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someoldguy  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, September 8, 2021 11:24:32 AM(UTC)
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I met one person who was already an 11, they gave her 10/4 instead of the original 10/3 offer. But another guy had been a 12 and they gave him GG10 step 00 which is a DCIPS thing that got him close to where he was previous.y. Check out the other thread about the guy who did a nice job negotiating.

I don't think you will get any language pay unless you get to 2+/2+ on the DLPT (plus an oral proficiency interview). BUT if you get a 1+/1+ (I think) you will qualify for language training... assuming your office supports it.
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MissyP  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, September 8, 2021 12:27:12 PM(UTC)
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Thank you. I decided I will still try the language route since I tested 3/2+ on my first language just the other languages are 2/2s. I will also generally ask what can be done as my CJO is a 10/10, if I don’t promote back to 11 the next year I won’t even get a step increase as I’m already maxed out.
MissyP  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, September 8, 2021 12:29:19 PM(UTC)
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Thank you! I will try that!
Kaliino  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, September 8, 2021 10:48:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DynamicST Go to Quoted Post
My CJO included two qualified positions, in two different career specialties. One a 10/3, and the other a 11/7 with a surprisingly strong recruitment incentive. I was informed that I have received a bid, and will be receiving my FJO soon. The bid is in the career specialty that lists the 10/3. The office lines up perfectly with my educational expertise, which was valued in the other specialty at the 11/7. Do I have a leg to stand on here to negotiate with that in mind? I intend to ask for more than the 10/3 if that is all that is offered, but I am uncertain what is actually realistic in this sense. I am considering asking for a flat 11/7 match, or at the least a few additional steps to close the gap between the offers. I know that the 11/7 carried the higher rate due to it's specific career specialty, so I'm unsure if there is room to leverage that offer at all. Either way, I am not going to turn down the offer to wait for the higher one, as Im excited to take the position.

There are two fundamental things you and every other prospective DIA employee needs to understand: 1) there are no hard rules regarding a new hire's starting salary and 2) the only significance of Career Specialty is determined by promotion potential. While most new hires enter between GG-07 and GG-10, all DIA billets have a minimum pay-grade cap of GG-11. This means there is little to no difference in regards to performance expectations for a GG-07 and GG-10 since they're all sorted into a GG-11 billet. The reason why DIA refuses to start all new hires as GG-11 is due to the two-year probation period. Ideally, a new hire will start at an "entry level" and then be rewarded to GG-11 as "full-time employees" after probation is completed. Unfortunately, the promotion system of DIA is incredibly obnoxious and it's very common for employees to be denied promotion even if their supervisor recommends them as a "must promote".

I have also personally witnessed new hires starting at GG-11, which normally occurs for individuals with graduate degrees or substantial work experience (i.e. O-3 in the Reserves/National Guard). While a conditional job offer (CJO) will include a starting pay-grade, the hiring managers who "bid" on cleared DIA candidates have the authority to amend this decision. Therefore, you can be presented with a GG-10 CJO, but receive a GG-11 final job offer (FJO) if the hiring manager believes you deserve it. Hiring managers are not obligated to contact cleared DIA candidates before selecting them, but the better ones will in order to identify which candidate is best suited for the position. If you are ever contacted by a hiring manager, I recommend doing whatever you can to impress them.

If you are contacted by a hiring manager (who will be your actual supervisor if hired), you will still need to wait on a representative from the Office of Human Resources (OHR). Hiring managers can only select candidates, but OHR is responsible for processing the issuance of a FJO. This process, on average, takes about one month between a hiring manager's decision to hire you and OHR emailing you the FJO. It is also possible that the FJO you receive will be different than your CJO in regards to the Career Specialty. DIA candidates are sorted by Career Field in the cleared hiring pool, which means everyone has the potential to receive "bids" from all Career Specialties.

Career Specialties have caused much confusion in the past, since each are rather distinct (i.e. Military Analyst vs. Counterintelligence Analyst). Both of these positions conduct intelligence analysis, but will often work in completely different directorates or offices. Once hired, you can apply to change your Career Specialty once per year, but doing so will impact your ability to obtain promotion. For example, CI analysts compete against other CI analysts for promotion, not all analysts within DIA. Each Career Field and Career Specialty has an arbitrary amount of promotion selections each year, which is why employees will often elect to change in order to improve their chances of receiving a promotion.

The final point of consideration is that having prior experience as a GS-13 or any pay-grade higher than your starting DIA pay-grade has no impact on your promotion potential in DIA. During my time at DIA, I witnessed countless examples of employees transitioning to DIA and ultimately losing a substantial amount of their former salaries. To make matters worse, these same individuals who have proven themselves in other organizations have been denied promotion within DIA. As you can imagine, this has pissed off a lot of DIA's workforce, especially since denials for promotion are never explained, which means the employees denied have no idea what to change or improve in order to get promoted in the future.

If you are currently working in a position with a decent salary, think twice before you accept employment at DIA. If you are currently a government employee and are curious about transitioning to DIA, consider applying for a Joint Duty Assignment (JDA) instead. If you have received two CJOs and prefer one over the other, wait for a FJO with the Career Specialty or pay-grade that you prefer. While in the cleared hiring pool, you have a lot more opportunities to determine your first two years in DIA than you would from simply accepting the first FJO received. Otherwise, you will be putting yourself at the mercy of an agency that has little to no interest in helping you achieve the professional and financial growth you desire.

Edited by user Wednesday, September 8, 2021 10:49:11 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 2 users thanked Kaliino for this useful post.
rebels8 on 9/9/2021(UTC), Duck on 10/1/2021(UTC)
someoldguy  
#25 Posted : Thursday, September 9, 2021 12:14:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kaliino Go to Quoted Post
While most new hires enter between GG-07 and GG-10, all DIA billets have a minimum pay-grade cap of GG-11. This means there is little to no difference in regards to performance expectations for a GG-07 and GG-10 since they're all sorted into a GG-11 billet. The reason why DIA refuses to start all new hires as GG-11 is due to the two-year probation period. Ideally, a new hire will start at an "entry level" and then be rewarded to GG-11 as "full-time employees" after probation is completed.
I noticed that some of the "hiring events" did list the max grade as 11 for certain career fields. Have not seen any hiring events lately (not that I have been looking that often) so I don't know if this is still continuing.

Kali, there was an announcement on the diajobs-dot-gov web site a couple months back for a case officer... you should have jumped at it. Or maybe you did...

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rebels8 on 9/9/2021(UTC)
someoldguy  
#26 Posted : Wednesday, September 22, 2021 12:14:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DynamicST Go to Quoted Post
Career speciality is not the same as the career field staff told me my bid was in, and grade/step (9/4) is considerably lower than even the lowest offer on my CJO. I received my CJO with a 10/3 and a 11/7, how can they offer LESS than what was originally offered?
HR can do whatever they want. Hopefully this is just a screwup.

I'd try sending them back the CJO and say, cough up the 10/3 (at the very least) or find another sucker.

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someoldguy  
#27 Posted : Friday, October 1, 2021 7:49:09 PM(UTC)
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Taking a pay cut to go from contractor to government employee is one thing, but doing it for a job that doesn't sound like a good fit or a particularly exciting job is something else entirely. Add in the cost of the PCS and the uncertainty of promotions and it does not sound good. Sounds like you are in a good position to take a pass on this one and keep looking for another opportunity.
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Duck on 10/1/2021(UTC)
DynamicST  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, October 12, 2021 1:19:39 PM(UTC)
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How long did it take for you guys to negotiate your starting step/incentive?

Going on a few weeks of not hearing anything after submitting my requests and starting to worry.
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