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Concernedcitizen44  
#1 Posted : Thursday, September 9, 2021 5:19:50 PM(UTC)
Concernedcitizen44

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Hello

I’ve heard a GS12 can apply to a position as a GS14 if the announcement is open to all US citizens, and that non federal service prior to becoming a GS can be used t qualify at the 14 level.

My question is, can a 12 be selected for a 14 vacancy without announcing the position if there is an OPM direct hire authority?

Thanks
CC
0018 Hopeful  
#2 Posted : Saturday, September 11, 2021 1:37:08 PM(UTC)
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Yes, but GS-14 is normally a manager of large programs or a manager of large amounts of money.

If you qualified on either one of those, then yes.

Say if you were a LCDR/Major in the military then you might qualify, but if you were a CDR/LTCOL or above then yes ideally you would.

Your experience would have to be direct.

I know of a couple of E9's that got GS-15 jobs without any other experience and no one questioned it. But most E9's get hired as GS-9 or GS-11.

A PHD would not qualify you for a position, as that tops out as GS-11.

But a PHD managing large amounts of money or personnel would do it.

There are limits to what non-competative promotions can do. I am not an HR manager, but I have hired a lot of people. I don't know the exact limits of non-comp programs. Some are limited to GS-11 or GS-12.

The only 100% way to get to be a GS-14 is to be a GS-13 for 366 days.

Concernedcitizen44  
#3 Posted : Saturday, September 11, 2021 2:06:14 PM(UTC)
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Thank you, I was a CWO4 and the XO for a command of approximately 300 military. Also have two Masters degrees,
0018 Hopeful  
#4 Posted : Sunday, September 12, 2021 10:38:26 AM(UTC)
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You should qualify on the 300 people.

Education would only get you GS-9.

Rank would be really iffy at GS-13, it really depends on who the HR person handling it.

Would have to be a 100% US Citizens job posting.

Edited by user Sunday, September 12, 2021 10:47:54 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

GSBS  
#5 Posted : Sunday, September 12, 2021 11:07:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 0018 Hopeful Go to Quoted Post
You should qualify on the 300 people.

Education would only get you GS-9.

Rank would be really iffy at GS-13, it really depends on who the HR person handling it.

Would have to be a 100% US Citizens job posting.
2 Master’s degrees would only 'get you' a GS 9 position? Do you happen to know what 3 degrees might pay?

0018 Hopeful  
#6 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2021 7:54:03 AM(UTC)
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It doesn't matter how many degrees you have. It is more of what level the degrees are.

Saying that.....

I have known people that were PHD pharmicist that were hired as GS-7's outside of their career field in a laddered position.

I have known Lawyers (juris doctorate) that were hired as GS-12's with zero experience right out of college. Complete BULL PUCKY! Worst of all it was as federal agents, so they didn't have to play the 7-9-11-12 ladder game.

Currently for zero experience it works like this:

A Bachelors degree can come in as a GS-7
A Masters degree degree can come in as a GS-09
A PHD/MD/JD/DDS/DVM degree can come in as a GS-11

Experience trumps a degree, to be a GS-12 you have to have been a GS-11 for a year. I didn't have a degree until I was a GS-13. I was a GS 7 for 12 months, GS-9 for 18 months, GS-11 for 18 months, GS-12 for 28 months and am a GS-13 now.

Military ranks are not as lined up as everyone thinks they are.

Most people think that their military rank ties itself to a GS grade and vice versa. There is a document on military equivillencies for the way prisoner of war detainees are to be treated, and many people think that because the ranks are delineated there that these are the normal deliniations. But that is all it is POW treatment, not equivillents.


I know a E-6 Army guy that served as the defense attache of Namibia for 8 months. That is an O-6 job, the DATT left early for a family emergency and since Namibia is not really a big deal DIA left the slot open and gave it to the only other person in the attache office. His experience would equal that of an O-6.

I work with a GS-13 that is still in a supervisory slot as the IT director, but they turned his entire staff into contract. So he isn't actually supervising anyone. He isn't even the COR for the contract it is done by another local base 50 miles away.

Generally O-5/6 get hired at the GS-13/14/15/SES level. I know a LTCOL that got hired as a GS-11. His boss was an O-6 she got hired as a GS-13.

Experience is huge. You have to account for it in your resume.
frankgonzalez  
#7 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2021 8:19:19 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 0018 Hopeful Go to Quoted Post
Experience trumps a degree, to be a GS-12 you have to have been a GS-11 for a year. I didn't have a degree until I was a GS-13. I was a GS 7 for 12 months, GS-9 for 18 months, GS-11 for 18 months, GS-12 for 28 months and am a GS-13 now.

Military ranks are not as lined up as everyone thinks they are.

Most people think that their military rank ties itself to a GS grade and vice versa. There is a document on military equivillencies for the way prisoner of war detainees are to be treated, and many people think that because the ranks are delineated there that these are the normal deliniations. But that is all it is POW treatment, not equivillents.


I know a E-6 Army guy that served as the defense attache of Namibia for 8 months. That is an O-6 job, the DATT left early for a family emergency and since Namibia is not really a big deal DIA left the slot open and gave it to the only other person in the attache office. His experience would equal that of an O-6.

I work with a GS-13 that is still in a supervisory slot as the IT director, but they turned his entire staff into contract. So he isn't actually supervising anyone. He isn't even the COR for the contract it is done by another local base 50 miles away.

Generally O-5/6 get hired at the GS-13/14/15/SES level. I know a LTCOL that got hired as a GS-11. His boss was an O-6 she got hired as a GS-13.

Experience is huge. You have to account for it in your resume.
Yep...experience is the factor once you get past GS11. I'm a retired E6, got hired at GG12 after I retired from the military due to my experience. Now GS14 (and looking at GS15 positions) without anything more than a couple of CCAF Associate Degrees.

It all boils down to experience and getting it articulated in your resume.

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
GSBS  
#8 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2021 7:07:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 0018 Hopeful Go to Quoted Post
Experience trumps a degree, to be a GS-12 you have to have been a GS-11 for a year. I didn't have a degree until I was a GS-13. I was a GS 7 for 12 months, GS-9 for 18 months, GS-11 for 18 months, GS-12 for 28 months and am a GS-13 now.

Military ranks are not as lined up as everyone thinks they are.

Most people think that their military rank ties itself to a GS grade and vice versa. There is a document on military equivillencies for the way prisoner of war detainees are to be treated, and many people think that because the ranks are delineated there that these are the normal deliniations. But that is all it is POW treatment, not equivillents.


I know a E-6 Army guy that served as the defense attache of Namibia for 8 months. That is an O-6 job, the DATT left early for a family emergency and since Namibia is not really a big deal DIA left the slot open and gave it to the only other person in the attache office. His experience would equal that of an O-6.

I work with a GS-13 that is still in a supervisory slot as the IT director, but they turned his entire staff into contract. So he isn't actually supervising anyone. He isn't even the COR for the contract it is done by another local base 50 miles away.

Generally O-5/6 get hired at the GS-13/14/15/SES level. I know a LTCOL that got hired as a GS-11. His boss was an O-6 she got hired as a GS-13.

Experience is huge. You have to account for it in your resume.
Yep...experience is the factor once you get past GS11. I'm a retired E6, got hired at GG12 after I retired from the military due to my experience. Now GS14 (and looking at GS15 positions) without anything more than a couple of CCAF Associate Degrees.

It all boils down to experience and getting it articulated in your resume.

Yes, I was hired as a GS 11 based solely on experience as I had about 1 week of College, maybe it was a month. What about that Doctor, Dentist, Nurse... Don't they have specialized experience as well?

0018 Hopeful  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, September 14, 2021 12:15:13 PM(UTC)
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Yes if they actually have the experience that they would they would rate a higher gs rank.

Education only means certain things to certain people in certain Jobs.
We have a guy here that has 3Masters degrees think she’s the smartest person in the room. But she’s not qualified Professionally, so she is in an intern program.
0018 Hopeful  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, September 14, 2021 12:58:42 PM(UTC)
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Quantity of degrees is completely irrelevant.

Education only matters to gs-11.
GWPDA  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, September 14, 2021 5:35:49 PM(UTC)
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Except in scientific and professional positions as designated by OPM.
thanks 1 user thanked GWPDA for this useful post.
GSBS on 9/14/2021(UTC)
frankgonzalez  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, September 15, 2021 3:03:00 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: GWPDA Go to Quoted Post
Except in scientific and professional positions as designated by OPM.
At the higher levels, the degree is simply a requirement to be in the series (ie to be a Lawyer, you got to have the Law Degree and be a member of the bar. To be an engineer, you need an engineering degree). The level of degree is not usually a requirement. You can have B. Eng. degree and be a GS14 or 15 if you have the experience. You could have a PhD, and be stuck at GS11 or 12 due to a lack of experience outside of your educational research leading to your doctorate.

And, no degree is required to be in the SES. You may need it to fill a specialized position (ie if you are going to be the Chief Engineer, it is generally considered useful to have an SES with an Engineering degree), but not to simply be an SES.

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
0018 Hopeful  
#13 Posted : Thursday, September 16, 2021 5:05:45 AM(UTC)
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As much as I hate education, I feel as though at some point I am going to have to finish my masters to move up.

I also have professional licensure in my field for environmental sciences and safety which has resulted in me getting to GS-13.

There will be people that do not ever get there.

In my mind the best thing you can do for your career if you are in the bottom end of the GS realm is be willing to move. DC (yuck), Fort Bliss, White Sands, China Lake, Fort Greely, Alaska, the list is pretty big.

Remote locations, or major cities.

Small town America, and especially highly desirable places ie: Jackson, Wyoming, Bozeman, Montana, Missoula, Montana, Hawaii, Colorado Springs and so are always hard to get.
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