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weiyuhr  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, October 5, 2021 8:46:34 AM(UTC)

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I am a career fed with around 13 years of service. I have decided I am not getting the vaccine and most other avenues (religious exemption) will probably be denied. It is only a matter of time (within a few months) of when I will mostly likely be faced with termination.

Should I quit or should I just get terminated? Any choice "better" than the other?

I know if I never return to the feds I could apply for a deferred pension at 57 with reduction or 62, without one.

Any advice would be appreciated.

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govt2310 on 11/23/2021(UTC)
Endless Summer  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, October 5, 2021 9:16:36 AM(UTC)
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I can't imagine any benefit to resigning. It's not as though you're facing charges. Resigning has some real drawbacks and you can't even be sure they will terminate you or that it will be upheld.

Do not resign.
GSBS  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, October 5, 2021 10:34:54 AM(UTC)
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Get the damn Vaccine for the safety of the people you work and interact with. We don't care about you or your family, we care about us and our family
GRITS  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, October 5, 2021 1:03:27 PM(UTC)
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CptKirk  
#5 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:04:25 AM(UTC)
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If the vaccine worked then you have nothing to worry about. Many religious beliefs are against the use of aborted babies being injected into them and/or being tested on for this vaccine. In 2017 there was a great article (cited results) on how over 1/3 of all FDA approved vaccines being taken off the market for dangerous effects. If you feel comfortable with only 66% success rate then please get your vaccine that clearly is not working if you are afraid of someone that hasn't received it.
FatHappyCat  
#6 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:04:54 AM(UTC)
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I don't think getting terminated in this case would be seen as the usual 'bad' outcome. At the very least you should be able to collect unemployment; if you resigned, you would probably get nothing.
CptKirk  
#7 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:11:18 AM(UTC)
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Unfortunately you are not eligible for unemployment if fired.
Endless Summer  
#8 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:20:29 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CptKirk Go to Quoted Post
Unfortunately you are not eligible for unemployment if fired.


If you quit, you are ineligible unless you can prove misconduct by your employer. If you are fired you can collect unemployment unless you were fired "for cause" which kind of means you were guity of gross misconduct. I doubt that refusing the vaccine would be considered "gross misconduct"

But to answer the question you didn't ask, why don't you just claim a religious exemption? My agency has just released guidelines and anyone can request, no proof needed, the bar is very low. You don't need to prove you belong to an organized religion, just that you have closely held religious beiefs that prevent you from getting the vaccine.
CptKirk  
#9 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:32:04 AM(UTC)
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DoD guidelines state you are suspended immediately for 14 days without pay. This only pads your record for misconduct. Very few exemptions are being accepted. It's a lose lose situation. It's set in place to make you comply. Illegals coming across the border are treated better than hard working Americans.
Endless Summer  
#10 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:56:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CptKirk Go to Quoted Post
...Very few exemptions are being accepted. ...


That's not the case based on my experience. The guidance from our Washington office is that there is no proof required. Supervisors are instructed to forward all requests without delay and document to the applicant that their request has been received.

Nobody is going to ask you how many times you've been to church this year or test your knowlege of scripture. You're not going to have to pass a polygraph.

The operative phrase is "sincerely held religious belief, observance, or practice" you're reticence does not even have to be tied to a particular religion.
CptKirk  
#11 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:10:50 AM(UTC)
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I truly hope you are correct but the amount of cases already in EEOC for denials is astounding. Even one service member that joined the military with a religious exemption already in place was denied. I will post if any if us are approved or denied. They can't hide that.

As for unemployment...good luck in proving the govt wrong and how much is that going to cost you.
TheRealOrange  
#12 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:15:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Endless Summer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CptKirk Go to Quoted Post
...Very few exemptions are being accepted. ...


That's not the case based on my experience. The guidance from our Washington office is that there is no proof required. Supervisors are instructed to forward all requests without delay and document to the applicant that their request has been received.

Nobody is going to ask you how many times you've been to church this year or test your knowlege of scripture. You're not going to have to pass a polygraph.

The operative phrase is "sincerely held religious belief, observance, or practice" you're reticence does not even have to be tied to a particular religion.

Here is the latest government-wide guidance for all agencies on what should be asked of those seeking a religious exemption to the vaccine mandate:

1. Please describe the nature of your objection to the COVID-19 vaccination requirement.
2. Would complying with the COVID-19 vaccination requirement substantially burden your religious exercise? If so, please explain how.
3. How long have you held the religious belief underlying your objection?
4. Please describe whether, as an adult, you have received any vaccines against any other diseases (such as a flu vaccine or a tetanus vaccine) and, if so, what vaccine you most recently received and when, to the best of your recollection.
5. If you do not have a religious objection to the use of all vaccines, please explain why your objection is limited to particular vaccines.
6. If there are any other medicines or products that you do not use because of the religious belief underlying your objection, please identify them.
7. Please provide any additional information that you think may be helpful in reviewing your request.

https://fedsmith.com/202...eptions-vaccine-mandate/
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GWPDA on 10/25/2021(UTC)
Endless Summer  
#13 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:45:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TheRealOrange Go to Quoted Post
...
Here is the latest government-wide guidance for all agencies on what should be asked of those seeking a religious exemption to the vaccine mandate:

1. Please describe the nature of your objection to the COVID-19 vaccination requirement.
2. Would complying with the COVID-19 vaccination requirement substantially burden your religious exercise? If so, please explain how.
3. How long have you held the religious belief underlying your objection?
4. Please describe whether, as an adult, you have received any vaccines against any other diseases (such as a flu vaccine or a tetanus vaccine) and, if so, what vaccine you most recently received and when, to the best of your recollection.
5. If you do not have a religious objection to the use of all vaccines, please explain why your objection is limited to particular vaccines.
6. If there are any other medicines or products that you do not use because of the religious belief underlying your objection, please identify them.
7. Please provide any additional information that you think may be helpful in reviewing your request.

https://fedsmith.com/202...eptions-vaccine-mandate/


For the record, I'm fully vaccinated but I'd have no problem answering every one of those questions in a manner that supported my request for an exemption. A simple web search will give you all the answers that you need. Remember, it doesn't have to be a "mainstream" religion. It doesn't even have to be based on a particular religion at all, my reasons don't have to make sense to you, they just have to be sincerely held.

Also, the DOI form that was just sent out this morning(6508) lists the questions you posted, but also asks if the employee would consent to wearing a facemask and regular testing if the exemption is granted. Additionally, the guidance asks what accommodations the employee would accept or suggest to avoid exposure if they are not vaccinated.

Heck, I've refused jobs in states that use tax funds for programs I don't believe in. Now, prove that my answers are false...

Do you think the gov't is going to conduct an investigation into the privately held religious, moral, and ethical convictions of it's employees?

Active duty military are a completely different animal. We forfiet a lot of our rights and protections when we raise our right hand.
CptKirk  
#14 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:35:50 PM(UTC)
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So when you have a military member that originally enlisted with a religious exemption and now being booted can you explain. And yes it is an active case amongst others?
CptKirk  
#15 Posted : Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:38:18 PM(UTC)
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Ps the forms I filled out never asked one question about wearing a mask now about my ability to get tested weekly. I work for the DoD and never filled out any if these.
frankgonzalez  
#16 Posted : Monday, October 25, 2021 4:33:07 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CptKirk Go to Quoted Post
So when you have a military member that originally enlisted with a religious exemption and now being booted can you explain. And yes it is an active case amongst others?
A religious exemption to vaccines being allowed to join the military? I call BS if nothing further is provided (ie news article from a reputable news source - not OAN or similar). Being vaccinated is a safety factor in the military (hence the wide range of vaccinations we had to get, to include things like Anthrax), as one person getting sick takes out several others to take care of them, let alone the transmission vector to others, who even if they don't get deathly ill, can still be taken out of the fight, and so increase potential failures in the mission.

Also, while the bar to claim religious exemption is low (sincerely held belief is all that SCOTUS has defined it as), the bar to deny is also low (does it have more than a de minimus impact). While I expect many will be approved (subject to prevention requirements such as masking, social distancing and testing), there will be some that are denied due to the type and location of work done (such as medical operations, first responders, etc) as it will be more than a de minimus impact on the organization to allow the exemption.



You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
frankgonzalez  
#17 Posted : Monday, October 25, 2021 4:37:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CptKirk Go to Quoted Post
Ps the forms I filled out never asked one question about wearing a mask now about my ability to get tested weekly. I work for the DoD and never filled out any if these.
Those things will be part of the requirements if an exemption is granted. Don't need to ask if you are willing to do those, it will simply be "We grant your request on the condition the following occur. Failure to follow these protocols will result in your exemption being withdrawn or your removal from federal service."

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
GWPDA  
#18 Posted : Monday, October 25, 2021 6:16:58 AM(UTC)
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For anyone actually interested in current medical standards for military service (and by extension, service by civilians in the military), consult AR 40-501 ( https://armypubs.army.mi...3_AR40_501_FINAL_WEB.pdf) Army regs do not cover USMC, USAF or USN of course, but AR 40-501 should give a very strong hint about medical standards throughout the services.

Additionally,AR 40-562 gives the comprehensive regs concerning vaccinations and exemptions - again, an Army reg is Army specific, for both military and civilian service. Still, informative. https://armypubs.army.mi...DR_a/pdf/web/r40_562.pdf

Edited by user Monday, October 25, 2021 6:41:45 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

frankgonzalez  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, October 26, 2021 3:31:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: GWPDA Go to Quoted Post
For anyone actually interested in current medical standards for military service (and by extension, service by civilians in the military), consult AR 40-501 ( https://armypubs.army.mi...3_AR40_501_FINAL_WEB.pdf) Army regs do not cover USMC, USAF or USN of course, but AR 40-501 should give a very strong hint about medical standards throughout the services.

Additionally,AR 40-562 gives the comprehensive regs concerning vaccinations and exemptions - again, an Army reg is Army specific, for both military and civilian service. Still, informative. https://armypubs.army.mi...DR_a/pdf/web/r40_562.pdf
Your 2nd link provides references for the other services too...for example, it states the USAF does not grant religious waivers for vaccines (page 12).

Edited by user Tuesday, October 26, 2021 3:36:53 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
DroneBee  
#20 Posted : Friday, October 29, 2021 1:35:07 PM(UTC)

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Don't resign. If you are fired, you can get unemployment, can file a MSPB complaint, etc. If you resign you lose all rights. Also, there is TONS of discussion on exactly what the adverse actions are - you should just ride it out.
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