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Relocating

Are you considering relocating your federal career - either by your choice or by Uncle Sam? There are practical issues and concerns to think about when deciding whether or not to relocate. Others have done it while still others have not. This forum will allow for all to offer their insight, post their questions, and help each other out.

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Kristin  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, May 10, 2022 10:12:20 PM(UTC)
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Good Morning! I am an Oconus civilian employee of DoD. I have accepted a position with Commerce back stateside, which has relocation expenses included. DoD says that they will execute return rights orders to my home of record (VA) with an alternate location (CO), which is where my new position with Commerce is. Then, i will get a bill for the cost constructed difference in the total cost minus the cost of sending me to my home of record (which is DoD's responsible portion). Commerce says they have no way to reimburse me for that portion, and that the only way for me to get the PCS benefits from Virginia (HOR) to Colorado (new position) is to have DoD deliver my household goods to Virginia and then do a second/separate PCS from there. There are many problems with this, even if i go ahead and fly to Colorado as soon as i land in Virginia. For one, i don't have a home in Virginia to have my goods delivered. Commerce said they would look into the possibility of authorizing a storage unit for me in Virginia to have the household goods delivered to until I can have the packout from Virginia to Colorado scheduled. Aside from the complications of getting back and forth to receive HHG and then resend it, what moving company is going to accept HHG already boxed? They aren't. How will the unpack and repack at a storage facility? They can't. How much more will it cost Commerce to do a complete PCS move than it would have to simply pay the constructed cost difference of a move already in progress? A LOT. This is just not logical or feasible. There must be an answer and the Commerce Dept, because they don't deal with OCONUS to CONUS moves very often, isn't aware of how to handle it. They did encourage me to find info if I could and that they would look into it, so here i am hoping someone here has experience with this situation. The other alternative they gave me was simply to do the DoD return rights move to Colorado and I pay the constructed cost difference myself, out of pocket. That is not possible. Thanks for any help you can provide!
TheUnderverse15  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, May 11, 2022 6:51:19 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kristin Go to Quoted Post
Good Morning! I am an Oconus civilian employee of DoD. I have accepted a position with Commerce back stateside, which has relocation expenses included. DoD says that they will execute return rights orders to my home of record (VA) with an alternate location (CO), which is where my new position with Commerce is. Then, i will get a bill for the cost constructed difference in the total cost minus the cost of sending me to my home of record (which is DoD's responsible portion). Commerce says they have no way to reimburse me for that portion, and that the only way for me to get the PCS benefits from Virginia (HOR) to Colorado (new position) is to have DoD deliver my household goods to Virginia and then do a second/separate PCS from there. There are many problems with this, even if i go ahead and fly to Colorado as soon as i land in Virginia. For one, i don't have a home in Virginia to have my goods delivered. Commerce said they would look into the possibility of authorizing a storage unit for me in Virginia to have the household goods delivered to until I can have the packout from Virginia to Colorado scheduled. Aside from the complications of getting back and forth to receive HHG and then resend it, what moving company is going to accept HHG already boxed? They aren't. How will the unpack and repack at a storage facility? They can't. How much more will it cost Commerce to do a complete PCS move than it would have to simply pay the constructed cost difference of a move already in progress? A LOT. This is just not logical or feasible. There must be an answer and the Commerce Dept, because they don't deal with OCONUS to CONUS moves very often, isn't aware of how to handle it. They did encourage me to find info if I could and that they would look into it, so here i am hoping someone here has experience with this situation. The other alternative they gave me was simply to do the DoD return rights move to Colorado and I pay the constructed cost difference myself, out of pocket. That is not possible. Thanks for any help you can provide!


First time seeing something like that. Was this end of your tour duty or are you leaving before that or spent more than 1 year in that position? I took a position from DOD to DOE and never had any issue with PCS to location, well DOD consider best interest of government.
Kristin  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, May 11, 2022 9:18:26 PM(UTC)
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Thank you for your response! I am permanently stationed overseas with my current agency (been here over 7 years), and voluntarily accepted the new position with the Dept of Commerce. DoD gives me return rights to my home of record, and Commerce gives relocation PCS orders from my home of record to my new location. But Commerce doesn't know how to pick it up off the constructed cost of their portion of the direct move from overseas to the new duty location. This is the hang up.
TheUnderverse15  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, May 11, 2022 10:22:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kristin Go to Quoted Post
Thank you for your response! I am permanently stationed overseas with my current agency (been here over 7 years), and voluntarily accepted the new position with the Dept of Commerce. DoD gives me return rights to my home of record, and Commerce gives relocation PCS orders from my home of record to my new location. But Commerce doesn't know how to pick it up off the constructed cost of their portion of the direct move from overseas to the new duty location. This is the hang up.



Wow, actually that is very true. We had a colleague who took 15 equivalent at Commerce to MD area from Japan. He basically paid his own way out of there and offered to make up some of the cost via relocation incentive. Not even giving you a relocation incentive? Cold stuff...I also have saw where DOD screwed their own people by not shipping to new position, instead ship to Home of Record. Usually excuse is best interest of government. I mean you been there 7 years, even DOD could have foot bill if distance is shorter than new destination. Of course, it also depends on which DoD agency you work for.

Your situation is going to be a headache, if you have to resort to the HHG from VA to CO. Also assuming you have long term storage. There are some moving companies that will except after boxed. It actually lowers moving cost as the movers cant charge for packing services, especially if they were to move it to PODs or something like that.


Commerce doesn't have relocation incentive? Wondering if other experts out there dealt with? Commerce footing bill from VA to CO would be easier for them.
Kristin  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, May 11, 2022 10:28:14 PM(UTC)
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Hi, Thank you for your response! Yes, Commerce has relocation authorized from my home of record (VA) to Colorado (new position), but they don't know how to pay the constructed cost difference of DoD sending me and my things straight there. I don't have anywhere to send my things in Virginia as i haven't lived there recently, and it takes 90 days for the overseas shipment, so it's not practical to have things shipped to Virginia and then sent a second time. I'm afraid i'm going to get stuck paying the difference in the shipment cost, but more afraid that it could cost several thousands of dollars, and it shouldn't be necessary when i'm authorized PCS already. DoD told me that Commerce should be able to pay the difference, but Commerce isn't familiar with how to do it.
TheUnderverse15  
#6 Posted : Thursday, May 12, 2022 12:11:02 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kristin Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Thank you for your response! Yes, Commerce has relocation authorized from my home of record (VA) to Colorado (new position), but they don't know how to pay the constructed cost difference of DoD sending me and my things straight there. I don't have anywhere to send my things in Virginia as i haven't lived there recently, and it takes 90 days for the overseas shipment, so it's not practical to have things shipped to Virginia and then sent a second time. I'm afraid i'm going to get stuck paying the difference in the shipment cost, but more afraid that it could cost several thousands of dollars, and it shouldn't be necessary when i'm authorized PCS already. DoD told me that Commerce should be able to pay the difference, but Commerce isn't familiar with how to do it.


Has to be a way to take it up higher level than HRs located at commerce duty station. Commerce has to have relocation incentive where could give you lump sum in advance in lieu of pcs orders and billing. If that HR doesnt know how, sure can ask other HRs or HQ level for guidance.

Wait for FrankG to show up and comment about this issue.
frankgonzalez  
#7 Posted : Thursday, May 12, 2022 5:17:01 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TheUnderverse15 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kristin Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Thank you for your response! Yes, Commerce has relocation authorized from my home of record (VA) to Colorado (new position), but they don't know how to pay the constructed cost difference of DoD sending me and my things straight there. I don't have anywhere to send my things in Virginia as i haven't lived there recently, and it takes 90 days for the overseas shipment, so it's not practical to have things shipped to Virginia and then sent a second time. I'm afraid i'm going to get stuck paying the difference in the shipment cost, but more afraid that it could cost several thousands of dollars, and it shouldn't be necessary when i'm authorized PCS already. DoD told me that Commerce should be able to pay the difference, but Commerce isn't familiar with how to do it.


Has to be a way to take it up higher level than HRs located at commerce duty station. Commerce has to have relocation incentive where could give you lump sum in advance in lieu of pcs orders and billing. If that HR doesnt know how, sure can ask other HRs or HQ level for guidance.

Wait for FrankG to show up and comment about this issue.
Should be a simple MIPR action (method for transferring money from one federal entity to another) for Commerce to send the money to DoD. The finance folks from Commerce and DoD need to weigh in on the discussion with the HR folks you are dealing with. This is NOT the first time this has occurred for either of them (or at least I know this isn't the first time for DoD!!).

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
thanks 1 user thanked frankgonzalez for this useful post.
TheUnderverse15 on 5/12/2022(UTC)
Kristin  
#8 Posted : Thursday, May 12, 2022 12:33:35 PM(UTC)
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You won't believe what they are telling me now. Now they said that, not only can they not pay the constructed cost difference in the move from Virginia to Colorado, but if I decide to have DoD return me to Colorado rather than Virginia (HOR), at my own expense, that i will no longer be eligible for my other PCS requirements, ie; TQSA, storage of household goods, home purchase assistance, per diem and the rest. How could my shouldering the burden of the constructed cost portion of the move to go directly to Colorado mean that i forfeit my other entitlements??
0018 Hopeful  
#9 Posted : Thursday, May 12, 2022 1:11:25 PM(UTC)
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Because you stayed past 5 years.
TheUnderverse15  
#10 Posted : Thursday, May 12, 2022 2:24:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kristin Go to Quoted Post
You won't believe what they are telling me now. Now they said that, not only can they not pay the constructed cost difference in the move from Virginia to Colorado, but if I decide to have DoD return me to Colorado rather than Virginia (HOR), at my own expense, that i will no longer be eligible for my other PCS requirements, ie; TQSA, storage of household goods, home purchase assistance, per diem and the rest. How could my shouldering the burden of the constructed cost portion of the move to go directly to Colorado mean that i forfeit my other entitlements??


When you say they, you mean Dept of Commerce?
djp  
#11 Posted : Thursday, May 12, 2022 7:58:25 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Kristin Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Thank you for your response! Yes, Commerce has relocation authorized from my home of record (VA) to Colorado (new position), but they don't know how to pay the constructed cost difference of DoD sending me and my things straight there. I don't have anywhere to send my things in Virginia as i haven't lived there recently, and it takes 90 days for the overseas shipment, so it's not practical to have things shipped to Virginia and then sent a second time. I'm afraid i'm going to get stuck paying the difference in the shipment cost, but more afraid that it could cost several thousands of dollars, and it shouldn't be necessary when i'm authorized PCS already. DoD told me that Commerce should be able to pay the difference, but Commerce isn't familiar with how to do it.


If I am following you correctly..

You are overseas and want to return back so you have DOD PCS costs to return covered?

Commerce will give you Relocation to site in Colorado from Virginia.

Assuming these are true….

Have you asked commerce how they handle Covered moves? Do they go through DOD services or have some other contract?

I’d break this down to DOD return to storage site in Virginia as your new residence. Then they can do a box packing transfer, then do ship. The other option is you coordinate with an apartment fir a short term rental for them to unload then new company packs and loads.

Something else to think about…

Canyoustart this new job in DC area for a few months in order to get your stuff and then do the move to colorado after say 3-6 months on the new job?

You could also break up PCS cost prices into separate buckets that go under the different umbrellas.
TheUnderverse15  
#12 Posted : Thursday, May 12, 2022 9:22:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: djp Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kristin Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Thank you for your response! Yes, Commerce has relocation authorized from my home of record (VA) to Colorado (new position), but they don't know how to pay the constructed cost difference of DoD sending me and my things straight there. I don't have anywhere to send my things in Virginia as i haven't lived there recently, and it takes 90 days for the overseas shipment, so it's not practical to have things shipped to Virginia and then sent a second time. I'm afraid i'm going to get stuck paying the difference in the shipment cost, but more afraid that it could cost several thousands of dollars, and it shouldn't be necessary when i'm authorized PCS already. DoD told me that Commerce should be able to pay the difference, but Commerce isn't familiar with how to do it.


If I am following you correctly..

You are overseas and want to return back so you have DOD PCS costs to return covered?

Commerce will give you Relocation to site in Colorado from Virginia.

Assuming these are true….

Have you asked commerce how they handle Covered moves? Do they go through DOD services or have some other contract?

I’d break this down to DOD return to storage site in Virginia as your new residence. Then they can do a box packing transfer, then do ship. The other option is you coordinate with an apartment fir a short term rental for them to unload then new company packs and loads.

Something else to think about…

Canyoustart this new job in DC area for a few months in order to get your stuff and then do the move to colorado after say 3-6 months on the new job?

You could also break up PCS cost prices into separate buckets that go under the different umbrellas.


From what she is saying, Commerce is going to charge her offset for PCS move from VA to CO once it gets to VA from DOD. As confusing as it sounds. If she tries overseas to CO, Commerce not having that.
Kristin  
#13 Posted : Thursday, May 12, 2022 9:23:38 PM(UTC)
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Good Morning, All! I'm new here and don't know how to reply to individual posts so I will answer all here. Yes, I was talking about Commerce when I said that they told me that if I use my DoD return rights with an alternate return location, that I will not be able to have my other entitlements like TQSA.

The 5 year rule did not apply to me in my current position (excepted service), so that's not the reason that any of this is happening.

If I do have to have return orders to my HOR (Virginia), and then do a totally separate move to Colorado (which is what they are telling me) the suggestion to rent an airbnb or something temporarily for a week (as long as it has a garage) could be a good option that I had not considered, thank you for that! It still seems completely illogical and waste and abuse that the government (and me too!) would have to spend so much more just because they can't figure out how to do this. Even with having somewhere to unpack my goods (at my expense), I still have to take leave time to go and receive them and my car, drive back to Colorado, etc. Plus, whatever RITA doesn't cover with the move, I now have significantly higher move expenses that i've received.

Anyway, with only 2 1/2 weeks to go, I think I might be stuck.
TheUnderverse15  
#14 Posted : Friday, May 13, 2022 11:32:44 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kristin Go to Quoted Post
Good Morning, All! I'm new here and don't know how to reply to individual posts so I will answer all here. Yes, I was talking about Commerce when I said that they told me that if I use my DoD return rights with an alternate return location, that I will not be able to have my other entitlements like TQSA.

The 5 year rule did not apply to me in my current position (excepted service), so that's not the reason that any of this is happening.

If I do have to have return orders to my HOR (Virginia), and then do a totally separate move to Colorado (which is what they are telling me) the suggestion to rent an airbnb or something temporarily for a week (as long as it has a garage) could be a good option that I had not considered, thank you for that! It still seems completely illogical and waste and abuse that the government (and me too!) would have to spend so much more just because they can't figure out how to do this. Even with having somewhere to unpack my goods (at my expense), I still have to take leave time to go and receive them and my car, drive back to Colorado, etc. Plus, whatever RITA doesn't cover with the move, I now have significantly higher move expenses that i've received.

Anyway, with only 2 1/2 weeks to go, I think I might be stuck.


Sounds like a mess. You may have to do a plan B. Apply elsewhere with HR folks who understand how PCS moves work.

icanzz  
#15 Posted : Friday, May 13, 2022 4:47:58 PM(UTC)
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What the heck does return rights have to do with Transportation entitlements from DOD to Commerce?

If you applied for a postion and it has PCS entitlements, why is the gaining Agency (Colorado) simply not paying for the move from current location to new location? Why would DoD pay for return to CONUS and then Commerce pay?

Normally when you accept a postion that offer PCS entitlements you use Gaining agency entitlements, regardless if you some left over entitlement from losing agency.
djp  
#16 Posted : Friday, May 13, 2022 6:37:14 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Kristin Go to Quoted Post
Good Morning, All! I'm new here and don't know how to reply to individual posts so I will answer all here. Yes, I was talking about Commerce when I said that they told me that if I use my DoD return rights with an alternate return location, that I will not be able to have my other entitlements like TQSA.

The 5 year rule did not apply to me in my current position (excepted service), so that's not the reason that any of this is happening.

If I do have to have return orders to my HOR (Virginia), and then do a totally separate move to Colorado (which is what they are telling me) the suggestion to rent an airbnb or something temporarily for a week (as long as it has a garage) could be a good option that I had not considered, thank you for that! It still seems completely illogical and waste and abuse that the government (and me too!) would have to spend so much more just because they can't figure out how to do this. Even with having somewhere to unpack my goods (at my expense), I still have to take leave time to go and receive them and my car, drive back to Colorado, etc. Plus, whatever RITA doesn't cover with the move, I now have significantly higher move expenses that i've received.

Anyway, with only 2 1/2 weeks to go, I think I might be stuck.


On screen in the top right corner there is a quote box. On a smart phone/ iPad you might have to click in the post for it to appear in the top right.




The other uncertainty is how long will it take for stuff to even come bachpk to Virginia.

As I mentioned…what does commerce use? Do they do the contract work through DOD and their channels or do they have their own?

Knowing the size of your belongings youcan rent an extra large storage unit where you could return and unpack your things before the movers pack. What does the DOD say on mainland storage coverage time? 30 days? You can find out where storage is located like a private company so you can take over storage payments when DOD ends. These costs could get reimbursed by commerce in their moving allowance. The devil is in the details of the moving terms.

Do you have any furniture stateside?



icanzz  
#17 Posted : Saturday, May 14, 2022 5:42:08 PM(UTC)
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JTR 09/01/2021.

054912. Acceptable Reasons for Release from a Tour of Duty

C. Released to Continue Employment. A civilian employee, serving under a service agreement who transfers to another DoD Component or Agency, must be released from the tour of duty requirement in the civilian employee’s current agreement, unless transferring to another DoD Component within 12 months of reporting to the PDS on a PCS move (see par. 053706-A). If the transfer involves PCS allowances to a new PDS, the gaining activity is responsible for all PCS costs. The civilian employee must continue in Government service for at least 12 months after he or she reported at the PDS where departing to satisfy the obligation for costs incurred by the losing activity in moving the civilian employee to that PDS.
icanzz  
#18 Posted : Saturday, May 14, 2022 5:46:53 PM(UTC)
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JTR part "F" 09/21/2021 starts civilian section. 053713 Travel and Transportation Funding (FTR §302-2) begins explanation.

Find 053713A. Movement between Different Departments and Agencies or DoD Components. This applies to movement between any of the following: Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, DoD Components, and to or from non-DoD Agencies. Except in the case of a RIF, transfer of function, or movement under the DoD Priority Placement Program (PPP), costs associated with a PCS may be paid by the gaining Department, Agency, or DoD Component.
icanzz  
#19 Posted : Saturday, May 14, 2022 6:05:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kristin Go to Quoted Post
Good Morning! I am an Oconus civilian employee of DoD. I have accepted a position with Commerce back stateside, which has relocation expenses included. DoD says that they will execute return rights orders to my home of record (VA) with an alternate location (CO), which is where my new position with Commerce is. Then, i will get a bill for the cost constructed difference in the total cost minus the cost of sending me to my home of record (which is DoD's responsible portion). Commerce says they have no way to reimburse me for that portion, and that the only way for me to get the PCS benefits from Virginia (HOR) to Colorado (new position) is to have DoD deliver my household goods to Virginia and then do a second/separate PCS from there. There are many problems with this, even if i go ahead and fly to Colorado as soon as i land in Virginia. For one, i don't have a home in Virginia to have my goods delivered. Commerce said they would look into the possibility of authorizing a storage unit for me in Virginia to have the household goods delivered to until I can have the packout from Virginia to Colorado scheduled. Aside from the complications of getting back and forth to receive HHG and then resend it, what moving company is going to accept HHG already boxed? They aren't. How will the unpack and repack at a storage facility? They can't. How much more will it cost Commerce to do a complete PCS move than it would have to simply pay the constructed cost difference of a move already in progress? A LOT. This is just not logical or feasible. There must be an answer and the Commerce Dept, because they don't deal with OCONUS to CONUS moves very often, isn't aware of how to handle it. They did encourage me to find info if I could and that they would look into it, so here i am hoping someone here has experience with this situation. The other alternative they gave me was simply to do the DoD return rights move to Colorado and I pay the constructed cost difference myself, out of pocket. That is not possible. Thanks for any help you can provide!


This falls Under "Different Agencies"

JTR part "F" 09/21/2021 starts civilian section. 053713 Travel and Transportation Funding (FTR §302-2) begins explanation.

Find 053713A. Movement between Different Departments and Agencies or DoD Components. This applies to movement between any of the following: Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, DoD Components, and to or from non-DoD Agencies. Except in the case of a RIF, transfer of function, or movement under the DoD Priority Placement Program (PPP), costs associated with a PCS may be paid by the gaining Department, Agency, or DoD Component.

Constructive cost from HOR to new PDS only applies if moving under "Same" agency.

Edited by user Saturday, May 14, 2022 6:07:07 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Kristin  
#20 Posted : Sunday, May 15, 2022 10:48:49 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: icanzz Go to Quoted Post
What the heck does return rights have to do with Transportation entitlements from DOD to Commerce?

If you applied for a postion and it has PCS entitlements, why is the gaining Agency (Colorado) simply not paying for the move from current location to new location? Why would DoD pay for return to CONUS and then Commerce pay?

Normally when you accept a postion that offer PCS entitlements you use Gaining agency entitlements, regardless if you some left over entitlement from losing agency.


Thank you for your reply! The receiving agency does not pay from current duty location if that location is OCONUS. The existing agency of OCONUS assignments holds a transportation agreement with the employee and is always responsible for moving the employee back to CONUS before a re-stationing occurs.
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