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Kaliino  
#1941 Posted : Wednesday, July 27, 2022 11:37:59 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: champion76 Go to Quoted Post
The person offered me two specific jobs at two different COCOMS. They made it sound like, given my background, these two offices were interested in me. As in these offices saw my resume and put a bid on me. They gave me 2 hours to make a decision because they then needed to contact the #2 choice for the office I did not choose. I contacted them since then about this exact question, they simply said that now it's in HR's hands and could not give me a time frame.

I'm confused. You were told by someone (probably OHR) that two CCMDs were interested in you and asked for you to select the one you wanted. What were the two CCMDs and which one did you choose? The fact that neither CCMD contacted you directly is a bad sign, but in general, some CCMDs are better than others for various reasons. Since you asked this exact question and they replied with "it's in OHR's hands" implies that this individual wasn't OHR, which makes this whole situation even more ridiculous. DIA has clearly not improved their on-boarding system over the years.

The only way this makes sense to me is if the individual who contacted you was a hiring manager for one of the two CCMDs and they were playing a game to see if you were interested in the one they actually represented. The two hour decision window is very suspicious as well. No pressure like that is necessary. Most candidates receive at least a week to decide whether or not they want to accept a FJO or reject it and return to the cleared hiring pool. If you selected the "right" CCMD, then this individual would have contacted OHR, requesting for them to process your FJO. However, if you selected the "wrong" CCMD, then they would have just contacted another cleared candidate to play the game all over again.

Edited by user Wednesday, July 27, 2022 11:44:06 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

champion76  
#1942 Posted : Wednesday, July 27, 2022 12:02:58 PM(UTC)
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Thank you for your help here.

I think you just found it.

The two COCOMS were SOCOM and STRATCOM, and specific jobs at those COCOMS. The person who called me (and has been my POC via email) is a "Senior Intelligence Office for Talent Acquisition" at STRATCOM. I did NOT choose STRATCOM.

I chose SOCOM.

This was a verbal offer. The person said they would send my decision to HR and I would receive a formal FJO with salary and such at some point.

So are you saying that maybe SOCOM wasn't even a real option?

Edited by user Wednesday, July 27, 2022 12:05:32 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Kaliino  
#1943 Posted : Wednesday, July 27, 2022 12:10:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: champion76 Go to Quoted Post
Thank you for your help here. I think you just found it. The two COCOMS were SOCOM and STRATCOM, and specific jobs at those COCOMS. The person who called me (and has been my POC via email) is a "Senior Intelligence Office for Talent Acquisition" at STRATCOM. I did NOT choose STRATCOM. I chose SOCOM. This was a verbal offer. The person said they would send my decision to HR and I would receive a formal FJO with salary and such at some point.

Excellent choice. However, I'm still concerned since no proof of SOCOM being interested in you was delivered. The U.S. Intelligence Community is very small and it's very common for individuals in one CCMD to know those in another, so it's possible that this SIO knows their counterpart in SOCOM. Unfortunately, it's also possible that it was a ruse. There is enough negativity on this forum though, so let's just assume you'll receive your FJO from OHR momentarily with at least a starting salary of GG-11. Let us know when/if you ever receive your SOCOM FJO. Surely, there are folks lurking in the shadows of this forum who would appreciate evidence that OHR is actually doing their job.

Edited by user Wednesday, July 27, 2022 12:14:18 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

champion76  
#1944 Posted : Wednesday, July 27, 2022 12:17:07 PM(UTC)
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Kaliino, thank you for your insight. I was lurking until about two hours ago lol. I will let you all know if I get anything.

Edited by user Wednesday, July 27, 2022 1:31:57 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

champion76  
#1945 Posted : Tuesday, August 2, 2022 9:10:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kaliino Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: champion76 Go to Quoted Post

The only way this makes sense to me is if the individual who contacted you was a hiring manager for one of the two CCMDs and they were playing a game to see if you were interested in the one they actually represented. The two hour decision window is very suspicious as well. No pressure like that is necessary. Most candidates receive at least a week to decide whether or not they want to accept a FJO or reject it and return to the cleared hiring pool. If you selected the "right" CCMD, then this individual would have contacted OHR, requesting for them to process your FJO. However, if you selected the "wrong" CCMD, then they would have just contacted another cleared candidate to play the game all over again.



I've thought about this some more. Why would they play this game? What purpose does it serve? What am I missing?
Kaliino  
#1946 Posted : Tuesday, August 2, 2022 7:02:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: champion76 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kaliino Go to Quoted Post
The only way this makes sense to me is if the individual who contacted you was a hiring manager for one of the two CCMDs and they were playing a game to see if you were interested in the one they actually represented. The two hour decision window is very suspicious as well. No pressure like that is necessary. Most candidates receive at least a week to decide whether or not they want to accept a FJO or reject it and return to the cleared hiring pool. If you selected the "right" CCMD, then this individual would have contacted OHR, requesting for them to process your FJO. However, if you selected the "wrong" CCMD, then they would have just contacted another cleared candidate to play the game all over again.

I've thought about this some more. Why would they play this game? What purpose does it serve? What am I missing?

I asked myself those exact questions every day while I worked at DIA. The only conclusion I found is that some people are just dicks. Sometimes, I think people forget that just because you are looking for a job and/or career, that doesn't mean anyone else will care. For example, I worked in multiple teams that were composed of six to 12 people. Each individual within those teams had their own assigned tasks and responsibilities, but in reality... only two to four people total were necessary to accomplish all tasks within the allotted time. Therefore, what inevitably happens is that a minority of the team will do the majority of the work while the other team members dick around, drink coffee, go smoke, and chatter in the hallways.

Yes, this is a complete waste of time and resources, which is why those of us who worked for a living completely resented the majority of our colleagues, who did absolutely nothing. The worst part is that this behavior becomes more common, the higher pay-grade employees become. I have never understood the logic behind paying someone substantially more for "supervising" individuals who actually work. None of my DIA supervisors contributed anything, besides approving their subordinates' timesheets, and most of the time they couldn't manage to do that on time. Most of my DIA supervisors didn't know what their subordinates were even working on, unless such information was volunteered by the subordinate.

With all of that in mind... it's entirely possible that whoever contacted you was told to do so by someone they did not respect. I have witnessed, on multiple occasions, hiring managers contact cleared candidates under the direction of their superiors while giving zero *****s if that vacant billet ever becomes filled. What happens when you give a branch chief six billets, but all work is already being done "to standard" with only two people? What happens when that branch chief selects a cleared candidate, but it takes human resources months to process all of the paperwork so that they can actually start working? Well... one thing that happens is that supervisors (aka hiring managers) stop giving a ***** and then move on with their day.

Since you were contacted by someone who claimed to be STRATCOM and told them that you were only interested in SOCOM, that individual has zero incentive to help you at all. Yes, they could have written down your response, emailed it to their SOCOM counterpart, and went back to finding someone who was interested in working at STRATCOM. However, they could have also walked away and grabbed a donut and did whatever people in Nebraska do for fun. "United States Strategic Command (USSTRATCOM) is one of the eleven unified combatant commands in the United States Department of Defense. Headquartered at Offutt Air Force Base, Nebraska, USSTRATCOM is responsible for strategic nuclear deterrence, global strike, and operating the Defense Department's Global Information Grid." It is safe to assume that DIA officers who work there aren't the most engaged, due to the fact that nuclear warfare remains a minimal threat, despite the active attempts by our government to provoke our adversaries.

SOCOM isn't much better, since it's actually the theater special operations commands (SOCCENT) within the geographic combatant commands (CENTCOM) that are actually responsible for the operational management of U.S. special operations forces, but it wins by default for not being located in Nebraska. Functional combatant commands will always be considered second-class citizens, because they're considered "support". Now imagine being an intel weenie (also support) within a support command. SPOILER ALERT: your impact will be minimal in a defense-related situation (i.e. Russia invades Ukraine). Overall, the DIA is not even close to being as important as it should be, in regards to being the "premier producer of military intelligence". This reality should bother everyone on this forum. It's sad when you realize that a pizza delivery guy has more impact than you.

Then again... working for the DIA sounds "cool" to the uninitiated. Maybe that is enough to ignore all of these problems.

Edited by user Tuesday, August 2, 2022 11:00:45 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

champion76  
#1947 Posted : Wednesday, August 3, 2022 11:56:15 AM(UTC)
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Damn... and to think I was willing to take a significant pay cut for this job.

Thanks for such a detailed response. I'm honestly just taken back by this whole process. I was actually so excited about the position. Not so much anymore.

someoldguy  
#1948 Posted : Wednesday, August 3, 2022 2:09:43 PM(UTC)
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Let me provide a bit of a counterpoint to dear old Kali...

DIA is willing to hire people off the street, clear them, give them some training, give them some experience, and pay them in the process. Yes many people become frustrated, but others have a positive experience. In some cases, those positive experiences occur after they leave DIA, but those opportunities may not have otherwise been available without that first step.

I'm having a hard time following the thread, not sure if you have accepted an offer yet or where it is, but if you do go to SOCOM then you may be able to take advantage of opportunities down the street at CENTCOM J2 and maybe not so far away down at SOUTHCOM. You may find opportunities at other agencies or even contractor jobs.

And yes there are those who find they like it very much and manage to find opportunities to grow and advance. From reading these forums, you have no doubt learned that they don't necessarily make it easy to take advantage of such opportunities but they are out there.

I too took a significant pay cut to join DIA but I've managed to recoup much of it, though by no means all.

Kali does make some good points in his various rants but he is not exactly a member of the DIA fan club (in case you hadn't noticed).
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champion76  
#1949 Posted : Wednesday, August 3, 2022 6:23:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
Let me provide a bit of a counterpoint to dear old Kali...

DIA is willing to hire people off the street, clear them, give them some training, give them some experience, and pay them in the process. Yes many people become frustrated, but others have a positive experience. In some cases, those positive experiences occur after they leave DIA, but those opportunities may not have otherwise been available without that first step.

I'm having a hard time following the thread, not sure if you have accepted an offer yet or where it is, but if you do go to SOCOM then you may be able to take advantage of opportunities down the street at CENTCOM J2 and maybe not so far away down at SOUTHCOM. You may find opportunities at other agencies or even contractor jobs.

And yes there are those who find they like it very much and manage to find opportunities to grow and advance. From reading these forums, you have no doubt learned that they don't necessarily make it easy to take advantage of such opportunities but they are out there.

I too took a significant pay cut to join DIA but I've managed to recoup much of it, though by no means all.

Kali does make some good points in his various rants but he is not exactly a member of the DIA fan club (in case you hadn't noticed).




That's a fair point and I appreciate the input.

To clarify what happened in case you have some insight.

In May (maybe April) I (and I assume everyone else in the process) received a long email reassuring us that we have not been forgotten about and to contact this person with any questions. So, I contacted this person about my clearance (I won't go into that cluster ****) and then I was cleared hours later. Essentially my file got "stuck" at HR. This person's email signature indicates that they work at STRATCOM.


That same person called me the next week with two verbal offers. One from STRATCOM and one from SOCOM. When asked how long I can take to consider, the person from STRATCOM told me 2 hours. I called back and chose SOCOM. Three weeks later, still hearing nothing back, I emailed the same person and they told me that it's in HR's hands so they (s/he) don't know how long it will take them (HR) to get my official FJO.

It's now been 7 weeks. I understand some might say, it's the IC, you just gotta wait. But my lease is ending soon so I need some answers before I sign another 12-month commitment. I can't afford to pay the break-lease penalty... not for what DIA is paying me LOL
Kaliino  
#1950 Posted : Wednesday, August 3, 2022 10:38:05 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: champion76 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: champion76 Go to Quoted Post
Damn... and to think I was willing to take a significant pay cut for this job. Thanks for such a detailed response. I'm honestly just taken back by this whole process. I was actually so excited about the position. Not so much anymore.

Let me provide a bit of a counterpoint to dear old Kali...

DIA is willing to hire people off the street, clear them, give them some training, give them some experience, and pay them in the process. Yes many people become frustrated, but others have a positive experience. In some cases, those positive experiences occur after they leave DIA, but those opportunities may not have otherwise been available without that first step.

I'm having a hard time following the thread, not sure if you have accepted an offer yet or where it is, but if you do go to SOCOM then you may be able to take advantage of opportunities down the street at CENTCOM J2 and maybe not so far away down at SOUTHCOM. You may find opportunities at other agencies or even contractor jobs.

And yes there are those who find they like it very much and manage to find opportunities to grow and advance. From reading these forums, you have no doubt learned that they don't necessarily make it easy to take advantage of such opportunities but they are out there.

I too took a significant pay cut to join DIA but I've managed to recoup much of it, though by no means all.

Kali does make some good points in his various rants but he is not exactly a member of the DIA fan club (in case you hadn't noticed).

That's a fair point and I appreciate the input.

To clarify what happened in case you have some insight.

In May (maybe April) I (and I assume everyone else in the process) received a long email reassuring us that we have not been forgotten about and to contact this person with any questions. So, I contacted this person about my clearance (I won't go into that cluster ****) and then I was cleared hours later. Essentially my file got "stuck" at HR. This person's email signature indicates that they work at STRATCOM.

That same person called me the next week with two verbal offers. One from STRATCOM and one from SOCOM. When asked how long I can take to consider, the person from STRATCOM told me 2 hours. I called back and chose SOCOM. Three weeks later, still hearing nothing back, I emailed the same person and they told me that it's in HR's hands so they (s/he) don't know how long it will take them (HR) to get my official FJO.

It's now been 7 weeks. I understand some might say, it's the IC, you just gotta wait. But my lease is ending soon so I need some answers before I sign another 12-month commitment. I can't afford to pay the break-lease penalty... not for what DIA is paying me LOL

I would argue that any situation, especially if it's disappointing or traumatic, can contribute to positive experiences in the future. However, it's not exactly wise to attribute toxic or hostile working conditions with personal growth or professional development. For example, I began working at the DIA after I had already acquired years of professional and life experience, in addition to the fundamental education required for all federal employees. This caused me to see through a lot of the intrigue and mysticism that anyone else would have encountered if they knew literally nothing about adulthood or the world. To a 22 year old, fresh out of college, who worked in the service industry (earning minimum wage)... receiving a FJO as a GG-09 Intelligence Officer, within one of the four national-level intelligence agencies responsible for the production of the President's Daily Brief, might be the best moment of their life. To a 30 year old me, who has already seen how blatant government incompetence continuously degrades the lives and future of foreign and domestic populations... receiving that FJO from the DIA did not achieve the same effect.

In theory, people apply for employment with the U.S. Intelligence Community for different reasons than they would apply to any other industry. Their mission is relatively unique, compared to all other opportunities available elsewhere (i.e. McDonald's). Why do people want to become Intelligence Officers? What does an Intelligence Officer produce? Well... they're supposed to produce information that has been evaluated and validated in order to provide senior decision-makers with the knowledge necessary to protect and empower the United States. The stakes are a bit higher than if you sold shoes at the local mall. Therefore, the performance standards for an Intelligence Officer should also be a bit higher... since *****ing up a report or briefing could influence the decisions made by individuals who "trust" that you are a responsible professional who knows what you're doing. This is the thought process I entered the DIA with and it was proven almost immediately that I had "unreasonable" expectations. That is my way of saying that the first day I walked into DIA HQ to attend Touchstone and donned my illustrious blue badge... I was told to sit down and to shut the ***** up.

Having previously served in the U.S. military, this "leadership" approach was not new, but it was relatively irksome since I had decided to leave the military due to the failures that result from giving unquestionable authority to unsuitable, inexperienced, and unmotivated individuals. If you're stationed at Fort Bragg and someone of a higher rank tells you to do something stupid, you do it... and nothing really happens. If you're deployed to a combat zone and someone of a higher rank tells you to do something stupid, you do it... and a lot may and most likely will happen. If you're assigned to DIA HQ and someone of a higher "rank" (your supervisor can be military or civilian) tells you to do something stupid, you do it... and even more could happen. In the military, I operated at the "tactical" level, which is code for people can die from mistakes, but it wouldn't impact the Global War on Terror. In the DIA, or any other national-level intelligence agency, I operated at the "strategic" level, which is code for failure to develop and exercise a contingency plan, regarding the national spread of a viral pandemic, can and will result in a systemic political, economic, and social crisis.

The COVID-19 pandemic was the final push I needed to realize that my association with the U.S. Intelligence Community was completely irrelevant. No one knew what they were doing. No one was prepared. The majority didn't even understand what was happening. Then the decision was made for damn near every DIA employee to just stay home and to watch the chaos continue to grow online, with a freshly baked bag of buttered popcorn. I think Justin Long in the movie, Live Free or Die Hard (2007), said it best... "it took FEMA five days to get water to the Superdome." The reason I was never comfortable working at the DIA is because I would often ask "why?", regarding various topics encountered on a daily basis. Why can the DIA not effectively achieve the objectives assigned to it? Why has no one aggregated organizational weaknesses and implemented solutions designed to mitigate or completely remove them? Why does the DIA exist when both the military and other intelligence agencies produce better products? As you can image, the majority of the DIA workforce did not appreciate these questions and concluded that it would be easier to label me as "disruptive" than to address the problems and provide a positive impact to our national security and to the welfare of our international partners.

So... now we get to discuss and deliberate on why someone (you) would take a pay-cut, potentially change their entire life (and their family's lives), and most likely encounter the same issues that I and countless others have during their employment with the DIA. Where's the appeal? A TS/SCI security clearance. Alright. In what situation is having said clearance valuable? Well... they're required for many federal government positions and private sector positions, which hold contracts with the federal government. You get to read, write, and disseminate classified information to "important" people. Alright. In what situation is classified information valuable? Well... it might surprise you to learn that the only difference between me saying "Ukraine is at risk of being invaded by Russia" and that same sentence being classified is when it is directly associated with an intelligence requirement (arbitrary assembly of letters and numbers). It would take volumes to dive into my problems with the concept of the intelligence requirement, but the point is... I can tell you that Ukraine has been at risk of being invaded by Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union. However, if Sergei the Russian military attaché in Prague tells a DIA officer that same information and it is then included in an internal report, then it becomes "classified" and the "unauthorized" release of that document to the public will be deemed treason. Do you see the logical discrepancy?

Why else would you want to work for the DIA? Salary, benefits, retirement. Alright. Well, you already admitted that accepting a FJO with them would result in less money, so scratch that off the list. What benefits are received? Four hours of sick leave per pay period. Approximately one month of paid vacation time every year, which will expire if not used. Health, dental, and life insurance. Subjective. If you earn more money you can afford better insurance plans. Retirement. The Federal Employmees Retirement System (FERS) is a three-part sandwich: (1) Basic Benefit Plan (annuity), (2) Social Security, and (3) Thrift Savings Plan (TSP). Every American citizen, who pays their taxes, is eligible to receive Social Security benefits when they're already too old to need them. They have also said that Social Security will die off for about two decades already, so who knows if you'll actually receive it by the time you're eligible. The TSP is code for a standard 401k retirement supplement, available in the private sector. Annuities are the devil and should never be invested in; unfortunately, you're obligated to bleed money into it when employed by the federal government.

Why else would you want to work for the DIA?

Edited by user Thursday, August 4, 2022 12:13:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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someoldguy  
#1951 Posted : Thursday, August 4, 2022 11:09:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: champion76 Go to Quoted Post
It's now been 7 weeks. I understand some might say, it's the IC, you just gotta wait.
Thanks for the update!

Well, yes, it is the IC and also the government in general, but seven weeks sounds a bit longer than usual. Yes, HR does have to decide that SOCOM is 'worthy' to hire you... I've heard of cases where one office wanted to make an offer but another office was a higher priority for some reason... but if that were the case I would think you would have heard from the other office by now.

And even if you had said yes to STRATCOM within two hours, you'd probably still be waiting seven weeks.
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P55CSec  
#1952 Posted : Thursday, August 4, 2022 4:01:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post


Well, yes, it is the IC and also the government in general, but seven weeks sounds a bit longer than usual.


Does this HR/Hiring Manager/FJO song and dance get any better after you're a real, badge-beeping employee? Will applying to other positions internally be more 'normal' as in having a responsive hiring process or is it just as messed up as it is for applicants on the outside?

Edited by user Thursday, August 4, 2022 4:08:33 PM(UTC)  | Reason: spelling

Kaliino  
#1953 Posted : Thursday, August 4, 2022 7:47:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: P55CSec Go to Quoted Post
Does this HR/Hiring Manager/FJO song and dance get any better after you're a real, badge-beeping employee? Will applying to other positions internally be more 'normal' as in having a responsive hiring process or is it just as messed up as it is for applicants on the outside?

The best way I can answer your question is with a little story...

Once upon a time... there was a targeting officer, who hated his life, and attempted to use the internal job hop system to apply for a new position, flee from the horrors of DIA HQ, and experience life in a big dick combatant command. A month or two later, this targeting officer's job application was accepted by the combatant command, and then the hiring manager contacted human resources to continue the bureaucracy. The targeting officer was excited. He was going to Europe to dance merrily. Unfortunately, human resources is useless and processed the wrong paperwork, resulting in the happy targeting officer being denied the opportunity. "Apologies, this position has already been filled. Better luck next time, mother *****er."

The targeting officer became sad and consulted the wisdom of a boysenberry pie. Six months later, the targeting officer decided to try again and enrolled in the alternative job swap system, which is basically musical chairs with less laughter. The targeting officer applied to approximately 50 positions, some at DIA HQ, others elsewhere. Six months later... the targeting officer received acceptance into one of the applied positions, but he was also instructed that it would require an additional six months of waiting, before he could officially move from one billet to the other.

In conclusion, no... the song and dance does not get any better once you're a real, badge-beeping employee.

Edited by user Friday, August 5, 2022 6:54:10 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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P55CSec  
#1954 Posted : Thursday, August 4, 2022 10:02:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kaliino Go to Quoted Post

The best way I can answer your question is with a little story...


I definitely appreciate the story and point of view. A bit disheartening that all this happened to the officer. Hopefully he either got his transfer or jumped to a different agency. Being miserable at any job always sucks as it almost never gets better. Well, good to know that the inefficiencies that I've already seen of the hiring process won't change anytime soon; got to keep those expectations low.
someoldguy  
#1955 Posted : Friday, August 5, 2022 9:13:45 AM(UTC)
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There was another "DIA Officer" who really really really did not like his assignment so he started checking the internal job board. There was one job he really wanted and another job he wasn't too sure of but he figured it couldn't be much worse than where he was.

The job he really wanted, he got the ghost treatment... it said "received" or something like that and nothing further. The other job, he got an interview and an offer. It was surprisingly easy.

I kept waiting for the outcome that Kali describes but no such foulups occurred. I guess they slip up and one gets through every now and then.
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Kaliino  
#1956 Posted : Friday, August 5, 2022 7:05:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
There was another "DIA Officer" who really really really did not like his assignment so he started checking the internal job board. There was one job he really wanted and another job he wasn't too sure of but he figured it couldn't be much worse than where he was.

The job he really wanted, he got the ghost treatment... it said "received" or something like that and nothing further. The other job, he got an interview and an offer. It was surprisingly easy.

I kept waiting for the outcome that Kali describes but no such foulups occurred. I guess they slip up and one gets through every now and then.

Notice how he didn't mention whether or not the new job was an improvement?

How many of you would like to hear if someoldguy has enjoyed his time at DIA?

In addition to "if", it might be of some interest to learn "why" he has stayed.

Maybe then you will be equipped to decide if it is wise to accept their FJO.

Edited by user Friday, August 5, 2022 7:41:11 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

champion76  
#1957 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2022 12:09:37 PM(UTC)
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Update.

I received my FJO SOCOM. But I declined the offer.

For anyone else trying to get insight here are the details.

Applied: early 2021 ( I forget which hiring event)
Writing sample request: august/ September 2021
Interview: November 2021
CJO: late December 2021
Poly: March 2022
Cleared: May 2022 ( I already hold a TS/SCI, I should have been cleared almost immediately but HR sucks)
Two verbal offers: early June 2022
FJO: Early August

They offered GS 10 step 6.

I’m currently a GS 13 step 5 in DC. I knew I would take a pay cut but the CJO and the FJO were the same grade and step despite being 9 months apart. I figured they would have increased it by the time my FJO came around.

You can look up the pay differences but I’ll just say that it was insulting.

Details about me:
4 years navy
Masters degree in international relations
2/2 in Russian (2 semesters abroad in Russia as well)
3.5 years of experience in the foreign policy field.

Feel free to ask me questions. Also, check your spam folders! That’s where my FJO was sitting.
thanks 1 user thanked champion76 for this useful post.
someoldguy on 8/15/2022(UTC)
MissyP  
#1958 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2022 6:47:32 AM(UTC)
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@champion76 Did they not offer you a bonus to make up for the difference in salaries? I am in a similar situation and declined my first FJO they offered me a 10 step 10 (same as CJO), my current grade is a 12/4. I declined because of the location - high cost living area on a 10/10 even with bonus to a 12/4 (in FL) is not doable plus other personal reasons (homeowner, do not want to relocate the family into a high cost living area, the time up in Quantico for training was a PCS move rather than staying in a dorm or hotel). Once I receive my second offer (or third, I was told I can decline twice but not three times) I am planning on negotiating the bonus to make up for the difference in salaries. I am surprises they didn't offer you anything to make up for the pay cut???
champion76  
#1959 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2022 7:57:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MissyP Go to Quoted Post
@champion76 Did they not offer you a bonus to make up for the difference in salaries? I am in a similar situation and declined my first FJO they offered me a 10 step 10 (same as CJO), my current grade is a 12/4. I declined because of the location - high cost living area on a 10/10 even with bonus to a 12/4 (in FL) is not doable plus other personal reasons (homeowner, do not want to relocate the family into a high cost living area, the time up in Quantico for training was a PCS move rather than staying in a dorm or hotel). Once I receive my second offer (or third, I was told I can decline twice but not three times) I am planning on negotiating the bonus to make up for the difference in salaries. I am surprises they didn't offer you anything to make up for the pay cut???




I live in DC so I understand the high cost of living. Tampa would have been cheaper actually. But they did not offer any bonus. My understanding is that there is no negotiating with them on salary. The original CJO stated that you will NOT be put back into the hiring pool if you decline a position because of the salary offered. I could have tried but I doubt they were gonna increase it by 20-30k ( to get close-ish to where I am now). Plus I found out there is no relocation bonus and they expect me to pay my break lease penalty to get to Tampa by the EOD date. I would lose a lot of money. The only selling point is that Tampa is better than DC... but is it 50k less a year nice? I don't know lol
Kaliino  
#1960 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2022 8:17:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MissyP Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: champion76 Go to Quoted Post
Update. I received my FJO SOCOM (hidden in spam folder), but I declined the offer. They offered GG-10 step 6. I’m currently a GS-13, step 5 in DC. I knew I would take a pay-cut but the CJO and the FJO were the same grade and step despite being nine months apart.

I am in a similar situation and declined my first FJO they offered me a GG-10/10 (same as CJO), my current grade is 12/4. I declined because of the location - high cost living area on a 10/10 even with bonus to a 12/4 (in FL) is not doable plus other personal reasons (homeowner, do not want to relocate the family into a high cost living area, the time up in Quantico for training was a PCS move rather than staying in a hotel).

You both made the right decision to decline the DIA's meager final offers. #fight the power

The highest pay-grade I have ever seen a new hire enter DIA, through a hiring event FJO, is at GG-11, step 2. This individual also took a massive pay-cut in order to transition from contractor to "federal employee" and they immediately regretted their decision. Since both of you are already at GG-13 and GG-12, you should only be applying to specific positions at those pay-grades or above. https://diajobs.dia.mil/...c/DI_HOME.DI_SIGNIN.USF? This is the external list of positions (at higher pay-grades). If you see something you like (at a pay-grade you like) show up in that list, apply to that specific position. Otherwise, remain where you are... rise through the ranks, or apply to other specific positions/pay-grades at other intelligence agencies. All of the problems I have previously mentioned regarding DIA are present across every federal agency, but you should at least be paid what you deserve. Everyone who accepts a pay-cut with the hope that they can recuperate it later... are schmucks.

The DIA is also not obligated to provide financial incentives or bonuses to anyone who will ultimately receive less money to work for them. In their minds... that's your decision and they're not going to reward you for becoming their special brand of lemming. The only exception is a one-time 5% "bonus" that basically everyone receives in order to "help" with the costs of moving. However, since you're considered external employees when you accept their FJO... you don't qualify for relocation expense assistance. They will do anything and everything to remain cheap. However, if you remain with your current agencies and simply get a new job somewhere else... everything will be treated as a PCS and you will receive financial assistance.

My advice? Stay with your current employers and apply to different internal jobs (if you're bored) or apply to "joint duty assignments" (JDA), which allows you to spend 2-3 years working at another federal agency. DIA employees apply to these JDAs quite often (mainly at CIA, NSA, etc.) in order to escape the insanity that is their organizational culture. ODNI is responsible for managing all of these joint opportunities. https://www.dni.gov/inde...ers/joint-duty/vacancies These JDAs are not unique to intelligence either, plenty are administrative or tech or whatever. Check them out.

Edited by user Thursday, August 11, 2022 11:49:45 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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