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Information Security

Information security can mean protecting information and information systems from unauthorized access, use, disclosure, disruption, modification or destruction. This goes beyond just computers and networks. Risks and threats can come from individuals, acts of nature, and new technology.

This topic affects everyone in the federal workforce - top to bottom. Thus, it is also the responsibility of everyone in the federal workforce to protect the information from threats.

Share your experience with securing information.

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Degrees and Certs for IT Positions? - Degrees and Certs for IT Positions?
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Greg  
#121 Posted : Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:10:24 AM(UTC)
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truotsuko wrote:
Well looks like those certs position you for security.



Yea that's what I want to do. I'm getting my bachelor's in Cyber Security.

@lago I only have minimal experience. Nothing in depth. I haven't had a IT specific job.

The company i'm getting my certs through has different programs depending on what you're trying to do. Below is the link to the company.

http://www.newhorizons.com/LocalWeb/Default.aspx?TemplateId=14&GroupId=438
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Iago85  
#122 Posted : Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:43:32 AM(UTC)

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Out of curiosity, where are you getting your degree? How far along are you?

Information Security, Network Forensics...all of these fields are very interesting. There aren't very many solid degree plans out there. Many focus on security policies, business continuity. A current controversy in the field is over these degree plans. Many professionals believe you need a wide base of experience in programming, databases, network principles, etc. If you aren't too far along, I would keep these things in mind and look around some of the popular InfoSec websites and blogs.

As for the certs, those are a different business entirely. C|EH has a few prerequisite certs and an experience requirement. Same with CISSP, though you can get an associate status. They're also very expensive. I would wager the certs you listed are going to cost you, especially since you're doing a "bootcamp" style program, well in excess of $10,000. 

Start small, go for the A+, Security+. Look into the GIAC GISF and GSEC certifications. If you're working for the government, another place is CCNA and other Cisco certs. MCSA and Microsoft certs are good as well.

It's an overwhelming field if you want to get fully into it. However, if you're just interested in a compliance position (which 90% in the government are), then you'll be ok with a degree and a few basic certs.
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Greg  
#123 Posted : Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:43:10 PM(UTC)
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Iago85 wrote:
Out of curiosity, where are you getting your degree? How far along are you?

Information Security, Network Forensics...all of these fields are very interesting. There aren't very many solid degree plans out there. Many focus on security policies, business continuity. A current controversy in the field is over these degree plans. Many professionals believe you need a wide base of experience in programming, databases, network principles, etc. If you aren't too far along, I would keep these things in mind and look around some of the popular InfoSec websites and blogs.

As for the certs, those are a different business entirely. C|EH has a few prerequisite certs and an experience requirement. Same with CISSP, though you can get an associate status. They're also very expensive. I would wager the certs you listed are going to cost you, especially since you're doing a "bootcamp" style program, well in excess of $10,000. 

Start small, go for the A+, Security+. Look into the GIAC GISF and GSEC certifications. If you're working for the government, another place is CCNA and other Cisco certs. MCSA and Microsoft certs are good as well.

It's an overwhelming field if you want to get fully into it. However, if you're just interested in a compliance position (which 90% in the government are), then you'll be ok with a degree and a few basic certs.


I haven't started on my bachelor's yet. Got a few different options here in San Antonio. Before I was in a small town in OK and my only option was online courses which I really didn't want to do so I waited till I moved to San Antonio where I have options.

You're right about how much those certs will cost. Actually it's almost $17K but i'm not paying one penny for them. Using my Post 9/11 GI Bill. They just changed the policy so Vets can use it to pay for certifications so that's a plus.

I've been to 4 different job fairs since being here in San Antonio and talked with all types of companies like Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, etc and each one of them are more concerned with Certs then education. I actually had one guy tell me to my face "I can't talk to you unless you have certs. Get some certs and give me a call."

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Iago85  
#124 Posted : Sunday, November 27, 2011 1:36:17 PM(UTC)

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Yeah, and generally the certs they require are A+ and Security+.

Would you happen to know if you can use the 9/11 GI Bill for school as well as certifications at the same time?
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Greg  
#125 Posted : Sunday, November 27, 2011 2:42:13 PM(UTC)
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Iago85 wrote:
Yeah, and generally the certs they require are A+ and Security+.

Would you happen to know if you can use the 9/11 GI Bill for school as well as certifications at the same time?


Yea A+ and Sec+ are some of the first few Certs i'm getting in the next few weeks.

Yea you can use it at the same time. IT just depends on how many months you have.
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Ty  
#126 Posted : Thursday, December 8, 2011 7:33:31 AM(UTC)
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The issue with Certs is that they have expiration dates, unlike degrees. Once you get that diploma, its yours forever, Certs have to be renewed every 3-5 yrs.



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Greg  
#127 Posted : Thursday, December 8, 2011 9:36:51 AM(UTC)
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Comet wrote:
The issue with Certs is that they have expiration dates, unlike degrees. Once you get that diploma, its yours forever, Certs have to be renewed every 3-5 yrs.





True. Got my Associate's in Computer Science. Starting on my bachelor's next fall. Want to finish getting these certs out of the way.
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Nettie  
#128 Posted : Wednesday, December 14, 2011 11:54:05 PM(UTC)
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Greetings, all.  I have a question... I want to start a certification for the Security IT Positions for the FT. Meade, MD location... What is the best place to start?  I was told to start with the Network +... However, I am ready these messages, and you are stating to start at the A+ certification...  Which is the best place to start? 
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Greg  
#129 Posted : Thursday, December 15, 2011 12:14:38 AM(UTC)
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tilg9v9l7 wrote:
<FONT size=2 face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Greetings, all.  I have a question... I want to start a certification for the Security IT Positions for the FT. Meade, MD location... What is the best place to start?  I was told to start with the Network +... However, I am ready these messages, and you are stating to start at the A+ certification...  Which is the best place to start? 


Alot of places don't really take A+ anymore but i'm still taking it. You want to do A+, Net+, then Sec+ I did mine all backwards. I did Sec+ first then Net+, then I got A+ next month.
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AHLTA Warrior  
#130 Posted : Thursday, January 24, 2013 5:05:17 AM(UTC)

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Honestly, do your Sec+ and do an MCITP and CCNP track and make sure you LEARN it. Then after a few years get your CISSP and you'll never want for a job again.
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Dizzy_15  
#131 Posted : Monday, May 21, 2018 12:40:12 PM(UTC)
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Are certs still considered more important than a degree? I already work in security but am looking to jump into computer security. I work in industry and I'm told it's hard getting people to stay in this position. I've started taking courses from COMPTIA. Starting with the basic IT fundamentals course because I don't know a lot. I know basics and that's about it. But it's a field I'd like to get into. Suggestions or comments on how I'm going about this? TIA
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King_Fed  
#132 Posted : Wednesday, May 23, 2018 6:25:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dizzy_15 Go to Quoted Post
Are certs still considered more important than a degree? I already work in security but am looking to jump into computer security. I work in industry and I'm told it's hard getting people to stay in this position. I've started taking courses from COMPTIA. Starting with the basic IT fundamentals course because I don't know a lot. I know basics and that's about it. But it's a field I'd like to get into. Suggestions or comments on how I'm going about this? TIA


Not sure... I can tell you that once I put my cissp on my resume, I started getting a lot more interviews. But then, I already have an MBA... with my certs.

Before, with only the MBA, I would put in maybe 70 to 120 usajobs and have maybe three to five interviews and two or three offers. This time, with the CISSP/MBA/more expierience, I put in for three jobs and had two interviews... one offer and waiting for another offer hopefully Friday or next Monday. Choices are good...

And then it depends on the school you go as well.. I went to a school not a lot of people respect... it was good for me at the time... so if you go to Harvard with no certs, maybe your experience on USAJOBs will be different.

What I'm really trying to say is that your question cannot be answered with a "yes" or "no"... lot more complicated than that.

If I were you, I'd do the A+, Network+, Sec+, (maybe) SSCP, but definitely the CISSP (you won't have enough experience for the CISSP, but you can become an "associate"). After all of that, I'd go after a college degree. That is MY opinion...

A+ and Network+ are good "background" certs to have, if you have no experience with computers. Now the Sec+ you could argue you don't need if you do the SSCP... and vice versa. But if you have no exprience, don't both of them might not hurt... but it is time and money. If I have to pick, I'd prob do the Sec+ since most HR people will know exactly what it is... they won't have a clue about the SSCP... HR will know about CISSP.

Real IT people don't dig up threads that are five years old either. Maybe you should do a cert in basket weaving. ;-)

Edited by user Wednesday, May 23, 2018 6:31:04 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Dizzy_15 on 5/24/2018(UTC)
Dizzy_15  
#133 Posted : Thursday, May 24, 2018 1:30:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: King_Fed Go to Quoted Post


Not sure... I can tell you that once I put my cissp on my resume, I started getting a lot more interviews. But then, I already have an MBA... with my certs.

Before, with only the MBA, I would put in maybe 70 to 120 usajobs and have maybe three to five interviews and two or three offers. This time, with the CISSP/MBA/more expierience, I put in for three jobs and had two interviews... one offer and waiting for another offer hopefully Friday or next Monday. Choices are good...

And then it depends on the school you go as well.. I went to a school not a lot of people respect... it was good for me at the time... so if you go to Harvard with no certs, maybe your experience on USAJOBs will be different.

What I'm really trying to say is that your question cannot be answered with a "yes" or "no"... lot more complicated than that.

If I were you, I'd do the A+, Network+, Sec+, (maybe) SSCP, but definitely the CISSP (you won't have enough experience for the CISSP, but you can become an "associate"). After all of that, I'd go after a college degree. That is MY opinion...

A+ and Network+ are good "background" certs to have, if you have no experience with computers. Now the Sec+ you could argue you don't need if you do the SSCP... and vice versa. But if you have no exprience, don't both of them might not hurt... but it is time and money. If I have to pick, I'd prob do the Sec+ since most HR people will know exactly what it is... they won't have a clue about the SSCP... HR will know about CISSP.

Real IT people don't dig up threads that are five years old either. Maybe you should do a cert in basket weaving. ;-)


I'm clearly brand new cause i definitely went diggin! it seems everything in this forum on this subject is that old :D

thanks for the info. My plan was to do A+ network+ then Sec+. I definitely have no experience with computers so I know that'll count against me. I have a bachelor's degree, but it's in business. I can see that having the CISSP made a huge difference. So I think i'm on the right path then. Get those 3 certs and then work on getting the CISSP.

appreciate you taking time to answer this 5 year old thread ;)
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King_Fed  
#134 Posted: : Thursday, May 24, 2018 5:14:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dizzy_15 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: King_Fed Go to Quoted Post


Not sure... I can tell you that once I put my cissp on my resume, I started getting a lot more interviews. But then, I already have an MBA... with my certs.

Before, with only the MBA, I would put in maybe 70 to 120 usajobs and have maybe three to five interviews and two or three offers. This time, with the CISSP/MBA/more expierience, I put in for three jobs and had two interviews... one offer and waiting for another offer hopefully Friday or next Monday. Choices are good...

And then it depends on the school you go as well.. I went to a school not a lot of people respect... it was good for me at the time... so if you go to Harvard with no certs, maybe your experience on USAJOBs will be different.

What I'm really trying to say is that your question cannot be answered with a "yes" or "no"... lot more complicated than that.

If I were you, I'd do the A+, Network+, Sec+, (maybe) SSCP, but definitely the CISSP (you won't have enough experience for the CISSP, but you can become an "associate"). After all of that, I'd go after a college degree. That is MY opinion...

A+ and Network+ are good "background" certs to have, if you have no experience with computers. Now the Sec+ you could argue you don't need if you do the SSCP... and vice versa. But if you have no exprience, don't both of them might not hurt... but it is time and money. If I have to pick, I'd prob do the Sec+ since most HR people will know exactly what it is... they won't have a clue about the SSCP... HR will know about CISSP.

Real IT people don't dig up threads that are five years old either. Maybe you should do a cert in basket weaving. ;-)


I'm clearly brand new cause i definitely went diggin! it seems everything in this forum on this subject is that old :D

thanks for the info. My plan was to do A+ network+ then Sec+. I definitely have no experience with computers so I know that'll count against me. I have a bachelor's degree, but it's in business. I can see that having the CISSP made a huge difference. So I think i'm on the right path then. Get those 3 certs and then work on getting the CISSP.

appreciate you taking time to answer this 5 year old thread ;)


Any degree is good... you don't need one specifically in IT... if you have your certs.

You might want to get a job on a help desk or desktop support, if you can. If you can swing an entry level IT security job, even better.

What you don't want to do is get a bunch of certs and become a "paper cert guy". That means you can take tests but have no experience. CISSP made a difference for me, but I also took my first computer apart in the early 90s.... I've been at this for a long time. It is hard to compare...

That is what I find when I interview... but experience will win out, most times (unless a cert is mandated or the hiring person has no clue).

Oh, and your plan with the certs should take years... I'm thinking 2 years, if you study full time and actually learn the material... and do nothing but study. Even with the CISSP you won't have experience, but it will help get your foot in the door, hopefully.


you might want to think about IT project management (it MIGHT look like: A+, Net+, Sec+ and then PMP), if you are interested. Goes well with your business degree as well. I recently interviewed for a job that was not listed as a PM job but was frankly a PM job.
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Dizzy_15 on 5/29/2018(UTC)
King_Fed  
#135 Posted : Sunday, May 27, 2018 6:15:30 AM(UTC)
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Someone offline asked me for some general numbers and thought I would add them here...

12 months prior to CISSP added to resume:

13 USAJOBS positions applied (only put in for 13 jobs so not trying very hard) -- to be clear "received" is like someone stating "we received it".

2 incomplete
4 unavailable
1 referred
2 Not hired
3 received
Not sure if any reposted

End result: No offers

After CISSP placed on resume (less than three months ago):

10 USAJOBS positions applied

0 Incomplete
0 unavailable
3 Referred
6 received
1 reposted

End result:
2 interviews
2 offers
1 new job

CISSP or did the gov't job market open or was it luck? Think I'm know on this forum for stating it takes me up to 100+ USAJob applications to receive a couple of interviews and job offers. I'd say my "after CISSP" experience is not the norm for me.

Edited by user Sunday, May 27, 2018 6:23:07 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Dizzy_15 on 5/29/2018(UTC)
Dizzy_15  
#136 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2018 7:40:54 AM(UTC)
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Thank you King_Fed for all of the info and life experience, you've definitely given me some perspective and things to think about. I really appreciate it!
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