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craigrh13  
#61 Posted : Sunday, July 16, 2017 12:15:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MPE2009 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
I recently posted this on another forum. It applies here.

Yes, retirement money comes from a different pot, but I doubt anyone could convince me that csrs city carriers are not the best deal financially if you look at what they get paid compared to their retirement pay and then compared to even CCAs. All that experience for $15k a year plus benefits stacks up pretty well against a stream of quitting CCAs at over $30k a year. Overtime is the real cost, but management could control that if they cared. And the longer the CSRS carriers work the better shape the pensíon fund will be for Congress to loot. CSRS carriers are a steal, IMO. If I was CSRS, I might just retire out of principle if I thought about what a deal I was giving the USPS/pensíon fund duo.


I'm willing to retire at my MRA as long as Craig and the newbies that we're holding down by not retiring are willing to pay me the difference between my pay and my retirement out of their own pockets. I also expect the same COLA and yearly contractual raises out of their pockets as the union negotiates for them.


I will be very vocal about doing away with our pension. The money we newbies have to pay for the return we get is not worth it. That money invested in the TSP/IRA will treat you much better then a pension will. I say that for us youngsters. The older people who didn't fully invest their own money will benefit better from the pension. Us newbies? No way.

Seadogg  
#62 Posted : Sunday, July 16, 2017 12:57:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: craigrh13 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MPE2009 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
I recently posted this on another forum. It applies here.

Yes, retirement money comes from a different pot, but I doubt anyone could convince me that csrs city carriers are not the best deal financially if you look at what they get paid compared to their retirement pay and then compared to even CCAs. All that experience for $15k a year plus benefits stacks up pretty well against a stream of quitting CCAs at over $30k a year. Overtime is the real cost, but management could control that if they cared. And the longer the CSRS carriers work the better shape the pensíon fund will be for Congress to loot. CSRS carriers are a steal, IMO. If I was CSRS, I might just retire out of principle if I thought about what a deal I was giving the USPS/pensíon fund duo.


I'm willing to retire at my MRA as long as Craig and the newbies that we're holding down by not retiring are willing to pay me the difference between my pay and my retirement out of their own pockets. I also expect the same COLA and yearly contractual raises out of their pockets as the union negotiates for them.


I will be very vocal about doing away with our pension. The money we newbies have to pay for the return we get is not worth it. That money invested in the TSP/IRA will treat you much better then a pension will. I say that for us youngsters. The older people who didn't fully invest their own money will benefit better from the pension. Us newbies? No way.



It depends on how long you live after retirement. I'm pretty sure a defined benefit pension with cola should generate more income (over, say, 30 years) than if you were able to invest your 4.4 percent in the tsp. Now if they had a 10 percent match, that might be worth sacrificing FERS (although I'd need to see some math).
postalvet  
#63 Posted : Sunday, July 16, 2017 1:07:18 PM(UTC)
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imo this is the best for free site for figuring out your pension amount.


http://www.fedcalc.com/
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
craigrh13  
#64 Posted : Sunday, July 16, 2017 1:08:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Seadogg Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: craigrh13 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MPE2009 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
I recently posted this on another forum. It applies here.

Yes, retirement money comes from a different pot, but I doubt anyone could convince me that csrs city carriers are not the best deal financially if you look at what they get paid compared to their retirement pay and then compared to even CCAs. All that experience for $15k a year plus benefits stacks up pretty well against a stream of quitting CCAs at over $30k a year. Overtime is the real cost, but management could control that if they cared. And the longer the CSRS carriers work the better shape the pensíon fund will be for Congress to loot. CSRS carriers are a steal, IMO. If I was CSRS, I might just retire out of principle if I thought about what a deal I was giving the USPS/pensíon fund duo.


I'm willing to retire at my MRA as long as Craig and the newbies that we're holding down by not retiring are willing to pay me the difference between my pay and my retirement out of their own pockets. I also expect the same COLA and yearly contractual raises out of their pockets as the union negotiates for them.


I will be very vocal about doing away with our pension. The money we newbies have to pay for the return we get is not worth it. That money invested in the TSP/IRA will treat you much better then a pension will. I say that for us youngsters. The older people who didn't fully invest their own money will benefit better from the pension. Us newbies? No way.



It depends on how long you live after retirement. I'm pretty sure a defined benefit pension with cola should generate more income (over, say, 30 years) than if you were able to invest your 4.4 percent in the tsp. Now if they had a 10 percent match, that might be worth sacrificing FERS (although I'd need to see some math).


You ADD that 4.4 on top of the 5 percent match we have. You will make a lot more money if you play your cards right. The problem is that it is oo much work for people. They don't understand there things. A defined pension is easy. You do nothing. Hell, even if you just take your
Money and put it into C or S and max it out you will do far better than our $1500/month pension.

Edited by user Sunday, July 16, 2017 1:12:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

craigrh13  
#65 Posted : Sunday, July 16, 2017 1:11:03 PM(UTC)
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We need to pay attention to what happens to UPS the next contract negotions. They already announced a freeze to their non union employees pensions in 5 years. In return they will get a 6-8% match. So it might be interesting what happens to their union employees next contract.
Hannah Blector  
#66 Posted : Sunday, July 16, 2017 1:52:08 PM(UTC)
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The change to FERS pension made the TSP the way to a better retirement for FERS compared to CSRS. The change from .8% to 3.1% and then to 4.4% for FERS contribution made FERS just something similar to Social Security for newbies. Even with my .8% I would have preferred to have the money the USPS contributed to FERS put in my TSP instead, even if it required me to match some or all.

At 4.4%, the newbies were basically being told FERS is not a reason to hire on. When I told a newbie how he was paying and how much he would get, he said he thought the retirement was supposed to be good. He went back to being a policeman (20 years, 50%; 25 years, 75%; 30 years, 100%).

At 4.4%, I think newbies should have the option to opt out of FERS and put the money elsewhere with a 4.4% match. But most people know the powers that be want that money where they can use it for some other purpose.

It is true that many employees don't understand what they will get with FERS. If some newbies knew and were on the fence about whether or not to make being a city carrier a career, they would jump off the fence in a heartbeat.
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craigrh13 on 7/16/2017(UTC)
craigrh13  
#67 Posted : Sunday, July 16, 2017 4:27:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
The change to FERS pension made the TSP the way to a better retirement for FERS compared to CSRS. The change from .8% to 3.1% and then to 4.4% for FERS contribution made FERS just something similar to Social Security for newbies. Even with my .8% I would have preferred to have the money the USPS contributed to FERS put in my TSP instead, even if it required me to match some or all.

At 4.4%, the newbies were basically being told FERS is not a reason to hire on. When I told a newbie how he was paying and how much he would get, he said he thought the retirement was supposed to be good. He went back to being a policeman (20 years, 50%; 25 years, 75%; 30 years, 100%).

At 4.4%, I think newbies should have the option to opt out of FERS and put the money elsewhere with a 4.4% match. But most people know the powers that be want that money where they can use it for some other purpose.

It is true that many employees don't understand what they will get with FERS. If some newbies knew and were on the fence about whether or not to make being a city carrier a career, they would jump off the fence in a heartbeat.


If the new hires banded together and demanded a withdraw from FERS in return for a 5% match on their TSP they would come out much better come retirement. The company would also benefit as would the government. TSP/401k match is a cost that can be computed and expected. Pension costs are hard to manage and predict. Hence why everyone is getting away from them. Not to mention the return for what you pay into is just not worth it. Your pension is one vote away from being screwed with. You have zero control over that, yet they are still robbing it from your paycheck. You have no control over the rate of return. It's defined. Screw that.

The problem is public perception. People see the stock market go down and freak out. What they don't realize is that the markets ALWAYS end up turning around. Look at the gains since 2008. Stocks are low and you are buying low. When they turn around you kill it. We have a severe education problem when it comes to finances and then people wonder why they don't have a pot to piss in!
thanks 1 user thanked craigrh13 for this useful post.
Hannah Blector on 7/16/2017(UTC)
alaskamailman  
#68 Posted : Sunday, July 16, 2017 6:43:02 PM(UTC)
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If new hires 'banded together and demanded'. The Post Office doesn't work that way.
thanks 3 users thanked alaskamailman for this useful post.
postalvet on 7/16/2017(UTC), mnmailman on 7/17/2017(UTC), startingfrombottom on 7/17/2017(UTC)
craigrh13  
#69 Posted : Sunday, July 16, 2017 8:23:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: alaskamailman Go to Quoted Post
If new hires 'banded together and demanded'. The Post Office doesn't work that way.


We can sure as hell make enough noise to try and push for change. I know I'll be writing my senators and representatives about this issue. Between getting paid roughly 60-65% of a topped out career employee, having to pay 4.4% to their .8% towards FERS and still having to put the same amount in union dues we new hires get hosed. Might as well do what we can to set up our retirement for the best. The current FERS is not the best option for us.
roger.d  
#70 Posted : Sunday, July 16, 2017 9:20:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: craigrh13 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: alaskamailman Go to Quoted Post
If new hires 'banded together and demanded'. The Post Office doesn't work that way.


We can sure as hell make enough noise to try and push for change. I know I'll be writing my senators and representatives about this issue. Between getting paid roughly 60-65% of a topped out career employee, having to pay 4.4% to their .8% towards FERS and still having to put the same amount in union dues we new hires get hosed. Might as well do what we can to set up our retirement for the best. The current FERS is not the best option for us.



Boy is this line is getting old. Go find another job that you start making the same as an experienced employee.
craigrh13  
#71 Posted : Sunday, July 16, 2017 9:49:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: roger605 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: craigrh13 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: alaskamailman Go to Quoted Post
If new hires 'banded together and demanded'. The Post Office doesn't work that way.


We can sure as hell make enough noise to try and push for change. I know I'll be writing my senators and representatives about this issue. Between getting paid roughly 60-65% of a topped out career employee, having to pay 4.4% to their .8% towards FERS and still having to put the same amount in union dues we new hires get hosed. Might as well do what we can to set up our retirement for the best. The current FERS is not the best option for us.



Boy is this line is getting old. Go find another job that you start making the same as an experienced employee.


Nice cherry pick. That's what you decide to pick out of that? What line is getting old? Welllllll if you will. Experienced??? We are putting mail in a box. This isn't skilled work. You can train a monkey to do our job. I hate to admit it but it's true. It doesn't take a whole lot to learn the job. Come on now. Show me another union outfit that has a 12 year wage progression. Skilled trades top out at 5 years. RR tops out at 5 years. All skilled jobs. This is not a skilled job. It's not a bad job but experience has Zero to do with the wage progression.

Hopefully the new hires get tired of getting screwed over and come to their senses that this whole FERS crap is not in our best interest. Just like SS we will be lucky if it's even around. Nobody can take your IRA/TSP/401k from you. You control that. That is probably too much work for people though. Everyone wants handouts and something for nothing now days.
dafishman  
#72 Posted : Monday, July 17, 2017 4:52:52 AM(UTC)

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Nobody can take your ira/tsp as of now. Wait 15-20 years they could take them and roll them into your future ss benefit.
roger.d  
#73 Posted : Monday, July 17, 2017 5:08:59 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: craigrh13 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: roger605 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: craigrh13 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: alaskamailman Go to Quoted Post
If new hires 'banded together and demanded'. The Post Office doesn't work that way.


We can sure as hell make enough noise to try and push for change. I know I'll be writing my senators and representatives about this issue. Between getting paid roughly 60-65% of a topped out career employee, having to pay 4.4% to their .8% towards FERS and still having to put the same amount in union dues we new hires get hosed. Might as well do what we can to set up our retirement for the best. The current FERS is not the best option for us.



Boy is this line is getting old. Go find another job that you start making the same as an experienced employee.


Nice cherry pick. That's what you decide to pick out of that? What line is getting old? Welllllll if you will. Experienced??? We are putting mail in a box. This isn't skilled work. You can train a monkey to do our job. I hate to admit it but it's true. It doesn't take a whole lot to learn the job. Come on now. Show me another union outfit that has a 12 year wage progression. Skilled trades top out at 5 years. RR tops out at 5 years. All skilled jobs. This is not a skilled job. It's not a bad job but experience has Zero to do with the wage progression.

Hopefully the new hires get tired of getting screwed over and come to their senses that this whole FERS crap is not in our best interest. Just like SS we will be lucky if it's even around. Nobody can take your IRA/TSP/401k from you. You control that. That is probably too much work for people though. Everyone wants handouts and something for nothing now days.


If you are taking a job you expect to be your "career", you should be researching what the wages are and what the benefits are.

If you don't like what this employer is offering, go find a job that fits your expectations.

Edited by user Monday, July 17, 2017 5:26:29 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hannah Blector  
#74 Posted : Monday, July 17, 2017 7:04:21 AM(UTC)
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I will say that nothing we have is safe when greedy people who have a history of stealing from workers to enrich themselves are in power. Some of them even fawn over evil dictators who swipe billions of dollars from the citizens under their control.
mnmailman  
#75 Posted : Monday, July 17, 2017 9:22:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dafishman Go to Quoted Post
Nobody can take your ira/tsp as of now. Wait 15-20 years they could take them and roll them into your future ss benefit.



There was already an

idea floated a few years

ago about using TSP funds

for road/bridge repair, etc.

Anyone who believes their

retirement, in any form, is 100%

safe is naive.

<g>
Question authority.
craigrh13  
#76 Posted : Monday, July 17, 2017 10:33:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mnmailman Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dafishman Go to Quoted Post
Nobody can take your ira/tsp as of now. Wait 15-20 years they could take them and roll them into your future ss benefit.



There was already an

idea floated a few years

ago about using TSP funds

for road/bridge repair, etc.

Anyone who believes their

retirement, in any form, is 100%

safe is naive.

<g>


Tsp/401k funds that you put in are yours. NOBODY can take those.
craigrh13  
#77 Posted : Monday, July 17, 2017 10:47:13 AM(UTC)
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I take that back. Big eared Obummer signed a law that allows the IRS to take your delinquent taxes from your TSP.
craigrh13  
#78 Posted : Monday, July 17, 2017 10:51:35 AM(UTC)
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https://federalnewsradio...-changes-to-tsps-g-fund/

You are referring to them tweaking the G fund. It's not taking money from you. It says that 45% of participants have their money in the G fund. That's insanity!!! People are totally screwing their self if they have money in the G fund. They are missing out on sooooooooo much money. It's mind blowing to me on just how stupid people are when it comes to their own money and investing it.
postalvet  
#79 Posted : Monday, July 17, 2017 11:33:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: craigrh13 Go to Quoted Post
[

We are putting mail in a box. This isn't skilled work. You can train a monkey to do our job. I hate to admit it but it's true. It doesn't take a whole lot to learn the job. .




this is the same argument management uses at EVERY bargaining contract time.


WHEN IT COMES FROM CRAFT YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO BE A UNION MEMBER!!!


you don't like craft work, go into management you already think like them!!!!
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
craigrh13  
#80 Posted : Monday, July 17, 2017 11:57:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: craigrh13 Go to Quoted Post
[

We are putting mail in a box. This isn't skilled work. You can train a monkey to do our job. I hate to admit it but it's true. It doesn't take a whole lot to learn the job. .




this is the same argument management uses at EVERY bargaining contract time.


WHEN IT COMES FROM CRAFT YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO BE A UNION MEMBER!!!


you don't like craft work, go into management you already think like them!!!!


Because I tell the truth? Because I don't lie or exaggerate our work? Look, it's not considered a skilled trade. Why is that a bad thing to tell the truth? Our work isn't for everyone by any means but the facts are the facts. It's simply not a skilled trade. No matter how you spin it.

I don't deserve to be a union member? Way to live up to the stereotypes. You wonder why unions are dying and public perception of them is what it is.
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