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VetPref68  
#41 Posted : Sunday, April 15, 2018 9:11:38 PM(UTC)

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How long will it take for you to get the jist of an agency? 5 min? 8 hours? 6 months?

You do realize that most of probation is getting to know the job, the people, the ins and outs of the job?

You just don’t magically know about the agency by doing a so called “getting to know the agency” walk-thru (if you think there is such a thing).

If the government agency spent time for every prospective hire just to see if they like it, We wouldn’t get any work done!

Take it from someone who has been in the government for over 29 years (both in military and as a fed), the government doesn’t bend over backwards for any prospective hire.

The bottom line is you are wasting your time if they are going to accommodate your wishes to see if you are a good fit. When you apply, they scan your app and resume, they interview, they background you and they offer....they have vetted you and found you to be a good fit.

It’s simple, you go to work for them or you don’t. They won’t lose sleep or regret any decision they make...they will just adapt and overcome!

rbr  
#42 Posted : Sunday, April 15, 2018 9:22:58 PM(UTC)
rbr

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Originally Posted by: VetPref68 Go to Quoted Post
How long will it take for you to get the jist of an agency? 5 min? 8 hours? 6 months?

You do realize that most of probation is getting to know the job, the people, the ins and outs of the job?

You just don’t magically know about the agency by doing a so called “getting to know the agency” walk-thru (if you think there is such a thing).

If the government agency spent time for every prospective hire just to see if they like it, We wouldn’t get any work done!

Take it from someone who has been in the government for over 29 years (both in military and as a fed), the government doesn’t bend over backwards for any prospective hire.

The bottom line is you are wasting your time if they are going to accommodate your wishes to see if you are a good fit. When you apply, they scan your app and resume, they interview, they background you and they offer....they have vetted you and found you to be a good fit.

It’s simple, you go to work for them or you don’t. They won’t lose sleep or regret any decision they make...they will just adapt and overcome!



You keeping missing the point....This is not the only job that I have to choose from. Is 2 days enough to get the full gist of an agency? No.........but it can be valuable in deciding in choosing if I'm going to take a job in that one agency or another. You act as if me coming for a 3 hour visit is going to turn the government on it's head and all productivity will cease altogether. If your criticism is that nothing would ever get done if people came to visit, then obviously you don't work for the government because then you would know its not exactly the poster child for productivity and efficiency to begin with. As flattered as I am that the agency has found me to be a good fit, it's a two-way street in that they must be a good fit for me as well. I'm glad the government will adapt and overcome should I not take the job but you never answered my question in the prior post of how long it would take to overcome because while the government is "overcoming", it's the employees who have to pick up the slack for the loss of manpower during that process.

Edited by user Sunday, April 15, 2018 9:26:43 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rikaku  
#43 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 2:56:39 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: rbr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VetPref68 Go to Quoted Post
How long will it take for you to get the jist of an agency? 5 min? 8 hours? 6 months?

You do realize that most of probation is getting to know the job, the people, the ins and outs of the job?

You just don’t magically know about the agency by doing a so called “getting to know the agency” walk-thru (if you think there is such a thing).

If the government agency spent time for every prospective hire just to see if they like it, We wouldn’t get any work done!

Take it from someone who has been in the government for over 29 years (both in military and as a fed), the government doesn’t bend over backwards for any prospective hire.

The bottom line is you are wasting your time if they are going to accommodate your wishes to see if you are a good fit. When you apply, they scan your app and resume, they interview, they background you and they offer....they have vetted you and found you to be a good fit.

It’s simple, you go to work for them or you don’t. They won’t lose sleep or regret any decision they make...they will just adapt and overcome!



You keeping missing the point....This is not the only job that I have to choose from. Is 2 days enough to get the full gist of an agency? No.........but it can be valuable in deciding in choosing if I'm going to take a job in that one agency or another. You act as if me coming for a 3 hour visit is going to turn the government on it's head and all productivity will cease altogether. If your criticism is that nothing would ever get done if people came to visit, then obviously you don't work for the government because then you would know its not exactly the poster child for productivity and efficiency to begin with. As flattered as I am that the agency has found me to be a good fit, it's a two-way street in that they must be a good fit for me as well. I'm glad the government will adapt and overcome should I not take the job but you never answered my question in the prior post of how long it would take to overcome because while the government is "overcoming", it's the employees who have to pick up the slack for the loss of manpower during that process.



I think you are missing the point. You had two other offers, so what? You do realize that the agency likely has an entire list of other people on the cert to choose from, right? You think you have leverage over this agency as a GS7 or 9, but, newsflash - you don't. The only way I could ever see a "walk through" being granted is to a SES or GS15, or something along those lines. At the 7 and 9 level, there are literally thousands of experienced people and new graduates beating down the door for those positions, therefore, the agency can basically do whatever they want and still get those positions filled.


You don't seem to be taking heed from any of the numerous people on this board all telling you the exact same thing. I don't know what kind of responses you were expecting, but I just hope whatever job you do take that you do not enter that job with such a chip on your shoulder and stubborn arrogance as you have displayed here.

VetPref68  
#44 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 4:44:43 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: rbr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VetPref68 Go to Quoted Post
How long will it take for you to get the jist of an agency? 5 min? 8 hours? 6 months?

You do realize that most of probation is getting to know the job, the people, the ins and outs of the job?

You just don’t magically know about the agency by doing a so called “getting to know the agency” walk-thru (if you think there is such a thing).

If the government agency spent time for every prospective hire just to see if they like it, We wouldn’t get any work done!

Take it from someone who has been in the government for over 29 years (both in military and as a fed), the government doesn’t bend over backwards for any prospective hire.

The bottom line is you are wasting your time if they are going to accommodate your wishes to see if you are a good fit. When you apply, they scan your app and resume, they interview, they background you and they offer....they have vetted you and found you to be a good fit.

It’s simple, you go to work for them or you don’t. They won’t lose sleep or regret any decision they make...they will just adapt and overcome!



You keeping missing the point....This is not the only job that I have to choose from. Is 2 days enough to get the full gist of an agency? No.........but it can be valuable in deciding in choosing if I'm going to take a job in that one agency or another. You act as if me coming for a 3 hour visit is going to turn the government on it's head and all productivity will cease altogether. If your criticism is that nothing would ever get done if people came to visit, then obviously you don't work for the government because then you would know its not exactly the poster child for productivity and efficiency to begin with. As flattered as I am that the agency has found me to be a good fit, it's a two-way street in that they must be a good fit for me as well. I'm glad the government will adapt and overcome should I not take the job but you never answered my question in the prior post of how long it would take to overcome because while the government is "overcoming", it's the employees who have to pick up the slack for the loss of manpower during that process.


No, I am not missing the point....

You are a person who expects the government to wine and dine you and adjust their schedule for you to decide.

That’s not how it works.

So yes, the answer to your original question is the government is this way.

Having multiple offers is no big deal....I have had that twice. Had to make a decision without visiting anything. Happens all the time.

Either take the job with what you have been given or don’t. Pretty simple.

Edited by user Monday, April 16, 2018 4:46:46 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

VetPref68  
#45 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 5:51:37 AM(UTC)

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So let me get this straight....

You didn't want to spend thousands of dollars going to an interview for a job that doesn't really align with your expertise or career objectives, but now you are willing to spend thousands of dollars on a job that you might not even take anyway?

It might be best for you and those that currently work for that agency that you don't take the job. You have a false sense of entitlement that might come crashing down on you.

Remember, you have no rights during the first year of probation. They could just say, "You are not a good fit" and out the door you go.

Edited by user Monday, April 16, 2018 5:52:08 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

rbr  
#46 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 7:23:18 AM(UTC)
rbr

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Originally Posted by: Rikaku Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: rbr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VetPref68 Go to Quoted Post
How long will it take for you to get the jist of an agency? 5 min? 8 hours? 6 months?

You do realize that most of probation is getting to know the job, the people, the ins and outs of the job?

You just don’t magically know about the agency by doing a so called “getting to know the agency” walk-thru (if you think there is such a thing).

If the government agency spent time for every prospective hire just to see if they like it, We wouldn’t get any work done!

Take it from someone who has been in the government for over 29 years (both in military and as a fed), the government doesn’t bend over backwards for any prospective hire.

The bottom line is you are wasting your time if they are going to accommodate your wishes to see if you are a good fit. When you apply, they scan your app and resume, they interview, they background you and they offer....they have vetted you and found you to be a good fit.

It’s simple, you go to work for them or you don’t. They won’t lose sleep or regret any decision they make...they will just adapt and overcome!



You keeping missing the point....This is not the only job that I have to choose from. Is 2 days enough to get the full gist of an agency? No.........but it can be valuable in deciding in choosing if I'm going to take a job in that one agency or another. You act as if me coming for a 3 hour visit is going to turn the government on it's head and all productivity will cease altogether. If your criticism is that nothing would ever get done if people came to visit, then obviously you don't work for the government because then you would know its not exactly the poster child for productivity and efficiency to begin with. As flattered as I am that the agency has found me to be a good fit, it's a two-way street in that they must be a good fit for me as well. I'm glad the government will adapt and overcome should I not take the job but you never answered my question in the prior post of how long it would take to overcome because while the government is "overcoming", it's the employees who have to pick up the slack for the loss of manpower during that process.



I think you are missing the point. You had two other offers, so what? You do realize that the agency likely has an entire list of other people on the cert to choose from, right? You think you have leverage over this agency as a GS7 or 9, but, newsflash - you don't. The only way I could ever see a "walk through" being granted is to a SES or GS15, or something along those lines. At the 7 and 9 level, there are literally thousands of experienced people and new graduates beating down the door for those positions, therefore, the agency can basically do whatever they want and still get those positions filled.


You don't seem to be taking heed from any of the numerous people on this board all telling you the exact same thing. I don't know what kind of responses you were expecting, but I just hope whatever job you do take that you do not enter that job with such a chip on your shoulder and stubborn arrogance as you have displayed here.



It's obvious that YOU didn't read the thread.....Where do you see stubborn arrogance? It's called making an informed decision. It's easy to sit behind a computer screen and accuse me of having an entitled attitude when I'm the one who has to deal with the consequences of relocating and deciding between job offers. Given that your tone and the fact that you are hanging out in a "New Hire Forum" I'm guessing you don't work for the Federal Government and can't sympathize with the situation. So if you have never had to choose between multiple offers than you have no right to speak on the situation. Go back and read the thread and if you have any thing that directly addresses one the issues maybe we can have a discussion.

Edited by user Monday, April 16, 2018 8:28:24 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

rbr  
#47 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 7:33:51 AM(UTC)
rbr

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Originally Posted by: VetPref68 Go to Quoted Post
So let me get this straight....

You didn't want to spend thousands of dollars going to an interview for a job that doesn't really align with your expertise or career objectives, but now you are willing to spend thousands of dollars on a job that you might not even take anyway?

It might be best for you and those that currently work for that agency that you don't take the job. You have a false sense of entitlement that might come crashing down on you.

Remember, you have no rights during the first year of probation. They could just say, "You are not a good fit" and out the door you go.


Was I willing to spend hundreds of dollars of my own money to travel across country on an extremely short notice for a initial interview in a position where hundreds of other candidates were being considered? No I was not but I was offered the job anyway. The agency could have said "No thanks" after my refusal to fly out and moved on, but they didn't.

Am I willing to spend that money now that I've have been offered the job? Yes I am. Is that difference so hard for you to comprehend?

Either you can't read or are flat out choosing not to but I've been repeating the same thing for 6 posts now. Why go through the pain of being not being a good fit during probation when I can go prior check it out to starting and use that information to take the job in which I would be the best fit?

If wanting to know more about an organization so that I can make an informed decision is your definition of entitlement then you should probably go buy a dictionary.

Edited by user Monday, April 16, 2018 8:04:32 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

frankgonzalez  
#48 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 7:41:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rbr Go to Quoted Post
It's obvious that YOU didn't read the thread.....Where do you see stubborn arrogance? It's called making an informed decision. If you have never had to choose between multiple offers than you have no right to speak on the situation. Go back and read the thread and if you have any thing that directly addresses one the issues maybe we can have a discussion.
Ok...as someone who has had numerous offers (and at higher levels than you have right now) at the same time, you declined the in person interview and did one over remotely (telephone or Skype). You did well enough to be afforded an offer. If you wanted to know more about the job/agency/etc, you were afforded the chance to ask questions yourself in the interview. If you failed to ask enough to give you an idea if you would like it or not, that is on you.

And I have no idea how you approached your new supervisor vis-a-vis the visit. Was it "I'd like to come by and meet everyone before I start?" Or was it "I'm going to be in the area house-hunting for my move, and would like to stop by and say hi to the team and get an idea of the commute, location, etc?"

The former...we may be busy and not want you to put yourself out for the 5 minutes we can spare. The latter...I might make a few minutes available the few days you are here looking for a place to live and see what i can move around.

Again, you are being coy about the agency, series, etc, so everyone here can only guess. You have also decried everyone who wonders why you are so insistent on the agency/workcenter providing you an opportunity to visit the workcenter. If you are that concerned about it...take one of the other positions you say you have offers for. This isn't the private sector, and the grades you talk about having offers for aren't so high the pool of applicants is small. In fact, a developmental GS-9 target 13 is likely to have a large number of applicants, some of whom are already doing the job for Uncle Sam (but then the agency would have to break them of bad habits learned at their current agency, hence allowing those outside the agency to apply).

Edited by user Monday, April 16, 2018 7:42:36 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
rbr  
#49 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 7:55:35 AM(UTC)
rbr

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Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: rbr Go to Quoted Post
It's obvious that YOU didn't read the thread.....Where do you see stubborn arrogance? It's called making an informed decision. If you have never had to choose between multiple offers than you have no right to speak on the situation. Go back and read the thread and if you have any thing that directly addresses one the issues maybe we can have a discussion.
Ok...as someone who has had numerous offers (and at higher levels than you have right now) at the same time, you declined the in person interview and did one over remotely (telephone or Skype). You did well enough to be afforded an offer. If you wanted to know more about the job/agency/etc, you were afforded the chance to ask questions yourself in the interview. If you failed to ask enough to give you an idea if you would like it or not, that is on you.

And I have no idea how you approached your new supervisor vis-a-vis the visit. Was it "I'd like to come by and meet everyone before I start?" Or was it "I'm going to be in the area house-hunting for my move, and would like to stop by and say hi to the team and get an idea of the commute, location, etc?"

The former...we may be busy and not want you to put yourself out for the 5 minutes we can spare. The latter...I might make a few minutes available the few days you are here looking for a place to live and see what i can move around.

Again, you are being coy about the agency, series, etc, so everyone here can only guess. You have also decried everyone who wonders why you are so insistent on the agency/workcenter providing you an opportunity to visit the workcenter. If you are that concerned about it...take one of the other positions you say you have offers for. This isn't the private sector, and the grades you talk about having offers for aren't so high the pool of applicants is small. In fact, a developmental GS-9 target 13 is likely to have a large number of applicants, some of whom are already doing the job for Uncle Sam (but then the agency would have to break them of bad habits learned at their current agency, hence allowing those outside the agency to apply).
]

I'm not saying the agency because the goal of my post was to find out if this was common practice so the agency is immaterial. Plus this is a public forum and I am not going to give my personal information out on it. Even agency and location can be narrowed down to identify someone if the right person is looking at it.

As far as your post goes, whether I was a GS-5 or GS-15, I would take the same approach to this situation. I understand that the agency is busy but if I said "I want to come sometime in the next month to check out the agency and talk to my future
supervisor about the position. What is the best time to do it?" I think that is a reasonable request.

I think this may have been the wrong forum to post on because many those who frequent don't actually work for the Federal government and I can tell by their responses.

As far as asking questions during the interview, if the agency is interested in an applicant then they are going to paint themselves in the best light possible. I imagine even if I was able to go during the "official invitation", it would probably be a program put together that doesn't tell the whole story. I was in the military, you know how many people I worked with that said being in the service was nothing like it was described by their recruiter. Only YOU know if you're a good fit for an organization and its incumbent on the candidate (not the agency) to do due diligence in making sure that they take the right job for them which is what I'm trying to do.

I think a two hour visit during a regular workday would give a adequate picture of what to expect coming on board and I'm not really sure how that would be inconvenience. As told the other guy (in 6 straight posts), what good is having someone come in blind and get let go during the probationary period if for not "being a good fit" if that could be avoided beforehand. In my case, I would get a general idea if I was a good fit for that agency and use that information to take the job in which I was the better fit.

Edited by user Monday, April 16, 2018 8:22:41 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rikaku  
#50 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 8:28:47 AM(UTC)

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Rbr,

You have much to learn about federal employment, and about life in general. I would bet the vast majority of those responding, myself included, are experienced feds, GS-13+, with years of experience. And, yes, I have been in the position of having multiple offers at once (actually about four or five times). Your predicament is nothing special, and neither are you.

The solution has been in your face the entire time, you just don't want to acknowledge it. Either take the position or don't, and stop wasting the time of the agency and the board. At the end of the day, not a single soul here cares what decision you choose to make with your life. Multiple people have tried to give you prudent advice, and you've chosen to ignore them all and lash out in a immature manner.

Best of luck. You are going to need it.

Edited by user Monday, April 16, 2018 8:37:51 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

rbr  
#51 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 8:38:18 AM(UTC)
rbr

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Originally Posted by: Rikaku Go to Quoted Post
Rbr,

You have much to learn about federal employment, and life in general. I would be the vast majority of those responded, myself included, are experienced feds, GS-13+, with years of experience. And, yes, have been in positions of having multiple offers at once. Your predicament is nothing special, and neither are you.

The solution has been in your face the entire time, you just don't want to acknowledge it. Either take the position or don't, and stop wasting the time of the agency and the board. At the end of the day, not a single soul here cares what decision you choose to make with your life. Multiple people have tried to give you prudent advice, and you've chosen to ignore them all and lash out in a immature manner.

Best of luck. You are going to need it.


I'm doing pretty well for myself. As far as my predicament goes, it is relevant to me. The same people who "don't care" about my decisions are the same ones, such as yourself, that have an opinion on it. My responses to the posts mirror the post (but if you actually read the thread then you would know that). I posted the question, whether people respond to it is up to them. Someone who is an experienced GS-13 would have taken the time to read the thread and come up with an insightful response, something you clearly didn't do. Maybe that says something about the quality of worker you are by not paying attention to details. If you don't want to waste your time, then maybe you should stop commenting on the thread because you are not really helping.
Rikaku  
#52 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 8:58:32 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: rbr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Rikaku Go to Quoted Post
Rbr,

You have much to learn about federal employment, and life in general. I would be the vast majority of those responded, myself included, are experienced feds, GS-13+, with years of experience. And, yes, have been in positions of having multiple offers at once. Your predicament is nothing special, and neither are you.

The solution has been in your face the entire time, you just don't want to acknowledge it. Either take the position or don't, and stop wasting the time of the agency and the board. At the end of the day, not a single soul here cares what decision you choose to make with your life. Multiple people have tried to give you prudent advice, and you've chosen to ignore them all and lash out in a immature manner.

Best of luck. You are going to need it.


I'm doing pretty well for myself. As far as my predicament goes, it is relevant to me. The same people who "don't care" about my decisions are the same ones, such as yourself, that have an opinion on it. My responses to the posts mirror the post (but if you actually read the thread then you would know that). I posted the question, whether people respond to it is up to them. Someone who is an experienced GS-13 would have taken the time to read the thread and come up with an insightful response, something you clearly didn't do. Maybe that says something about the quality of worker you are by not paying attention to details. If you don't want to waste your time, then maybe you should stop commenting on the thread because you are not really helping.


Ok bud, you have three pages of help yet you either have low reading comprehension or just would rather remain willfully ignorant. The only "help" you seem to be after is validation and for someone to pat you on the back and agree that the agency is in the wrong, tell you are a special special boy for getting multiple offers, and tell you that you are 100% correct. Your initial questions have been answered; no one here knows what else you want. Do you need someone to hold your hand and walk you to the agency and arrange a play-date for you?
rbr  
#53 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 9:04:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rikaku Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: rbr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Rikaku Go to Quoted Post
Rbr,

You have much to learn about federal employment, and life in general. I would be the vast majority of those responded, myself included, are experienced feds, GS-13+, with years of experience. And, yes, have been in positions of having multiple offers at once. Your predicament is nothing special, and neither are you.

The solution has been in your face the entire time, you just don't want to acknowledge it. Either take the position or don't, and stop wasting the time of the agency and the board. At the end of the day, not a single soul here cares what decision you choose to make with your life. Multiple people have tried to give you prudent advice, and you've chosen to ignore them all and lash out in a immature manner.

Best of luck. You are going to need it.


I'm doing pretty well for myself. As far as my predicament goes, it is relevant to me. The same people who "don't care" about my decisions are the same ones, such as yourself, that have an opinion on it. My responses to the posts mirror the post (but if you actually read the thread then you would know that). I posted the question, whether people respond to it is up to them. Someone who is an experienced GS-13 would have taken the time to read the thread and come up with an insightful response, something you clearly didn't do. Maybe that says something about the quality of worker you are by not paying attention to details. If you don't want to waste your time, then maybe you should stop commenting on the thread because you are not really helping.


Ok bud, you have three pages of help yet you either have low reading comprehension or just would rather remain willfully ignorant. The only "help" you seem to be after is validation and for someone to pat you on the back and agree that the agency is in the wrong, tell you are a special special boy for getting multiple offers, and tell you that you are 100% correct. Your initial questions have been answered; no one here knows what else you want. Do you need someone to hold your hand and walk you to the agency and arrange a play-date for you?


I agree, I've already gotten some pretty good answers from some posters. I'm not the one keeping this thread alive. It's people like you who want to add their opinion without adding anything new that I find myself responding to. I have responded to everyone that answers this post. It's important to read the thread, because you waste your own time when writing statements that have been answered and addressed in preceding posts.

Edited by user Monday, April 16, 2018 9:06:36 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

VetPref68  
#54 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 9:20:17 AM(UTC)

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I have been around this forum quite awhile and I see the same folks on this thread.

I would be willing to bet you all of us are current federal employees.

If you fail to listen to those of us in the know, not sure why you would even bother asking a question.
rbr  
#55 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 9:26:00 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: VetPref68 Go to Quoted Post
I have been around this forum quite awhile and I see the same folks on this thread.

I would be willing to bet you all of us are current federal employees.

If you fail to listen to those of us in the know, not sure why you would even bother asking a question.


I don't necessarily have a problem with the answer, I do have a problem with your approach. It's hard to want to take anything you say seriously when you accuse someone of being entitled and arrogant without understanding the situation. That makes you sound bitter. If you look in the thread, you will see other posters who were able to give professional and insightful responses and I took their information into account. I also addressed any counterpoints from my perspective as this is a DISCUSSION forum. In the end, what is posted on this thread will only account for 5% of my decision making process.

Edited by user Monday, April 16, 2018 9:29:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

frankgonzalez  
#56 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 10:34:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rbr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VetPref68 Go to Quoted Post
I have been around this forum quite awhile and I see the same folks on this thread.

I would be willing to bet you all of us are current federal employees.

If you fail to listen to those of us in the know, not sure why you would even bother asking a question.


I don't necessarily have a problem with the answer, I do have a problem with your approach. It's hard to want to take anything you say seriously when you accuse someone of being entitled and arrogant without understanding the situation. That makes you sound bitter. If you look in the thread, you will see other posters who were able to give professional and insightful responses and I took their information into account. I also addressed any counterpoints from my perspective as this is a DISCUSSION forum. In the end, what is posted on this thread will only account for 5% of my decision making process.
Let see...in the military, rarely do you get to check out the new unit to decide if you want to go there. (I'm retired military myself...22+ years). You wanting 2 hours of our time? Sorry, the folks in my office are busy. I "might" be able to squeeze in 15-30 minutes depending on the day.

As for your "GS-5 or GS-15" comment....what rank were you in the military? Dude...different ranks, different circumstances. GS-5? Not likely. GS-15? Probably coming in to manage a largish portfolio or program or something very critical. sp something will be arranged. SES...even more likely. Your statement is like saying saying "E-4 or O-6...it shouldn't matter. Should be given the same opportunity to spend a couple of hours with the unit to see if they want to go there...." Now see how your position seems in the real world?

As for doing well.... I'm doing well...GS-14, military retirement pay and VA disability pay (80% rated)..and no children working at the best large agency in the federal government! I was doing pretty good as a GS-12, so everything since then has been pure bonus. In about 12 years, I plan on retiring, but may do so in less time if I'm not still having fun in my job. That is doing well!

You said you are currently unemployed (IIRC), and have a few offers on the table (GS-9 and -11, with this on in particular leading to GS-13). Unless you are independently wealthy and not needing to work, I wouldn't call that doing well. I call that potentially doing well Not being unemployed and trying to argue that you deserve the opportunity to visit a place that gave you a tentative offer...

As for not sharing any more info...even the series (unless it is so tiny, there are only a handful in the whole government!) would provide a lot of info for use experienced civil servants to provide some insight for you. Or the agency...bet you there are a lot of people here who work or have worked there....

My suggestion (but you do you, okay?) is decline this position and move on as the lack of visit is something you seem to have a major issue with. No point starting a federal career with a chip on your shoulder.

Edited by user Monday, April 16, 2018 10:35:38 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
rbr  
#57 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 11:03:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: rbr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VetPref68 Go to Quoted Post
I have been around this forum quite awhile and I see the same folks on this thread.

I would be willing to bet you all of us are current federal employees.

If you fail to listen to those of us in the know, not sure why you would even bother asking a question.


I don't necessarily have a problem with the answer, I do have a problem with your approach. It's hard to want to take anything you say seriously when you accuse someone of being entitled and arrogant without understanding the situation. That makes you sound bitter. If you look in the thread, you will see other posters who were able to give professional and insightful responses and I took their information into account. I also addressed any counterpoints from my perspective as this is a DISCUSSION forum. In the end, what is posted on this thread will only account for 5% of my decision making process.
Let see...in the military, rarely do you get to check out the new unit to decide if you want to go there. (I'm retired military myself...22+ years). You wanting 2 hours of our time? Sorry, the folks in my office are busy. I "might" be able to squeeze in 15-30 minutes depending on the day.

As for your "GS-5 or GS-15" comment....what rank were you in the military? Dude...different ranks, different circumstances. GS-5? Not likely. GS-15? Probably coming in to manage a largish portfolio or program or something very critical. sp something will be arranged. SES...even more likely. Your statement is like saying saying "E-4 or O-6...it shouldn't matter. Should be given the same opportunity to spend a couple of hours with the unit to see if they want to go there...." Now see how your position seems in the real world?

As for doing well.... I'm doing well...GS-14, military retirement pay and VA disability pay (80% rated)..and no children working at the best large agency in the federal government! I was doing pretty good as a GS-12, so everything since then has been pure bonus. In about 12 years, I plan on retiring, but may do so in less time if I'm not still having fun in my job. That is doing well!

You said you are currently unemployed (IIRC), and have a few offers on the table (GS-9 and -11, with this on in particular leading to GS-13). Unless you are independently wealthy and not needing to work, I wouldn't call that doing well. I call that potentially doing well Not being unemployed and trying to argue that you deserve the opportunity to visit a place that gave you a tentative offer...

As for not sharing any more info...even the series (unless it is so tiny, there are only a handful in the whole government!) would provide a lot of info for use experienced civil servants to provide some insight for you. Or the agency...bet you there are a lot of people here who work or have worked there....

My suggestion (but you do you, okay?) is decline this position and move on as the lack of visit is something you seem to have a major issue with. No point starting a federal career with a chip on your shoulder.


First the federal government is not the military. In the military you are bound by UCMJ to go work and live where you are told whether you like it or not. How is that example equivalent to my situation in which I have the freedom to choose between jobs and where I want to live?

That dumb analogy aside, as far as my well-being, once again someone providing an unsolicited opinion without factual basis to back it up. Even if you defined "well-being" in financial term, you can say I'm doing well enough to thoroughly consider three job different offers with the federal government, which in itself is a lengthy process, without having to work at a short-term job to make ends meet....take that as you may.

As far you being able to "squeeze" enough time to meet with a potential employee because you are "busy", your busy schedule obviously didn't stop you from posting an OP-Ed response to my post in middle of business hours. So if you can make the effort to construct a 500 word response on a Fedsoup forum during work hours, I not sure how much of a sacrifice you would be making by meeting with a perspective hire during that same timeframe.

As for your other points, you can go read the prior posting (unless you're too busy lol) and see my responses there.

Edited by user Monday, April 16, 2018 11:30:05 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

VetPref68  
#58 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 11:57:48 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: rbr Go to Quoted Post

I don't necessarily have a problem with the answer, I do have a problem with your approach. It's hard to want to take anything you say seriously when you accuse someone of being entitled and arrogant without understanding the situation. That makes you sound bitter. If you look in the thread, you will see other posters who were able to give professional and insightful responses and I took their information into account. I also addressed any counterpoints from my perspective as this is a DISCUSSION forum. In the end, what is posted on this thread will only account for 5% of my decision making process.


I am far from bitter....

I just find it comical, that a supervisor stated they won't meet you and then you have to come on FedSoup and question his/her motives.

Edited by user Monday, April 16, 2018 11:58:49 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Beam Reach  
#59 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 12:45:21 PM(UTC)
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since we've wandered so far down the garden path on this one I thought it might be fun to go back and read the original post. Here are some comments on that...

You've got nothing... A TO is just a shiny version of nothing. You've got a vague finding of being "clear to hire" which even the people on this board with decades in HR don't understand.

You were offered an opportunity to interview in person which you declined. Did you think to ask if they were paying per diem and airfare? You didn't want to gamble on paying your own money for the trip and I can't fault you for that, we all have different ideas of what is an acceptable level of risk. Also, job hunting costs are tax deductible so you might at least have recouped a few dollars there. A trip to the facility would also have given you the opportunity to check out the city and possible places to live.

You talk about how this would require a move across the country. If they weren't willing to pay your costs for the interview, they almost certainly aren't going to be paying relocation, especially not for a GS-9.

Speaking of across the country... if this job is on either coast, California or in the DC area, you are in for the shock of your life at the cost of living coming from "somewhere else".

You feel that you missed the opportunity to ask your prospective boss about the work environment? Unless you had a very unusual interview, you would have had that opportunity during the interview. If, after receiving a TO, you have specific questions about the job or work environment, it is perfectly acceptable for you to submit them via email.

Now for the not so pleasant part, the reason everyone is lining up to poke you with a sharp stick is not that you didn't want to pay for the trip, it's not because you exhibited questionable judgement or ability to plan.

The thing that makes this so much fun is you can't seem to accept the fact that someone would behave in a way that is contrary to what you think is right.

You are so thin skinned that you cannot let a post go unanswered. Tell me, is this going to be your response when someone disagrees with you on an official email? Or when a supervisor or peer offers an opposing point of view? Let's assume that I agree that you've been treated horribly in this thread, that's really a completely separate issue from your response. If you'd taken the high road then many of us would be thinking that the other guys were just being jerks and we'd applaud your restraint.

Here's another bit of news. With the current state of affairs anyone who exhibits the kind of instability that you've shown here is going to be put on a watch list. If you're still on probation you'll be shown the door with very little warning. If your job requires a personality test you will be out.

Final bit of advice. Delete this account and all your postings and never mention it to anyone.

Or you can stick around and continue to provide entertainment and pray that no employer ever ties this thread to you.
rbr  
#60 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2018 3:00:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Beam Reach Go to Quoted Post
since we've wandered so far down the garden path on this one I thought it might be fun to go back and read the original post. Here are some comments on that...

You've got nothing... A TO is just a shiny version of nothing. You've got a vague finding of being "clear to hire" which even the people on this board with decades in HR don't understand.

You were offered an opportunity to interview in person which you declined. Did you think to ask if they were paying per diem and airfare? You didn't want to gamble on paying your own money for the trip and I can't fault you for that, we all have different ideas of what is an acceptable level of risk. Also, job hunting costs are tax deductible so you might at least have recouped a few dollars there. A trip to the facility would also have given you the opportunity to check out the city and possible places to live.

You talk about how this would require a move across the country. If they weren't willing to pay your costs for the interview, they almost certainly aren't going to be paying relocation, especially not for a GS-9.

Speaking of across the country... if this job is on either coast, California or in the DC area, you are in for the shock of your life at the cost of living coming from "somewhere else".

You feel that you missed the opportunity to ask your prospective boss about the work environment? Unless you had a very unusual interview, you would have had that opportunity during the interview. If, after receiving a TO, you have specific questions about the job or work environment, it is perfectly acceptable for you to submit them via email.

Now for the not so pleasant part, the reason everyone is lining up to poke you with a sharp stick is not that you didn't want to pay for the trip, it's not because you exhibited questionable judgement or ability to plan.

The thing that makes this so much fun is you can't seem to accept the fact that someone would behave in a way that is contrary to what you think is right.

You are so thin skinned that you cannot let a post go unanswered. Tell me, is this going to be your response when someone disagrees with you on an official email? Or when a supervisor or peer offers an opposing point of view? Let's assume that I agree that you've been treated horribly in this thread, that's really a completely separate issue from your response. If you'd taken the high road then many of us would be thinking that the other guys were just being jerks and we'd applaud your restraint.

Here's another bit of news. With the current state of affairs anyone who exhibits the kind of instability that you've shown here is going to be put on a watch list. If you're still on probation you'll be shown the door with very little warning. If your job requires a personality test you will be out.

Final bit of advice. Delete this account and all your postings and never mention it to anyone.

Or you can stick around and continue to provide entertainment and pray that no employer ever ties this thread to you.


1. At this point I actually do have a final offer and a EOD date....so that point is wrong.

2. I DID ask if the government was paying to fly me to the interview and they said it was on me to pay for the trip

3. I grew up in the area, so there is no point in going to "check out the city" just for *****s and giggles

4. I've lived in both of those places (as well as Hawaii) so you can save the who "shock of your life" lecture when it comes to cost of living

5. What is there to plan for if there is no guarantee I would get the position? I can "plan" to do a lot of things but if the stars don't align, then what am I really planning for? I declined the interview in person and they still offered me a job and now I'm adjusting my plans.

6. I'm not thin-skinned, I have time on my hands, so I'm answering response to my original posts. If I see a statement that is inaccurate or questionable (like the 5 points above) I address and clarify it. That's what you do on a discussion forum. If I view the message as aggressive then I respond in kind. My activity on a Fedsoup forum does not reflect what I would do in a professional setting. This is a public forum and I'm not getting a paycheck to be on here.

As far as entertaining goes, it's pretty entertaining (and sad) that self professed "GS-13" government employees have nothing better to do during their "busy" schedules than to troll a post of someone asking a simple question. What's even worse is that some of them lack reading comprehension skills given they keep asking the same questions from prior posts. As evident by the lack of understanding and numerous assumptions in your post you are no different. T

Edited by user Monday, April 16, 2018 3:16:13 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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