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bozeman  
#1 Posted : Thursday, August 09, 2018 11:30:23 PM(UTC)
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I just got converted to career at my office right before the mass conversion.

others before me are getting letters saying they are now ptf's.

I looked up the pay and they get more money starting out?

what's the other differences?
oldboy  
#2 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2018 1:33:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: bozeman Go to Quoted Post
I just got converted to career at my office right before the mass conversion.

others before me are getting letters saying they are now ptf's.

I looked up the pay and they get more money starting out?

what's the other differences?


$38,439 will be what both positions make.
A PTF does not get paid for holidays so if you divide $38,439 by 2000 ( which is 40 hour weeks) by $38,439, your rate of pay will be $19.22 per hour.

Whereas a regular gets ten paid holidays , divide $38,439 by 2080 and the rate of pay is lower at $18.48.
You are both being paid the same yearly wage.
Other differences are a regular is guaranteed 40 a week you are not, ptfs earn annual as they go , ptfs cannot bid on routes.

Congratulations !
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John Henry on 8/10/2018(UTC)
StrawberryShake  
#3 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2018 8:33:40 AM(UTC)
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Even becoming a PTF is a huge deal especially in small offices where there are no retirements around the corner and making FTR may take a while. That time spent waiting for your spot is not a wash anymore. It counts towards retirement, years of service etc. You get sick leave and your annual doesn't cash out because you don't get cut loose for 5 days. I know people who have been te/cca/non-career since 2007-2008....that is 10 years now that mean virtually nothing. Having these PTF conversions will cut down on that, hopefully they do more mass conversions like this in the future.
thanks 1 user thanked StrawberryShake for this useful post.
John Henry on 8/10/2018(UTC)
ccatoreg  
#4 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2018 7:34:56 PM(UTC)
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I will be converted to a PTF in September, my office is small but very busy...i very rarely work just 40 hours...its always over. I know PTF are not guaranteed 40 hours, but can they actually cut my hours now and just give it to the cca's that didn't get converted? Or would I get first dibs because I'm a regular PTF?
oldboy  
#5 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 6:03:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ccatoreg Go to Quoted Post
I will be converted to a PTF in September, my office is small but very busy...i very rarely work just 40 hours...its always over. I know PTF are not guaranteed 40 hours, but can they actually cut my hours now and just give it to the cca's that didn't get converted? Or would I get first dibs because I'm a regular PTF?


A PTF better have 40 before a CCA does.
It's in article 8 I believe.
roger.d  
#6 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 6:15:11 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: oldboy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ccatoreg Go to Quoted Post
I will be converted to a PTF in September, my office is small but very busy...i very rarely work just 40 hours...its always over. I know PTF are not guaranteed 40 hours, but can they actually cut my hours now and just give it to the cca's that didn't get converted? Or would I get first dibs because I'm a regular PTF?


A PTF better have 40 before a CCA does.
It's in article 8 I believe.


This was an argument I had with my Local way back when. I was getting 35ish hours regular time. 5+ hours OT. Management and the local said I was getting 40 hours. I was going home with a 4 hour day when the TE's were working 8 hours. The Local gave me the run a round with parts of the contract that had nothing to do with hours of work. Many conversations with Stewards from the APWU and NPMHU said my stewards were wrong. Anonymous phone call to the NBA agreed my stewards were wrong. Finally called the NBA and told them who I was. Next day I got the "talk" from my steward. Told him they were jerking me around and I had to take care of myself if they were not going to help.

All has been well with the steward sense then.

I could not find it in the JCAM last night. Might need to read Article 8 of the contract itself.

Career employee should be working 40 hours before non career employee.
Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
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oldboy on 8/11/2018(UTC)
oldboy  
#7 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:51:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: oldboy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ccatoreg Go to Quoted Post
I will be converted to a PTF in September, my office is small but very busy...i very rarely work just 40 hours...its always over. I know PTF are not guaranteed 40 hours, but can they actually cut my hours now and just give it to the cca's that didn't get converted? Or would I get first dibs because I'm a regular PTF?


A PTF better have 40 before a CCA does.
It's in article 8 I believe.


This was an argument I had with my Local way back when. I was getting 35ish hours regular time. 5+ hours OT. Management and the local said I was getting 40 hours. I was going home with a 4 hour day when the TE's were working 8 hours. The Local gave me the run a round with parts of the contract that had nothing to do with hours of work. Many conversations with Stewards from the APWU and NPMHU said my stewards were wrong. Anonymous phone call to the NBA agreed my stewards were wrong. Finally called the NBA and told them who I was. Next day I got the "talk" from my steward. Told him they were jerking me around and I had to take care of myself if they were not going to help.

All has been well with the steward sense then.

I could not find it in the JCAM last night. Might need to read Article 8 of the contract itself.

Career employee should be working 40 hours before non career employee.


Roger,
Try article 7.1.c2 #4 in the National Agreement.
It's also covered in CCA question and answers #67 I believe.
z165012  
#8 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 11:45:27 AM(UTC)
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I don't know how it is on the carrier side, but on the clerk side ive been told that the PTFs in the office need to be getting 40 before bringing in a loaner...

I haven't seen this, I was just told of it, but I frequent an office (as a loaner) with a PTF that gets under 40 on a regular basis and I get over 40 on a regular basis, but management says something along the 'you aren't available' to the home PTF...

I see the 'mass conversion' as a good thing for carriers, unless you love OT, because I see quite a few hours of it going away, as now the PTF will get whatever hours, and it opens the unit for another CCA...in my area there are several offices that have long term carrier injuries that are holding their place as a regular, so a CCA has a hold down on the route, thus taking a CCA out of the 'pool' for AL/SL coverage...in a small office 1 injury, 1 AL, and a random SL does quite a bit of damage, and they have to fight for help because other offices are short as well...

I know as a PTF Clerk if they did a mass PSE conversion it would significantly cut my hours as I get the majority of my hours in other offices...if those offices all of the sudden had people, id be back down to 20-25 a week instead of 35-50 a week
StrawberryShake  
#9 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 11:51:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: z165012 Go to Quoted Post
I don't know how it is on the carrier side, but on the clerk side ive been told that the PTFs in the office need to be getting 40 before bringing in a loaner...

I haven't seen this, I was just told of it, but I frequent an office (as a loaner) with a PTF that gets under 40 on a regular basis and I get over 40 on a regular basis, but management says something along the 'you aren't available' to the home PTF...

I see the 'mass conversion' as a good thing for carriers, unless you love OT, because I see quite a few hours of it going away, as now the PTF will get whatever hours, and it opens the unit for another CCA...in my area there are several offices that have long term carrier injuries that are holding their place as a regular, so a CCA has a hold down on the route, thus taking a CCA out of the 'pool' for AL/SL coverage...in a small office 1 injury, 1 AL, and a random SL does quite a bit of damage, and they have to fight for help because other offices are short as well...

I know as a PTF Clerk if they did a mass PSE conversion it would significantly cut my hours as I get the majority of my hours in other offices...if those offices all of the sudden had people, id be back down to 20-25 a week instead of 35-50 a week


Ptfs can work other offices like a PSE or CCA does. If its a forced issue the CCA/pse most junior goes first. A neighboring office desperate for help might even be willing to foot the bill for overtime.
CareerCarrierAspirations  
#10 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 3:04:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: oldboy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bozeman Go to Quoted Post
I just got converted to career at my office right before the mass conversion.

others before me are getting letters saying they are now ptf's.

I looked up the pay and they get more money starting out?

what's the other differences?


$38,439 will be what both positions make.
A PTF does not get paid for holidays so if you divide $38,439 by 2000 ( which is 40 hour weeks) by $38,439, your rate of pay will be $19.22 per hour.

Whereas a regular gets ten paid holidays , divide $38,439 by 2080 and the rate of pay is lower at $18.48.
You are both being paid the same yearly wage.
Other differences are a regular is guaranteed 40 a week you are not, ptfs earn annual as they go , ptfs cannot bid on routes.

Congratulations !



Above, you mention that PTF's earn annual "as they go"... don't regulars also earn A/L as they go?

Also, aren't PTF's guaranteed 40 hours a week, as long as there's actively working CCA's below them in same office? I had thought the only way a PTF carrier wouldn't get 40 hours was if there was no CCA, and there wasn't enough work hours available in that same scenario.

CareerCarrierAspirations  
#11 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 3:14:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: StrawberryShake Go to Quoted Post
Even becoming a PTF is a huge deal especially in small offices where there are no retirements around the corner and making FTR may take a while. That time spent waiting for your spot is not a wash anymore. It counts towards retirement, years of service etc. You get sick leave and your annual doesn't cash out because you don't get cut loose for 5 days. I know people who have been te/cca/non-career since 2007-2008....that is 10 years now that mean virtually nothing. Having these PTF conversions will cut down on that, hopefully they do more mass conversions like this in the future.




CCA wasn't around in 2008, was it? Was was the non career position they were hired as, for the people you know to be non career carrier for as long as 10 years?? I can't even imagine!!

Hannah Blector  
#12 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 3:17:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CareerCarrierAspirations Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: oldboy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bozeman Go to Quoted Post
I just got converted to career at my office right before the mass conversion.

others before me are getting letters saying they are now ptf's.

I looked up the pay and they get more money starting out?

what's the other differences?


$38,439 will be what both positions make.
A PTF does not get paid for holidays so if you divide $38,439 by 2000 ( which is 40 hour weeks) by $38,439, your rate of pay will be $19.22 per hour.

Whereas a regular gets ten paid holidays , divide $38,439 by 2080 and the rate of pay is lower at $18.48.
You are both being paid the same yearly wage.
Other differences are a regular is guaranteed 40 a week you are not, ptfs earn annual as they go , ptfs cannot bid on routes.

Congratulations !



Above, you mention that PTF's earn annual "as they go"... don't regulars also earn A/L as they go?

Also, aren't PTF's guaranteed 40 hours a week, as long as there's actively working CCA's below them in same office? I had thought the only way a PTF carrier wouldn't get 40 hours was if there was no CCA, and there wasn't enough work hours available in that same scenario.



Regulars also "earn" the annual as they go. However, the entire leave year's annual is advanced at the beginning of the leave year. And the regular could use all of that leave immediately. Then if they do not actually earn it, they would have to repay it.

PTFs are not guaranteed 40 hours. However, there are rules about when they would be worked and when CCAs would be worked. A simple (and not at all likely) example would be if there are 16 hours needing covered on Saturday, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday and none Thursday or Friday. If there was one PTF and one CCA to cover those 64 hours, the PTF is not going to get 40 hours. No need to get into who might get overtime, etc., on those days. I am just showing how availability of work and workers affects hours given to whom. But if an office has a PTF and a CCA and 6 hours needs covered each day, the CCA better hope the PTF doesn't want all of them.
thanks 1 user thanked Hannah Blector for this useful post.
oldboy on 8/11/2018(UTC)
Hannah Blector  
#13 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 3:24:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CareerCarrierAspirations Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: StrawberryShake Go to Quoted Post
Even becoming a PTF is a huge deal especially in small offices where there are no retirements around the corner and making FTR may take a while. That time spent waiting for your spot is not a wash anymore. It counts towards retirement, years of service etc. You get sick leave and your annual doesn't cash out because you don't get cut loose for 5 days. I know people who have been te/cca/non-career since 2007-2008....that is 10 years now that mean virtually nothing. Having these PTF conversions will cut down on that, hopefully they do more mass conversions like this in the future.




CCA wasn't around in 2008, was it? Was was the non career position they were hired as, for the people you know to be non career carrier for as long as 10 years?? I can't even imagine!!



Transitional Employees (TEs) became CCAs when the CCA position was created. Those non-career TEs were furious they took a $6/hr pay cut. However, they got the gift of being put first in line to become career employees. As TEs, they had to beat out compensated vets and non-vets who scored higher than the TEs on the postal test when the USPS hired career carriers. Lots of Compensated Vets and those who aced the Postal Test passed on TE jobs and then got hired ahead of the TEs when there was career hiring (I did that).

But the TEs who became CCAs were put ahead of all those people who had not been hired yet--even if a CCA (former TE) had a very low score on the test and no veterans preference. One TE in my office quit before the CCA program, two became CCAs and our next regular carriers, and one TE did not pass the "personality test" to become a CCA. Without the CCA rules those TEs may have never gotten a career job.
CareerCarrierAspirations  
#14 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 3:25:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CareerCarrierAspirations Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: oldboy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bozeman Go to Quoted Post
I just got converted to career at my office right before the mass conversion.

others before me are getting letters saying they are now ptf's.

I looked up the pay and they get more money starting out?

what's the other differences?


$38,439 will be what both positions make.
A PTF does not get paid for holidays so if you divide $38,439 by 2000 ( which is 40 hour weeks) by $38,439, your rate of pay will be $19.22 per hour.

Whereas a regular gets ten paid holidays , divide $38,439 by 2080 and the rate of pay is lower at $18.48.
You are both being paid the same yearly wage.
Other differences are a regular is guaranteed 40 a week you are not, ptfs earn annual as they go , ptfs cannot bid on routes.

Congratulations !



Above, you mention that PTF's earn annual "as they go"... don't regulars also earn A/L as they go?

Also, aren't PTF's guaranteed 40 hours a week, as long as there's actively working CCA's below them in same office? I had thought the only way a PTF carrier wouldn't get 40 hours was if there was no CCA, and there wasn't enough work hours available in that same scenario.



Regulars also "earn" the annual as they go. However, the entire leave year's annual is advanced at the beginning of the leave year. And the regular could use all of that leave immediately. Then if they do not actually earn it, they would have to repay it.

PTFs are not guaranteed 40 hours. However, there are rules about when they would be worked and when CCAs would be worked. A simple (and not at all likely) example would be if there are 16 hours needing covered on Saturday, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday and none Thursday or Friday. If there was one PTF and one CCA to cover those 64 hours, the PTF is not going to get 40 hours. No need to get into who might get overtime, etc., on those days. I am just showing how availability of work and workers affects hours given to whom. But if an office has a PTF and a CCA and 6 hours needs covered each day, the CCA better hope the PTF doesn't want all of them.




Wow, so with that one hypothetical example of 64 hours needed, the PTF would not get 40 hours and the CCA 24 for the week? It would still just be more or less evenly distributed?

Is there even anything that would force the PTF to be given the more hours of the 2 people in your scenario? Or could the CCA be given the higher number of weekly hours over the PTF?

Hannah Blector  
#15 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 3:41:16 PM(UTC)
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It is who is available when the work is available. I did not want to get in the weeds. There are rules about overtime, penalty overtime, etc., that could come into play. For the PTF to get 40 of those 64 hours, they would have to be worked 2 hours of overtime each of those 4 days and some offices also have "dispatch of value" times that come into play in their office and not others. For instance, in my office non-otdl carriers are forced to work overtime before otdl carriers are given penalty overtime. But 100 miles away the otdl carriers would get penalty overtime and non-otdl carriers are not forced to work overtime. Similar things could happen with PTF/CCA.

I doubt the PTF would be worked 4 ten-hour days (8 hours of overtime) and the CCA 4 6-hour days in my example. But again, that is just one example. We could get in to all kinds of examples and start talking overtime rules and hold down rules.

Maybe you could post an example that you face and someone could weigh in on something that is not a what-if.
John Henry  
#16 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 6:44:36 PM(UTC)

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What if a CCA is on a long term OPT and a PTF carrier comes up short of 40 hours for a week. Is the PTF treated like an unassigned regular with a guarantee and we break the CCA's OPT, or does the PTF make less than 40 hours for that week while the CCA gets the 40 for the route he is on plus say Sunday Amazon and any overtime needed to cover the daily occurrences?
roger.d  
#17 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 7:17:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: John Henry Go to Quoted Post
What if a CCA is on a long term OPT and a PTF carrier comes up short of 40 hours for a week. Is the PTF treated like an unassigned regular with a guarantee and we break the CCA's OPT, or does the PTF make less than 40 hours for that week while the CCA gets the 40 for the route he is on plus say Sunday Amazon and any overtime needed to cover the daily occurrences?


Why would a PTF be treated like an Unassigned Regular?

Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
John Henry  
#18 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 8:19:36 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: John Henry Go to Quoted Post
What if a CCA is on a long term OPT and a PTF carrier comes up short of 40 hours for a week. Is the PTF treated like an unassigned regular with a guarantee and we break the CCA's OPT, or does the PTF make less than 40 hours for that week while the CCA gets the 40 for the route he is on plus say Sunday Amazon and any overtime needed to cover the daily occurrences?


Why would a PTF be treated like an Unassigned Regular?



That seems to be the question. If the PTF doesn't make 40 while CCAs are still working can a CCA be pulled from his OPT to make up the time for a PTF as he would to pulled to make the guaranteed 40 hours for a regular if no other work can be found.
roger.d  
#19 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 8:42:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: John Henry Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: John Henry Go to Quoted Post
What if a CCA is on a long term OPT and a PTF carrier comes up short of 40 hours for a week. Is the PTF treated like an unassigned regular with a guarantee and we break the CCA's OPT, or does the PTF make less than 40 hours for that week while the CCA gets the 40 for the route he is on plus say Sunday Amazon and any overtime needed to cover the daily occurrences?


Why would a PTF be treated like an Unassigned Regular?



That seems to be the question. If the PTF doesn't make 40 while CCAs are still working can a CCA be pulled from his OPT to make up the time for a PTF as he would to pulled to make the guaranteed 40 hours for a regular if no other work can be found.


A PTF is not an Unassigned regular.

Would a junior CCA loose their OPT to make a senior CCA have more hours?

Don't make this more difficult than it is.

Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
IACCA  
#20 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2018 9:49:07 PM(UTC)
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PTFs are not guaranteed 40 hours so other than the OT rules I would guess that the slotting of work would be up to the supervisor according to amount of hours and who is available. In my case being in a small office with only two regular routes, I don't forsee them hiring a new CCA to take my place once I am converted to PTF. Not sure how that would work in a station where maybe there are 4 or more regular routes and only one PTF. In that case they might just bring another CCA in (if they can find one).
"No excuses... Do the work"
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