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MPE2009  
#41 Posted : Thursday, September 13, 2018 3:37:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: oldboy Go to Quoted Post
Oh I see.
I thought you were thanking the other poster for having more respect for draft Dodgers than those who sucked it up.

What about This part
" In fact, I am greatly offended by people who try to make money or get attention on the backs of those who did go to war--like politicians and singers who wear a flag to make money, its sickening".
My question to that quote, how about those who disrespect the flag by burning it, hanging it upside down, or kneeling? Isn't it the same, sickening?

Good post.
No member of the military takes an oath to the flag. We all take an oath to the Constitution. Those who drape the flag and preach their "patriotism" are often the ones most ignorant of the Constitution and the freedoms enumerated in it, and most likely to want to restrict the freedoms of others, IME.

I have no problems with anyone kneeling (in fact, the idea of kneeling vs sitting was suggested by a former Green Beret so as to be respectful in the protest). I do have a problem with those who claim to be PRO standing for the flag wanting to punish those exercising their right to protest the violence and negative behavior they see frequently with little to no consequences for those perpetrating the such. The kneeling isn't about the flag...but unless you are willing to listen to those kneeling, you will never understand the why.

I may not agree with you, but if you want to protest or state your opinion, I'll defend your right to say it. I'll also point out where that opinion is based in a false narrative or bad facts, and defend those whose opinion differs from yours. I do draw the line at those calling for violence towards those they disagree with.

Just my thoughts as a military retiree, who grew up a military brat (father was a military retiree), whose grandparents served in WWII and great-grand parents served in WWI and so on back to the Spanish-American War.


I disagree with the kneeling. But I also see no point in playing the national anthem or any other kind of pre-game ceremony. Having a ceremony doesn't change the fact that it's simply a meaningless game compared to the important things in life, such as family, financial and physical security, freedom, etc. So why in the world does anyone pay attention to tripe like whether or not a meaningless ceremony was held with false idols kneeling or standing? Do we really think those standing are showing respect? Or are they simply conditioned to stand in the same way we hold a door open for somebody? And eventually that'll be the same thing for those kneeling, some will do it out of true thoughtful protest while others will kneel to be one of the cool guys kneeling, no actual thought going into their actions.
Hannah Blector  
#42 Posted : Thursday, September 13, 2018 4:51:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: oldboy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
Maybe the problem is an employer creating a situation in which employees are confronted with a PR stunt that has nothing to do with their job skills or work? Yes, the employer is the boss. But why should anything go just to satisfy the emotions of some boss? There are things I would not do for an employer. And if they would punish me, that is their business. Since the context here is a show of patriotism, how silly is it that a person feels the need to get in a big group and prove they are more patriotic than someone else? And if they do, why do they have to play a football game at that time? Maybe taxpayers can all be forced to pay millions in tax dollars to have a big parade to make someone who avoided military service look tough? I better stop. I am visualizing a lot of scenes from a lot of countries. Why do I keep seeing men with bad haircuts in them?


So you keep bringing up draft Dodgers, are you targeting all 60,000 who draft dodged, and the 30 000 that fled to Canada?
Or are you just targeting the president again?


I respect the decisions of others, even if I don't agree with them. My dad respected the guy who went to prison because he stood up for what he believed. He was a strong person.

What I disrespect are hypocrites, be it the politician or preacher who does not live as he is paid to proclaim others should live (like the family values politician doing the boys in a motel room). ANYONE who avoided the draft and owns that decision is far different from ANYONE who did so and then tries to project military toughness or love for the military.

And I have way more disrespect for people who steal through bankruptcies and not paying workers. I have had two very wealthy persons do that to me. I don't know their stand on the draft because that would be a minor thing to me, especially when compared to being a thief.

You can insert whatever name you want because I feel the same way about anyone I have described. Mine is a moral stand, not a political one. And, fwiw, I am very conservative.
IACCA  
#43 Posted : Thursday, September 13, 2018 6:04:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: bobbob1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Postaldude82 Go to Quoted Post
Im not a trump supporter but I think he is a damn joke. Why dont he enlist in service before he says he has sacrificed everything. He hasnt sacrificed jack. I wont be buying anymore nike products after this either.


i dont care about nike or football, but he did sacrifice a lot... unless you dont think a football career (and millions of dollars) a lot.


what I do love is how angry trumpeters like craig are.


To play devil's advocate here, he turned down a contract and nobody else wanted to give him what he wanted. He turned down offers so he is out of the league. His sacrifice's or what he considers a sacrifice were self induced. He had more than one opportunity to sign with a team and compete for a job but he decided it wasn't enough money or guarantees. However, he is making millions off of Nike now so it doesn't matter. Even a poll that Nike put out shows that their intent was to increase sales wit the 16-29 aged male market, and that this campaign was worth losing out on the other groups that would leave Nike to increase this age group's business. There was no sacrifice on anyone's part here...
"No excuses... Do the work"
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oldboy on 9/13/2018(UTC)
Mamha  
#44 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2018 3:20:40 AM(UTC)
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Why do white folks always feel the need to try and dictate what black people should or should not get mad about.

Edited by user Friday, September 14, 2018 3:21:12 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hannah Blector  
#45 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2018 3:44:50 AM(UTC)
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Those making hay by stirring stuff up probably drown out the fact that people of all colors are upset about the same things. And one of those things is the stirring up of things for self-enrichment.
MPE2009  
#46 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2018 4:01:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mamha Go to Quoted Post
Why do white folks always feel the need to try and dictate what black people should or should not get mad about.


White folks have the same right to have opinions on issues which upset black people or any other people for that matter. It would however be more useful if all the different people would take the time to actually discuss the issues which cause the animosity, even the small things. It might even be nice if we could start by working on lessening the impact and fixing many of the small things first. But having been the minority in both an overseas locations and stateside locations, I found most people to be blinded by some level of prejudice regardless of color, education or financial status. If only we could get rid of that ridiculous swear word where we call anyone who demonstrates any level of prejudice a racist. Prejudiced, yes we all are to one degree or another. Racist is a different animal and improperly applied 99% of the time.
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oldboy on 9/14/2018(UTC)
RodOrRob  
#47 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2018 4:02:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: IACCA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bobbob1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Postaldude82 Go to Quoted Post
Im not a trump supporter but I think he is a damn joke. Why dont he enlist in service before he says he has sacrificed everything. He hasnt sacrificed jack. I wont be buying anymore nike products after this either.


i dont care about nike or football, but he did sacrifice a lot... unless you dont think a football career (and millions of dollars) a lot.


what I do love is how angry trumpeters like craig are.


To play devil's advocate here, he turned down a contract and nobody else wanted to give him what he wanted. He turned down offers so he is out of the league. His sacrifice's or what he considers a sacrifice were self induced. He had more than one opportunity to sign with a team and compete for a job but he decided it wasn't enough money or guarantees. However, he is making millions off of Nike now so it doesn't matter. Even a poll that Nike put out shows that their intent was to increase sales wit the 16-29 aged male market, and that this campaign was worth losing out on the other groups that would leave Nike to increase this age group's business. There was no sacrifice on anyone's part here...


And when his case against the NFL where the owners colluded to keep him out of the league goes to trial, and he wins...then what you said will be???

You can't speculate that he didn't get what he wanted, when it's possible there was no "getting" to be had.

...Time will tell.
frankgonzalez  
#48 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2018 4:23:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: oldboy Go to Quoted Post
White police kill more white people than they do minorities.
Blacks kill more blacks than white people do.
Blacks kill more whites than whites kill blacks.
.
You know why people do not take your one sided arguement seriously?
It's because every time a black person kills a white person it's just news, but when the roles are reversed all hell breaks lose.
They can keep kneeling and trying to gain attention by disrespecting the flag, but until all races are treated equally, ( no affirmative action, or one sided interest groups) then people like me will never listen, because your hearing is not omni-directional.
You are telling me I'm not listening when it is people like you who only want us to hear your voice. Well it works both ways brother.
This is why Trump won the election.

Oh, thank you for your service.
1st...no need to thank me for doing my time. Wasn't for you...I did it because it is something I think everyone should do (I think the concept of duty found in the Heinlein book "Starship Troopers"---NOT the movie of the same name!!-- to be a good ideal). This country provides me many freedoms, I can at least pay it back with a few years of my life (ok...22+ years and a few bones and some blood..).

One sided? Really?

Let's see...
In the state of Colorado (prior to the state legalizing Marijuana), a study was done of traffic stops and searches. Minorities were 2-3 times as likely to be stopped (traffic stops or on the street) by the police and searched than Whites. HOWEVER....it was found that the police found illegal narcotics and weapons more frequently on Whites than minorities. Therefore, if truly using correct criminal profiling, Whites should be the target of stops and searches. But that was not the case...
http://www.latimes.com/local/la...ties-20170619-story.html
https://www.nationalgeographic.c...top-race-police-traffic/
https://splinternews.com/what-a-...tops-tells-us-1796265506

Hispanics have their citizenship questioned frequently (and I am a blue-eyed, fair skinned Borinqueno, and I have had that question several times from police when they see my name...but not before). Arapaio was notorious for this. And then you wonder why minorities are hesitant to talk to police? Heck, The US government has deported US citizens to Mexico simply because they had Spanish names, and when eventually discovered, simply said "oops"! When major errors like that occur, someone should be held accountable.

And even recently, we see a White police officer break and enter into a Black man's apartment and shoot him dead. She claimed she thought it was her apartment...yet a few days later, she is arrested (and she turned herself in to the Tx Rangers in a different county)...and yet the local police got a search warrant to search the victim's apartment (it was a crime scene...why did they need a search warrant?) and declared they found marijuana! This appears to be an attempt to stigmatize the victim as he had a clean record up to his being killed.

And so on.

Most people are killed by someone they know. Hence the info you provided. But when you go outside that realm...minorities are more likely to be killed or abused by the police than Whites. Not saying it can't or doesn't happen to Whites, only the likelihood of being injured or shot and/or killed decreases astronomically if you happen to be White.

Remember, unless you are willing to dig deeper, stats are not your friend.

Edited by user Friday, September 14, 2018 4:31:30 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
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