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Federal Career Planning and Development

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rjc  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, January 1, 2019 6:43:10 PM(UTC)
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Is it easier to negotiate a salary when you go from a GS 12 to GS 13 in a different agency? From my experience agencies run things completely different from each other and if a manager really wanted someone they could most likely make it happen.

OPM only states a minimum increase of 2 steps higher than what you currently make when you go up a gs level. But there isn't anything that states they can't give you more than a 2 step increase.

So does anyone have experience they can share about getting more than a 2 step bump in the next GS level or experience being denied?
HR Bubba  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 2, 2019 4:29:58 AM(UTC)

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Current federal employees do not get to negotiate their salary. Federal pay setting rules dictate how pay will be set for current feds, but agencies do have some discretion in what rule they use to set the pay. If the person is selected from an internal list an agency can use the 2 step rule or the Highest Previous Rate (HPR) rule; if the person is selected from an external list they can set the pay at the step 1 rate, use HPR rule or potentially use superior qualifications. It will be difficult for you to get an exact answer as agencies have some discretion in which rule they apply/how they set pay and internal policies may vary from agency to agency.
rjc  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, January 2, 2019 5:20:11 AM(UTC)
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@HR Bubba

Ya I understand the set rules for the yearly step increases and the multi year increases the higher up you go. As for the the internal candidates it seems like you are reaffirming my thoughts that they "can" follow the HPR... but Agencies have so many internal rules that they could potentially go beyond the HPR.
nembamike  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, January 2, 2019 7:25:23 AM(UTC)

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The best your going to get is 2 steps. If your moving from one locality to another that may affect it up or down also.
HR Bubba  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, January 2, 2019 7:29:44 AM(UTC)

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No, they cannot go beyond HPR.
djp  
#6 Posted : Thursday, January 3, 2019 11:54:11 AM(UTC)

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it depends....

Q1 are both jobs GS system jobs?

Q2 Are they special pay jobs?

previously in my career I was in a special pay job series they I got a promotion to the next grade in a different series with no special pay.

step 1 convert special pay to standard pay step equivalent then do the 2 step rule. I went from I believe a 9-2 to an 11-6.
HR Bubba  
#7 Posted : Friday, January 4, 2019 3:17:11 AM(UTC)

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The OP mentioned GS-12 to GS-13 so I limited my answers to GS pay setting. OP did not mention special pay so I didn't want to muddy the waters with extra information; additionally, although a special pay rate may be used as HPR it must meet some some specific criteria to do so. Finally, if you went from GS-9-2 to 11-6 they did not use the two step rule. In your case, the two step rule would have resulted in your pay being set at GS-11-1.
rjc  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, January 9, 2019 6:04:49 PM(UTC)
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Thanks Bubba. After further digging u were right...

One thing I couldn't find was what if I get a new offer from a new agency that is a GS 13. Then provide an outside offer that is like GS step 8 equivalent. Can the agency provide a counter offer to match above the HPR. Currently only option I see is a recruitment incentive but those only last 4 years at 25% at longest.

Thoughts?
HR Bubba  
#9 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2019 4:20:33 AM(UTC)

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In general, federal agencies do not match pay. In some instances, pay may be set using the superior qualifications authority (if the person is eligible), but this is based on qualifications not on outside offers. We often use the outside offer as supporting documentation when working the approval package, but the approval is based on qualifications not on the offer. The reason the fed does not match salaries is because civilian salaries are often higher than fed salary for the same work; the disparity in salary is usually made up because of the benefits package that feds receive (which is typically better than the civilian sector). For current feds, the ability to negotiate salary is extremely limited (particularly if you are GS to GS). Also, current feds are not eligible for a recruitment incentive; they may receive a relocation incentive if the position requires a PCS move and these usually require some kind of service agreement.

rjc  
#10 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2019 4:33:47 AM(UTC)
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1. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain things in detail for me.
2. You are shattering my plans... but again thank you for simplifying the OPM for me.

3 more questions then I believe I will be out of ideas and will accept my fate.

- when you say "generally" do you mean it's possible but not probable?
- Superior Quality is only for New Fed Hires correct? doesn't make sense because what if I get my PHD while in service... but w/e rules are rules.
- Some jobs are posted as GS 11 - 13 and you can apply to either of those grades, and some are posted as GS 11 w/ a promotional potential of GS 13. Since i'm already a GS 12 Step 5 can they or would they likely offer me a GS 13 with HPR from the get go? I imagine they wouldn't just start me at an 11, but at the very least my current GS 12.

I wish the fed followed the merit system from the private sector. I always thought that Hiring Managers or Managers could make things happen and fight for you if they really liked you, but i'm starting to realize they all have their hands tied.

Thanks again for the help HR BUBBA
HR Bubba  
#11 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2019 8:01:23 AM(UTC)

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- when you say "generally" do you mean it's possible but not probable?

* I say generally because there are many, many different pay schedules in the fed (e.g., GS, NH, GG, etc.) and although I am familiar with some, I am not familiar with all. GS pay setting is pretty straight forward, but demo projects such as acqdemo & labdemo have their own operating procedures/pay setting procedures which offer more flexibility in how pay is set.

- Superior Quality is only for New Fed Hires correct? doesn't make sense because what if I get my PHD while in service... but w/e rules are rules.

* Correct, it applies to new hires. As for education, while I understand your point I believe the counterpoint is: Does the position "require" the advanced education? If not, then why should the fed pay more money to get the same work done when they could simply hire someone who doesn't have/need the education? If a manager believes that the education is value-added there are other mechanisms in place to "reward' the employee without causing on ongoing budget hit due to a salary increase (e.g., tuition assistance/loan repayment - 1 time hit to the budget).

- Some jobs are posted as GS 11 - 13 and you can apply to either of those grades, and some are posted as GS 11 w/ a promotional potential of GS 13. Since i'm already a GS 12 Step 5 can they or would they likely offer me a GS 13 with HPR from the get go? I imagine they wouldn't just start me at an 11, but at the very least my current GS 12.

* After GS-11, all GS positions advance 1 grade at a time (e.g., GS-11, 12, 13, etc.), so if you see it announced as GS-11-13 they are probably issuing lists at all three grades (11,12 & 13) and the hiring official can make the selection at any grade; if you see it as GS-11 w/ promotion potential to 13 then they are probably issuing only a GS-11 list (they list the promotion potential to be in compliance with fed regs/merit principles).

As for what they may offer you...depends. As I said, the hiring official can make the selection at any grade for which they have a list. Using the example of GS-11 to GS-13 (lists at all grades - 11, 12 & 13), let's assume that you were referred at all grades: the hiring official could select you at any of the grades (11, 12 or 13). Just because someone is qualified/eligible for a promotion does not mean that a hiring official has to offer a position at any specific grade. Let's say you applied under Merit Promotion procedures as a current fed and were selected at the 13, your pay could be set using the 2 step rule (GS-13 step 2) or HPR (GS-13 step 1). In my agency, we set pay in a manner that is most beneficial to the employee and in your case that would be GS-13 step 2 using 2 step rule.

** If you were selected at the 12 there would be no change in pay (unless there was a change in locality pay due to a PCS move) and if you were selected at the 11 level your pay would be set using HPR (GS-11 step 10).

I wish the fed followed the merit system from the private sector. I always thought that Hiring Managers or Managers could make things happen and fight for you if they really liked you, but i'm starting to realize they all have their hands tied.

* Hiring managers do not set pay, this is done by HR as they are the ones trained in pay setting. Although there are many savvy managers out there who know how to do it just as good as an HR person, this responsibility rests with HR.

NOTE: I try to tailor my responses for GS pay setting.
birdonamission  
#12 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2019 12:43:59 PM(UTC)
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I got selected for GS-13, but mine will be very straight forward...GS-12 Step 6 to GS-13 Step 3 under the "2 Step Rule." No salary negotitation nor pay-setting involved, which is fine by me.

We do learn a lot about all this sometimes-confusing stuff from the good folks here, which is an awesome thing.
frankgonzalez  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, January 22, 2019 2:58:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rjc Go to Quoted Post
I wish the fed followed the merit system from the private sector. I always thought that Hiring Managers or Managers could make things happen and fight for you if they really liked you, but i'm starting to realize they all have their hands tied.
If you want this, you would also have to allow management the other side of the private sector...the ability to fire you at will with little protections like the MSPB.

And HR Bubba is a wonderful resource to have here!

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
thanks 1 user thanked frankgonzalez for this useful post.
HR Bubba on 1/23/2019(UTC)
birdonamission  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, January 22, 2019 7:57:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post
And HR Bubba is a wonderful resource to have here!


I agree, but you, too, though.

thanks 2 users thanked birdonamission for this useful post.
HR Bubba on 1/23/2019(UTC), frankgonzalez on 1/25/2019(UTC)
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