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rbr  
#1 Posted : Friday, January 4, 2019 8:16:20 AM(UTC)
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What job did you apply for? What was the clearance level?......Higher level TS usually requires a poly regardless of job

That's pretty weird that you were given a poly as one of the selling points for ICE compared to other agencies is that they don't usually require polygraphs. However, if it was clearly stated on the job announcement that passing the polygraph was a condition for employment and you applied for it, then you would have little recourse. Go back and look at the job announcement and see what the requirements are before you think about fighting it.
rbr  
#2 Posted : Friday, January 4, 2019 8:35:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: chipperjones Go to Quoted Post
It was for special Agent and it was Secret clearance level.

It does not state that PASSING a polygraph is required as it does with the FBI and DEA...etc. it says this:

Background/Security Investigation: Candidates must obtain and maintain a Secret Clearance

Polygraph: A pre-employment polygraph may be administered.

Nothing about you MUST pass a poly simply says one may be administered, but like I said it is not being given to everyone. There was a Direct Hire announcement this year as well that says the same, but they are getting hired within 6 months, no polygraph...


Can you link the job announcement.....
rbr  
#3 Posted : Friday, January 4, 2019 8:43:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: chipperjones Go to Quoted Post
https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/440178500/


Looking at the job announcement, it seems that they administer a polygraph if something unexpected pops up in your background investigation. Because it says that a one "may be administered", it provides them cover because that indicates not everyone would be given one. I would advise you to reach out to the personal security office and see which question you were flagged for. At least with that information, you can be more prepared next time. Polygraphs suck....but there will be little recourse you have based on how the announcement was written.
someoldguy  
#4 Posted : Friday, January 4, 2019 11:43:27 AM(UTC)
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I am not too familiar with DHS polygraphs... I thought CBP was the only part of DHS doing the poly and they were in the news (in a bad way) for their INSANE failure rate.

Some IC agencies will do what they call a "specific issue" test if something comes up that they want to look into. Not sure if that is what ICE did here.

They will probably deny that the poly is the sole issue you were denied and talk about the "whole person" concept but yeah.
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Endless Summer  
#5 Posted : Friday, January 4, 2019 12:16:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: chipperjones Go to Quoted Post
Thank you for the insight, I believe I was singled out because I did have a failed polygraph before form FAMS, for the drug question, never touched a drug in my life...I wasn't too shaken up about it because I didn't really want that job. But for HSI to come back and for them to just "randomly" polygraph me and then DQ me for it, doesn't seem fair or ethical. As I said I am a current DHS employee and have a lot of responsibility with access to about 30 systems.

The point I'm making is, it the Polygraph is the SOLE reason they are denying me on, then why not polygraph everyone? do you know who I can go to? EEO? MSPB? I've tried congressman, but they are 100% useless. I cant let this one go, like I did the FAMs one. Not when I thought I was waiting for an EOD call. I'm a disabled veteran and I feel that they held onto my medical for an additional 6 months in order to get polygraph in place so they can poly me and DQ me.


I know it sucks to get rejected at any stage but, just as an observer it doesn't seem like they randomly selected you for a poly. You'd failed one previously and it isn't unreasonable to expect them to be curious enough to give you another. You might even say they went overboard by even considering you, they had to know about the failed poly?

I might be misunderstanding the comment about your medical, are you suggesting that the VA withheld your disability certification so another agency could reject you based on a failed poly?

If you feel that you've been wronged I urge you to use every option available to fight, but just based on what little I've read it seems like a tough battle.

Best wishes
George Maschke  
#6 Posted : Friday, January 4, 2019 4:29:27 PM(UTC)
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I agree that you were subjected to a hiring requirement that others are not. Unfortunately, there is virtually no meaningful appeal process available to those who fail pre-employment polygraph “tests” despite telling the truth. At a minimum, it would be prudent to write a letter in reply to your rejection letter simply affirming that you told the truth during your polygraph, and send it by certified, return-receipt mail. I would avoid any attempt to provide an explanation for why you may have “failed” this scientifically baseless procedure that is wrongly called a “test.” Your letter should be added to your applicant file (a permanent record) and will document the fact that you did not, through your silence, tacitly concur with the polygraph operator’s opinion that you lied.

You mentioned that you had a disability rating from the Veterans’ Administration. It’s possible that the polygraph was used as a pretext to arbitrarily disqualify you on that basis. You may be interested in documentation of the case of an applicant for a senior position in the U.S. Secret Service who is challenging the rejection of his application based on polygraph results. It appears in his case that the polygraph was used as a pretext to reject his application based on a disability. The applicant has filed an OIG complaint with DHS. Details and copies of filings from this case are available here:

https://antipolygraph.or...s/YaBB.pl?num=1516077456

Note also that racial prejudice may very well be a factor in polygraph screening. A suppressed federal study suggests that innocent blacks are more likely to fail the polygraph than innocent whites:

https://antipolygraph.or...pi-racial-bias-study.pdf
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Hawaiiannative  
#7 Posted : Saturday, January 5, 2019 11:34:21 AM(UTC)
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It really doesn't matter. They didn't want you, the poly was just one part of the equation. If you are a minority, you could play the race card, but it won't change much.

I failed a poly before, and I was telling the truth. My opinion of polygraphs is that they are really a psych test of mumbo jumbo. Skilled psychopaths can pass a poly with lying on every single question.

Personally, move forward to a different position, get in on a lower level and move up.
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