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No Place Like Home  
#181 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2019 5:34:10 PM(UTC)
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For what it's worth:
Link stating Lawmakers who will forfeit their salaries during the shutdown.
https://thehill.com/home...ries-during-the-shutdown

Link for banks offering assistance
https://www.cnbc.com/201...ients-amid-shutdown.html

My credit union is giving 0% financing for the amount of last direct deposit. Of course they can also look and see how much in my savings so I don't know if I would qualify for a "free loan".
thanks 1 user thanked No Place Like Home for this useful post.
spence on 1/7/2019(UTC)
No Place Like Home  
#182 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2019 6:07:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: LieutenantBlantyre Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: chriswt25 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LieutenantBlantyre Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kitkatma Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jimmy81 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: chriswt25 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jimmy81 Go to Quoted Post
Looks like the Democrats will be passing funding bills for individual agencies, starting with IRS. There will be a lot of pressure to sign that. Delaying tax refunds has big consequences.


Say that they do that and then it passes the Senate (which it won't) or if the Senate does pass it and it goes to the Presidents desk to sign (which he won't) Say all of that does happen and they open the IRS, we may go back to work, but we still won't get paid. They are not going to pay certain civilian government workers, and not others. At least I don't think they will be allowed to pay us.


You will get paid once your agency is funded, just like all the other currently funded agencies. But you are right that the Republicans probably will not allow individual bills. In fact, the Republicans tried to do the exact same thing in the 2013 shutdown. The Dems shot them all down.


This is just nuts! Congress IS NOT doing their job and they are getting paid. From my perspective, they're not even trying. Congress DOES NOT require the President's signature to pass a bill. Yes it is easier if the President does sign, but there are provisions in the Constitution for veto overrides.


You have to be able to rustle up a two-thirds majority in both chambers for that. Speaker Pelosi has a majority in the House but not two-thirds. Majority Leader McConnell has a majority in the Senate but not two-thirds. Unless everybody joins hands and works together between the parties in both the House and the Senate with two-thirds voting to override in each chamber, no veto override is possible.

The House reflects the spirit and passion of the country. Right now the country is split pretty finely to where the band-aids have been ripped off a few too many tensions and festering angers. The Senate shows that the states are divided too. We're not in a kumbaya moment.



You are right. Even if both houses pass this Pelosi "power play" show, Trump isn't about to sign it, and there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that there are enough votes to override his veto.

Meanwhile, we in AM should be receiving another report to work call sometime this week, (this time for real) to show up and work without pay shortly. There goes any possibility of unemployment or getting a temporary job, unless you want to or are willing to more than 40 hours a week.


Even if we get the call, there won't be any sense for 55/56, 182/184, 18/19, and a few of the others with separate numbers to be re-opened. FA & TAS will still be shuttered plus we won't be touching refund returns so no need for TPP. All we're allowed to do under current law & interpretation is baldue, procedural, and possibly tax law if it relates to securing a return. Even providing transcripts would become out of scope as we'd bump up against the no-faxing policy change. Leaving a message up on the specialties saying that they're still not being worked would be better than having people sit there & get abused. We're going to get plenty of abuse plus Frivolous Arguments.


We will be AHOD on app 55 so that we can tell people no appointments can be made at this time to pick up their transcripts. Then we will have to tell them the ways to retrieve their own transcripts online or offer to mail or fax them. Of course they will need it for school and they will have never filed before so the only other option will be for them to file 4506T. They will complain they will get kicked out of school or lose their financing if they don't get their transcript today. All we can do is apologize and say hopefully the school will understand the government was shutdown - yeah right they won't. Then there will be those people that demand appointment to get their returns stamped because they failed to file by the original due date and now it's an emergency to get it submitted so they can get a loan. What a vicious circle. Oh and we get to do that with a smile in our voice while not getting paid!! Unless a miracle happens and we get funded before our recall phone call.
phillysteak  
#183 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2019 6:45:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nonewsnotgood Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: chriswt25 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hired 2015 Go to Quoted Post
I didn't get a call. Our call site was completely shutdown so there are no managers working to call. I'm just a seasonal CSR AM that like many was in skill up tax law training.

I applied for unemployment that I need to submit paperwork that I haven't gathered by Monday to be approved. I applied for unemployment as a backup plan just in case seasonals don't get back pay. Does anyone know for sure seasonals would get backpay?

In my state unemployment has to review submitted paperwork that will take 2 weeks. Any money they would pay goes on a prepaid like card that I intended to leave on the card until I know for sure if I am getting back pay. If I get recalled and get back pay I just call unemployment and they will take the money back from the card. I reported I am a furlough federal worker and my state unemployment said as long I can't say for certain when my return to service date is or for certain I will be paid back pay I am eligible to apply for unemployment in my state.

I volunteer regularly at a local food pantry. In the line today there were coworkers from my call site and other federal agency employees in need. People had to use their last check to pay rent, utilities, medical bills, car notes, credit card, student loans, etc. One person said they walked a good 3 miles to the pantry because they can't waste gas not knowing if they will be recalled, will get back pay or get unemployment.

Don't just scare people with some investigation for applying for unemployment. Instead give them the correct facts and tell them to reach out to community services. My unemployment office is referring furloughed federal workers to community resources.

The private sector teaches you to be ahead of the game, be prepared and arrive 5 minutes early or you'll be 15 minutes late.



Nobody is trying to scare or discourage people into not applying for unemployment, What was pointed out are facts from what certain people encountered in 2013. Where you an employee then?

Not every state offers a prepaid card for benefits. Some either send you a check or direct deposit your entitlement to a bank account, so these people would have to pay the money back.

As far as seasonal's getting back paid, we will IF Congress puts through a bill and the President signs it. In 2013 seasonal's in AM did not get paid because they made sure they furloughed us on 9/29/2013 and the shutdown started 10/1/2013. In that case the seasonal's did get unemployment. The perms were the ones that had issues (the ones that took unemployment instead of waiting to come back and get back pay.) As someone else also stated, there were instances where people did not do what they were supposed to and suffered consequences.

What it comes down to is if you desperately need the money, then get the unemployment. If not, then you MAY be better off to wait.

I have been to this rodeo too any times with these shutdowns. As difficult as it is, I make sure that I put some money on the side because this can and will happen again and again because of the clowns that have us at their mercy.


I wouldn't worry about causing problems if you apply for UC. If you get it and then are called back then repay it. If someone later on says you didn't then show them the proof you repaid it. That's one thing I would wouldn't lose sleep over.

Face it you may need to file for UC. I heard on the news Trump said this could be MONTHS or YEARS. Now it's not going to be years. And even months is a stretch. Yeah if you need UC file for it and then pay it back when this crap is over.


I figured this gonna be long, so I applied for UC the first week Dec 23-29. If we get back pay, I just repay the UC back. It make it easier for me at least.
Red  
#184 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2019 6:50:44 PM(UTC)

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If people can't get their refunds, they will call Congress and raise hell. Maybe that is what it will take to get some action.
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caligurl0222 on 1/6/2019(UTC)
JustFedUp  
#185 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2019 7:53:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Red Go to Quoted Post
If people can't get their refunds, they will call Congress and raise hell. Maybe that is what it will take to get some action.


Except the problem is not with the Congress, it is with the current occupant living in the White House.
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spence on 1/7/2019(UTC)
chriswt25  
#186 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2019 8:15:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: JustFedUp Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Red Go to Quoted Post
If people can't get their refunds, they will call Congress and raise hell. Maybe that is what it will take to get some action.


Except the problem is not with the Congress, it is with the current occupant living in the White House.


I think they all are deficient. Both sides in this are playing games. The egos are astounding, and we are the pawns.
dmellow  
#187 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2019 8:26:06 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Red Go to Quoted Post
If people can't get their refunds, they will call Congress and raise hell. Maybe that is what it will take to get some action.


I think you are right that the mounting pressure from people will bring this shutdown to an end. This isn't political because furloughed workers are from all parties. The president and parts of our Congress knows that if there is no shutdown, they have no leaverage to get what they want. We are the pawns being held hostage and some of the things being said are infuriating. They want to call this a "strike" instead of a shutdown. If I am on "strike", I have a choice to work and get paid. That it doesn't matter about the people furloughed because they are mostly from a "certain" political party. Really? Are they more deserving of financial pain? I don't like hearing that "most" furloughed workers are willing to hold out as long as it takes to get a certain outcome. No one asked me. I wasn't polled. I'm sure the American people see thru that. If I were working, I wouldn't believe those furloughed deserve it and are happy to do it to help out our country.

Once people feel the pain of delayed refunds and the loss of a mortgage or student aid because they can't get transcripts, they will wake up. Reality will hit them real soon and they will realize it's not just about closed parks and museums.
ashulein  
#188 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2019 8:56:02 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Red Go to Quoted Post
If people can't get their refunds, they will call Congress and raise hell. Maybe that is what it will take to get some action.


I think we are a few too many bridges away before we cross that one there. Think about it, as of right now there isn't even a first day of the filing season that has been announced but for the sake of the argument lets just use 2018 as the same start to 2019. So let's just say the filing season starts on 1/29/19 and like normal a whole bunch of people are all Johnny on the Spot filing electronically the second they can. Ignore TPP, IVO, or anything else that can extend the refund being paid (since those things extend refunds all on their own) and just go with the normal three week timeframe for refunds to be received after they are initially filed. That means that refunds would still be considered timely if they are received by 2/19/19 (over six weeks from today).

The longest shutdown ever was 21 days and we will hit that on 1/12/19. Basically we would have to have this shutdown go on two weeks longer than any previous shutdown for the filing season to be impacted and over five weeks for folks' refunds to truly be impacted. That would mean a total time that the government would be "shutdown" would be about 60 days... or about 3 times longer than the currently longest shutdown. That would be beyond unprecedented in the scope of prior government appropriation impasses. Now maybe we are in such times, and only time will tell, but I wouldn't bet the farm on filing season being impacted at this point... or thinking that impacted refunds will light a fire under the powers that be. In my opinion, of course.
spence  
#189 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 12:07:15 AM(UTC)

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I think if AM CSRs are called back to work without pay before the shutdown is resolved, you'd be allowed to finish any training on the new tax law because preparing for the new tax law is one of the things that's actually funded and the NTEU email about the IRS's proposed new shutdown plan also had mentioned completing training for the new tax law.

Edited by user Monday, January 7, 2019 12:22:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

LieutenantBlantyre  
#190 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 5:44:48 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: No Place Like Home Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LieutenantBlantyre Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: chriswt25 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LieutenantBlantyre Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kitkatma Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jimmy81 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: chriswt25 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jimmy81 Go to Quoted Post
Looks like the Democrats will be passing funding bills for individual agencies, starting with IRS. There will be a lot of pressure to sign that. Delaying tax refunds has big consequences.


Say that they do that and then it passes the Senate (which it won't) or if the Senate does pass it and it goes to the Presidents desk to sign (which he won't) Say all of that does happen and they open the IRS, we may go back to work, but we still won't get paid. They are not going to pay certain civilian government workers, and not others. At least I don't think they will be allowed to pay us.


You will get paid once your agency is funded, just like all the other currently funded agencies. But you are right that the Republicans probably will not allow individual bills. In fact, the Republicans tried to do the exact same thing in the 2013 shutdown. The Dems shot them all down.


This is just nuts! Congress IS NOT doing their job and they are getting paid. From my perspective, they're not even trying. Congress DOES NOT require the President's signature to pass a bill. Yes it is easier if the President does sign, but there are provisions in the Constitution for veto overrides.


You have to be able to rustle up a two-thirds majority in both chambers for that. Speaker Pelosi has a majority in the House but not two-thirds. Majority Leader McConnell has a majority in the Senate but not two-thirds. Unless everybody joins hands and works together between the parties in both the House and the Senate with two-thirds voting to override in each chamber, no veto override is possible.

The House reflects the spirit and passion of the country. Right now the country is split pretty finely to where the band-aids have been ripped off a few too many tensions and festering angers. The Senate shows that the states are divided too. We're not in a kumbaya moment.



You are right. Even if both houses pass this Pelosi "power play" show, Trump isn't about to sign it, and there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that there are enough votes to override his veto.

Meanwhile, we in AM should be receiving another report to work call sometime this week, (this time for real) to show up and work without pay shortly. There goes any possibility of unemployment or getting a temporary job, unless you want to or are willing to more than 40 hours a week.


Even if we get the call, there won't be any sense for 55/56, 182/184, 18/19, and a few of the others with separate numbers to be re-opened. FA & TAS will still be shuttered plus we won't be touching refund returns so no need for TPP. All we're allowed to do under current law & interpretation is baldue, procedural, and possibly tax law if it relates to securing a return. Even providing transcripts would become out of scope as we'd bump up against the no-faxing policy change. Leaving a message up on the specialties saying that they're still not being worked would be better than having people sit there & get abused. We're going to get plenty of abuse plus Frivolous Arguments.


We will be AHOD on app 55 so that we can tell people no appointments can be made at this time to pick up their transcripts. Then we will have to tell them the ways to retrieve their own transcripts online or offer to mail or fax them. Of course they will need it for school and they will have never filed before so the only other option will be for them to file 4506T. They will complain they will get kicked out of school or lose their financing if they don't get their transcript today. All we can do is apologize and say hopefully the school will understand the government was shutdown - yeah right they won't. Then there will be those people that demand appointment to get their returns stamped because they failed to file by the original due date and now it's an emergency to get it submitted so they can get a loan. What a vicious circle. Oh and we get to do that with a smile in our voice while not getting paid!! Unless a miracle happens and we get funded before our recall phone call.


4506T doesn't get processed during a shutdown. That may make people cry.
LieutenantBlantyre  
#191 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 5:59:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ashulein Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Red Go to Quoted Post
If people can't get their refunds, they will call Congress and raise hell. Maybe that is what it will take to get some action.


I think we are a few too many bridges away before we cross that one there. Think about it, as of right now there isn't even a first day of the filing season that has been announced but for the sake of the argument lets just use 2018 as the same start to 2019. So let's just say the filing season starts on 1/29/19 and like normal a whole bunch of people are all Johnny on the Spot filing electronically the second they can. Ignore TPP, IVO, or anything else that can extend the refund being paid (since those things extend refunds all on their own) and just go with the normal three week timeframe for refunds to be received after they are initially filed. That means that refunds would still be considered timely if they are received by 2/19/19 (over six weeks from today).

The longest shutdown ever was 21 days and we will hit that on 1/12/19. Basically we would have to have this shutdown go on two weeks longer than any previous shutdown for the filing season to be impacted and over five weeks for folks' refunds to truly be impacted. That would mean a total time that the government would be "shutdown" would be about 60 days... or about 3 times longer than the currently longest shutdown. That would be beyond unprecedented in the scope of prior government appropriation impasses. Now maybe we are in such times, and only time will tell, but I wouldn't bet the farm on filing season being impacted at this point... or thinking that impacted refunds will light a fire under the powers that be. In my opinion, of course.


IDRS should be back up somewhat today if nothing changed from that last SERP Alert from last month when we left.
kitkatma  
#192 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 6:56:42 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ashulein Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Red Go to Quoted Post
If people can't get their refunds, they will call Congress and raise hell. Maybe that is what it will take to get some action.


I think we are a few too many bridges away before we cross that one there. Think about it, as of right now there isn't even a first day of the filing season that has been announced but for the sake of the argument lets just use 2018 as the same start to 2019. So let's just say the filing season starts on 1/29/19 and like normal a whole bunch of people are all Johnny on the Spot filing electronically the second they can. Ignore TPP, IVO, or anything else that can extend the refund being paid (since those things extend refunds all on their own) and just go with the normal three week timeframe for refunds to be received after they are initially filed. That means that refunds would still be considered timely if they are received by 2/19/19 (over six weeks from today).

The longest shutdown ever was 21 days and we will hit that on 1/12/19. Basically we would have to have this shutdown go on two weeks longer than any previous shutdown for the filing season to be impacted and over five weeks for folks' refunds to truly be impacted. That would mean a total time that the government would be "shutdown" would be about 60 days... or about 3 times longer than the currently longest shutdown. That would be beyond unprecedented in the scope of prior government appropriation impasses. Now maybe we are in such times, and only time will tell, but I wouldn't bet the farm on filing season being impacted at this point... or thinking that impacted refunds will light a fire under the powers that be. In my opinion, of course.


Those shutdowns were total shutdowns, not partial like now. If this continues to drag on it will affect state returns. If I remember correctly, in some states you can't file the state return without the federal. I have always filed my state & federal returns together.

Historically the filing season has started on Tuesday after MLK day and I think that the 29th was used last year to "soften" the PATH Act required EIC hold until Feb 15th.
Hired 2015  
#193 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 9:59:37 AM(UTC)
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I took a free online course on new tax law that gave me some confidence with new forms. Thankfully I won't have a balance due because I planned ahead. I look at the positive side, whenever I can file my own return I won't be in trouble with the IRS. That is the most important thing to keep the job where I may not get back pay or have to work without pay.

The only for sure thing I see in all of this is IRS employees will have to file. Beyond that looks speculative with many questions especially for seasonals where its always uncertain.


LieutenantBlantyre  
#194 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 11:51:03 AM(UTC)
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Well, this should keep us from having to keep such a close vigil:

Faler, B. (2019, January 7). Treasury weighing whether to issue tax refunds during shutdown. Retrieved January 7, 2019, from https://politi.co/2Fa8lOR

Key quotes:

Quote:
Officials have been examining the issue exhaustively, a senior administration official said, and expect to have answers around midweek.

“We’re trying to figure out legally what the right answer is here — what we’re allowed to do,” the official said. “If it was settled, I’d tell you, but it’s not.


Quote:
Treasury's decision will include details like when this year’s filing season will begin, the official said.

The official criticized the “frenzy” of speculation over the prospects of refunds being held up.

“I just don’t know that it’s worth all the time and effort that it's getting,” the official said. “It’s speculation at this point, until the decision is made.”


It seems that the lawyers involved are all thinking this may have to go to a judge because they can argue it to at least two different resolutions but aren't confident about it after the stunt AFGE pulled. The other matter is figuring out how to pay for ERS, TPP, RIO when technically there is no money to do so. Those three things can't be designated "essential" unless Chief Counsel comes out with one heckuva technical opinion. If we just let refunds loose without checking at all, I would be horrified at the losses.

Also:

Everett, B., & Morin, R. (2019, January 7). Trump wages PR war as shutdown talks falter. Retrieved January 7, 2019, from https://politi.co/2FceRo3

POTUS will have a televised address to the nation Tuesday at 9 PM Eastern.

Edited by user Monday, January 7, 2019 12:02:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

nonewsnotgood  
#195 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 12:24:28 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: spence Go to Quoted Post
I think if AM CSRs are called back to work without pay before the shutdown is resolved, you'd be allowed to finish any training on the new tax law because preparing for the new tax law is one of the things that's actually funded and the NTEU email about the IRS's proposed new shutdown plan also had mentioned completing training for the new tax law.


Wouldn't the 'training' have been the 4 days some of us spent in Skype training for the CFSRT? I think we all had that. The tax law training was for 2017 and prior. A waste of time for me since I had done that my first 3 years.

Edited by user Monday, January 7, 2019 12:36:32 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

LieutenantBlantyre  
#196 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 1:16:11 PM(UTC)
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And the Acting OMB Director shot their mouth off saying that refunds will flow even though Chief Counsel said hours earlier that they don't know. I can't recall OMB being in the chain of command for us. Unless we are forgoing ERS, TPP, & RIO I am not quite sure how that OMB person thinks this will happen.

Time to go work on another client pitch and ask at church if I can put myself on levee.
GWPDA  
#197 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 1:21:45 PM(UTC)
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Front page, Washington Post just now: "White House Says IRS will issue tax refunds"
Very little information attached. When did the White House have the ability to dictate disbursement of funds? When did they get a warrant?
Massgone2015  
#198 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 1:23:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: LieutenantBlantyre Go to Quoted Post
And the Acting OMB Director shot their mouth off saying that refunds will flow even though Chief Counsel said hours earlier that they don't know. I can't recall OMB being in the chain of command for us. Unless we are forgoing ERS, TPP, & RIO I am not quite sure how that OMB person thinks this will happen.

Time to go work on another client pitch and ask at church if I can put myself on levee.


According to the NY Times. "The Trump administration will direct the Internal Revenue Service to issue tax refunds during the ongoing federal government shutdown, reversing previous policy, officials said Monday.
“Tax refunds will go out,” Russell T. Vought, acting director of the White House Office of Management and Budget, told reporters in an afternoon briefing."
LieutenantBlantyre  
#199 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 1:27:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Massgone2015 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LieutenantBlantyre Go to Quoted Post
And the Acting OMB Director shot their mouth off saying that refunds will flow even though Chief Counsel said hours earlier that they don't know. I can't recall OMB being in the chain of command for us. Unless we are forgoing ERS, TPP, & RIO I am not quite sure how that OMB person thinks this will happen.

Time to go work on another client pitch and ask at church if I can put myself on levee.


According to the NY Times. "The Trump administration will direct the Internal Revenue Service to issue tax refunds during the ongoing federal government shutdown, reversing previous policy, officials said Monday.
“Tax refunds will go out,” Russell T. Vought, acting director of the White House Office of Management and Budget, told reporters in an afternoon briefing."


So no Revenue Protection Strategy then, apparently. This will lead to no good. Does this count under "illegal orders"?
LieutenantBlantyre  
#200 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 1:29:25 PM(UTC)
LieutenantBlantyre

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Originally Posted by: GWPDA Go to Quoted Post
Front page, Washington Post just now: "White House Says IRS will issue tax refunds"
Very little information attached. When did the White House have the ability to dictate disbursement of funds? When did they get a warrant?


Very questionable, indeed. I'll wait for my orders through channels.
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