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Internal Revenue Service

As a bureau of the Department of the Treasury and as one of the world's most efficient tax administrators, the IRS role is to help the large majority of compliant taxpayers with the tax law, while ensuring that the minority who are unwilling to comply pay their fair share. (Source: www.irs.gov)

This forum will allow you to share and ask job-related questions about this bureau. This is NOT the place to ask tax questions.

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Jimmy81  
#221 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 8:05:19 PM(UTC)
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If the shutdown lasts into filing season and if IRS employees are expected to work for free I wonder if the NTEU organizes a strike? I realize it is illegal for public sector employees to strike but considering it should also be illegal to issue tax refunds in a shutdown, I doubt anyone would be prosecuted for it.
LieutenantBlantyre  
#222 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 8:06:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dmellow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LieutenantBlantyre Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Michelle10 Go to Quoted Post
Apparently, there could be negative consequences if IRS issues refunds during a shutdown. From the Washington Post article:

"Treasury has looked at this time and again and decided these payments aren’t going to be made,” Berger said. “Suddenly there is a potlitical concern. There’s no legal justification. It’s a political decision.”

Berger said the decision could be found to violate the Anti-Deficiency Act, which could carry fines or even criminal penalties.


If we open on 1/28 (Day 28), 21 days would put us at 2/18 (day 49). If we don't have appropriations by then we'll have hit a new record. There probably would've been a march on DC by that point by disgruntled civil servants, too.

Since none of us have our handy cycle calendars, this item from NOAA will do in a pinch: https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/neubrew/Calendar.jsp

I am really not happy about the union trying to get pay through the backdoor via lawsuit in the US Court of Federal Claims by filing a class action to create a financial claim on the Judgment Fund which has a permanent appropriation. It may be barely legal but certainly unseemly. Making appropriations via lawsuits just creates a conflict for me understanding matters. That's not how our country is supposed to operate.


It sounds like the union is saying to the court that it's not legal to have people working and not getting paid. I want to get paid if we are called into work. I don't care how it is appropriated. The president wants us to go back to work because he is concerned about the people getting mad about their refunds. There is no concern about us getting paid, it's just about us going back to work. This shutdown can go on for a long time. Once we are back at work being productive, the incentive to worry about us getting paid is greatly reduced. We are being told that "we will adjust". What a slap in the face!

This filing season was going to be rough anyway because of the delay in training on the new tax law and new forms. We still have to deal with refund holds, returns going thru tpp and exams, missing refunds, etc. Even though I can hold out financially for a while, I don't like not getting paid when working or on furlough.


The reason to worry about the money coming from the right place is so that we don't suffer recovery actions later. This is all sketchy in fairly gray areas. I don't want to wind up with some public interest law group causing trouble. We've been plagued with that since day one with Trump.

It isn't that I mind being paid. I want clean & clear right to the money, though. What both AFGE & NTEU are trying doesn't produce that.
LieutenantBlantyre  
#223 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 8:09:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jimmy81 Go to Quoted Post
If the shutdown lasts into filing season and if IRS employees are expected to work for free I wonder if the NTEU organizes a strike? I realize it is illegal for public sector employees to strike but considering it should also be illegal to issue tax refunds in a shutdown, I doubt anyone would be prosecuted for it.


We never need to strike. People think we're doing work slowdowns even when we're normally on the job. There are ways and there are ways to approach the refunds backflip in the morning.

Jimmy81  
#224 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 9:01:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: LieutenantBlantyre Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jimmy81 Go to Quoted Post
If the shutdown lasts into filing season and if IRS employees are expected to work for free I wonder if the NTEU organizes a strike? I realize it is illegal for public sector employees to strike but considering it should also be illegal to issue tax refunds in a shutdown, I doubt anyone would be prosecuted for it.


We never need to strike. People think we're doing work slowdowns even when we're normally on the job. There are ways and there are ways to approach the refunds backflip in the morning.


I think the public would be sympathetic to IRS employees striking until they get paid. I don't see Trump pulling a Ronald Reagan and firing public servants who haven't been paid in over a month. Hell, many might not even be able to afford gas to get to work. This is all hypothetical at this point but things aren't near any resolution...
chriswt25  
#225 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2019 9:47:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jimmy81 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LieutenantBlantyre Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jimmy81 Go to Quoted Post
If the shutdown lasts into filing season and if IRS employees are expected to work for free I wonder if the NTEU organizes a strike? I realize it is illegal for public sector employees to strike but considering it should also be illegal to issue tax refunds in a shutdown, I doubt anyone would be prosecuted for it.


We never need to strike. People think we're doing work slowdowns even when we're normally on the job. There are ways and there are ways to approach the refunds backflip in the morning.


I think the public would be sympathetic to IRS employees striking until they get paid. I don't see Trump pulling a Ronald Reagan and firing public servants who haven't been paid in over a month. Hell, many might not even be able to afford gas to get to work. This is all hypothetical at this point but things aren't near any resolution...



You can't even get these local NTEU chapters as well as the other union local chapters to get it together to hold demonstrations around the country, in the cities and towns where the employees work. What better way to make ourselves visible to the public and the politicians. Every local newscast would have a crew out covering the protests. Have them in front of the Congress persons local office,

No, they say come to Washington DC (on our own dime) to demonstrate.
No Place Like Home  
#226 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 12:46:57 AM(UTC)
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Shutdown/Recall FAQ's

Not sure if this link has always been on www.irs.gov/employee page but found it useful and it was updated 1-7-19. It addressed TSP and unemployment and other issues.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/...faqs_shutdown_recall.pdf
spence  
#227 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 1:22:05 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Jimmy81 Go to Quoted Post
If the shutdown lasts into filing season and if IRS employees are expected to work for free I wonder if the NTEU organizes a strike? I realize it is illegal for public sector employees to strike but considering it should also be illegal to issue tax refunds in a shutdown, I doubt anyone would be prosecuted for it.


You think Trump would hesitate to fire all of us if there was an illegal strike? Federal unions aren't as powerful because people aren't required to join them or to pay into them despite them representing everyone in the bargaining unit, and because strikes are illegal.

I do like christwt's idea of local rallies. But don't get it twisted and just blame the union. We are the union, the members.

A legal strategy is outside the box, and makes sense to make sure people get paid who are working. The unions have won a number of court victories over the years.

Edited by user Tuesday, January 8, 2019 2:19:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Jimmy81  
#228 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:46:18 AM(UTC)
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Looks like Chapter 190 in Parkersburg, WV is holding the first local rally. These should be held at other PODs before the mass recall of unpaid workers begins.

Quote:

The National Treasury Employees Union (NTEU) Chapter 190 will hold a public rally on Thursday from noon-1 p.m. at Bicentennial Park in downtown Parkersburg.

Eric Engle, local NTEU member and event organizer, said their national chapter was going to be holding a rally at the same time at the U.S. Capitol building in Washington, D.C. Engle thought they could do something locally since the local offices of the Bureau of Fiscal Services has a large presence in the area and employs many people.

http://www.newsandsentin...ld-rally-in-parkersburg/
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Hired 2015 on 1/8/2019(UTC)
Hired 2015  
#229 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 6:03:45 AM(UTC)
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Forcing us to return to work without paying us might be an issue for unemployment. In my state being paid wages timely per state law is a requirement for the employment to be deemed suitable. If are returned to working status under our state law employers have so many days to pay the wages that must be at least minimum wage.

We are public servants but are we conscripted to work in servitude for back pay not through any fault of management or the union that may never materialize?

The issue is as citizens and public servants we at least are entitled to minimum wage when we work and my state regulates when employers have to pay those wages.
Michelle10  
#230 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 8:19:36 AM(UTC)
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It sounds like the union is saying to the court that it's not legal to have people working and not getting paid. I want to get paid if we are called into work. I don't care how it is appropriated. The president wants us to go back to work because he is concerned about the people getting mad about their refunds. There is no concern about us getting paid, it's just about us going back to work. This shutdown can go on for a long time. Once we are back at work being productive, the incentive to worry about us getting paid is greatly reduced. We are being told that "we will adjust". What a slap in the face! 

This filing season was going to be rough anyway because of the delay in training on the new tax law and new forms. We still have to deal with refund holds, returns going thru tpp and exams, missing refunds, etc. Even though I can hold out financially for a while, I don't like not getting paid when
working or on furlough.

I am angry at President Trump because he assumes most federal employees support the shutdown and that we will make adjustments. And, I do not look forward to working without pay. I don't feel valued.
Marie93  
#231 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 8:39:20 AM(UTC)
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People need paychecks. How can anyone justify having people work without pay to process refund checks? It is nonsense. If you are expected to make adjustments, people waiting for refunds need to make adjustments.

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Hired 2015 on 1/8/2019(UTC), Massgone2015 on 1/8/2019(UTC)
chriswt25  
#232 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 11:23:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Marie93 Go to Quoted Post
People need paychecks. How can anyone justify having people work without pay to process refund checks? It is nonsense. If you are expected to make adjustments, people waiting for refunds need to make adjustments.




The laughable thing about this is that Congress (I mean ALL of Congress) will forget all about us as far as no pay for work goes, as long as we are in place to facilitate the refunds to go out to the people that have EIC, The great EIC that everyone in Congress (both parties) knows is rife with fraud. These elected jokers don't want any of these undeserving crooks giving them heat.

Edited by user Tuesday, January 8, 2019 11:24:26 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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LieutenantBlantyre on 1/8/2019(UTC), Massgone2015 on 1/8/2019(UTC)
Daniel25  
#233 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 11:36:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: chriswt25 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Marie93 Go to Quoted Post
People need paychecks. How can anyone justify having people work without pay to process refund checks? It is nonsense. If you are expected to make adjustments, people waiting for refunds need to make adjustments.




The laughable thing about this is that Congress (I mean ALL of Congress) will forget all about us as far as no pay for work goes, as long as we are in place to facilitate the refunds to go out to the people that have EIC, The great EIC that everyone in Congress (both parties) knows is rife with fraud. These elected jokers don't want any of these undeserving crooks giving them heat.


I wonder if exam will be working when these refunds ago out? A lot will fall under exam and possible TPP and IVO before that. A lot of people are going to be upset when they find out that not only is their refund held, but we have no staff to work the actual audit.
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LieutenantBlantyre on 1/8/2019(UTC)
Red  
#234 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 11:43:14 AM(UTC)

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So True! They pander to these people and are afraid to delay their handouts because they know the "entitled class" will raise hell if they don't get their checks. So they cave in to them, but forget about us.
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LieutenantBlantyre on 1/8/2019(UTC)
LieutenantBlantyre  
#235 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 12:02:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Daniel25 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: chriswt25 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Marie93 Go to Quoted Post
People need paychecks. How can anyone justify having people work without pay to process refund checks? It is nonsense. If you are expected to make adjustments, people waiting for refunds need to make adjustments.




The laughable thing about this is that Congress (I mean ALL of Congress) will forget all about us as far as no pay for work goes, as long as we are in place to facilitate the refunds to go out to the people that have EIC, The great EIC that everyone in Congress (both parties) knows is rife with fraud. These elected jokers don't want any of these undeserving crooks giving them heat.


I wonder if exam will be working when these refunds ago out? A lot will fall under exam and possible TPP and IVO before that. A lot of people are going to be upset when they find out that not only is their refund held, but we have no staff to work the actual audit.



There will need to be a new third letter in the 2645C/2644C sequence then.
NicNell  
#236 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 1:01:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Red Go to Quoted Post
So True! They pander to these people and are afraid to delay their handouts because they know the "entitled class" will raise hell if they don't get their checks. So they cave in to them, but forget about us.


It’s going to be extremely difficult to sympathize with the people who are checking on their $8000+ refunds when I have no idea when I’ll be paid next.
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Michelle10 on 1/8/2019(UTC)
LieutenantBlantyre  
#237 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 3:11:24 PM(UTC)
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So far, a problem arises in the Democratic stratagem. They said they would pass Treasury appropriations for FY19 through the House today and dare the Senate to pass it or not. Today's floor events ticker at http://clerk.house.gov shows they haven't gotten that far. There haven't even been major dilatory tactics shown today. The bill just hasn't been called up yet as of 1815 Eastern.

Curious...

Edited by user Tuesday, January 8, 2019 3:13:24 PM(UTC)  | Reason: URL glitch

chriswt25  
#238 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 3:49:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: LieutenantBlantyre Go to Quoted Post
So far, a problem arises in the Democratic stratagem. They said they would pass Treasury appropriations for FY19 through the House today and dare the Senate to pass it or not. Today's floor events ticker at http://clerk.house.gov shows they haven't gotten that far. There haven't even been major dilatory tactics shown today. The bill just hasn't been called up yet as of 1815 Eastern.

Curious...



Might be wrong here, but I thought that is supposed to be tomorrow.


LieutenantBlantyre  
#239 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:22:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: chriswt25 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LieutenantBlantyre Go to Quoted Post
So far, a problem arises in the Democratic stratagem. They said they would pass Treasury appropriations for FY19 through the House today and dare the Senate to pass it or not. Today's floor events ticker at http://clerk.house.gov shows they haven't gotten that far. There haven't even been major dilatory tactics shown today. The bill just hasn't been called up yet as of 1815 Eastern.

Curious...



Might be wrong here, but I thought that is supposed to be tomorrow.




Checked a bunch of newspapers since it wasn't shown on the Majority Leader's schedule but couldn't find a specific date. Just at some point this week. When I last looked at CSPAN1 a bunch of members were in the well of the House for a gun violence kumbaya moment.

If it really was important, my assumption was it would've been considered today. When I flipped over to CSPAN2 I got to see Senator Kaine lying worse than some of our callers followed by Senator Durbin trying to be as self-righteous as possible. An actual relay talking filibuster was underway in the Senate.
kitkatma  
#240 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:45:34 PM(UTC)
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Just got a email from the National Union. Filing start date of Mon Jan 28th has been announced and refunds will be issued as scheduled.

"The IRS indicated that it plans to recall a significant number of currently furloughed employees under an updated shutdown filing season contingency plan to be released in the coming days."

Let the party start.....

Edited by user Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:52:28 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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