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militarybrat  
#1 Posted : Thursday, March 21, 2019 10:52:21 AM(UTC)
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I would like to know if, during your Agency's investigation of your EEO complaint, the Government attorney was involved in your investigation/fact finding? Were they physically present, did they ask questions, etc? Any information or insight is appreciated.
frankgonzalez  
#2 Posted : Thursday, March 21, 2019 12:02:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: militarybrat Go to Quoted Post
I would like to know if, during your Agency's investigation of your EEO complaint, the Government attorney was involved in your investigation/fact finding? Were they physically present, did they ask questions, etc? Any information or insight is appreciated.
They should be involved with putting a litigation hold on records, and may send questions/concerns to the investigator but should not be involved in any interviews (unless they are a witness themselves, but then they would be recused from acting as the agency attorney). PM me if you have any specific questions and I will try to answer them for you.

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
nightchop  
#3 Posted : Thursday, March 21, 2019 2:14:53 PM(UTC)

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It was clear that my agency's legal branch controlled the investigation. My "independent" investigator was essentially there to make it look legit. Would be nice to know how much they got paid to do nothing.

I don't think is the way it's supposed to be done. If you have concerns about ethics, you should speak to an outside consultant/lawyer.
DroneBee  
#4 Posted : Saturday, March 23, 2019 7:53:25 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: militarybrat Go to Quoted Post
I would like to know if, during your Agency's investigation of your EEO complaint, the Government attorney was involved in your investigation/fact finding? Were they physically present, did they ask questions, etc? Any information or insight is appreciated.


The EEO *IS* the agency - the EEO reports to your HQ/unit head/etc. The agency's attorneys are involved in everything and all steps. The "system" is horrible and these agency attorneys are the lowest scum on earth - they forge documents, lie, etc. and have no legal ethics. I can see why these agency attorneys are not on the outside - they couldn't handle real legal work. It's easy to win when you control all aspects "behind" the scenes (shooting fish in a barrel).

Now that you are obviously in this EEO "system" fighting, be as nice as you can to the agency attorneys, etc. Everything you say will be used against you - and even some things that they make up will be used against you.

God Bless.
thanks 1 user thanked for this useful post.
emrlddragon on 5/28/2019(UTC)
nightchop  
#5 Posted : Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:38:06 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: DroneBee Go to Quoted Post
I can see why these agency attorneys are not on the outside - they couldn't handle real legal work. It's easy to win when you control all aspects "behind" the scenes (shooting fish in a barrel).


Very true. Woe to the pro se complainant who can read and write. The less competent/experienced the attorney, the more likely they are to treat you as their mortal enemy. The MSPB "judge" and agency attorney on my case behave as a unit. "Boo hoo! You aren't making it easy for us to screw you over." Terrible people.
militarybrat  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2019 3:49:35 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for your input and thoughts. I'm waiting to see what happens this go 'round!
Small Agency Oversight  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, April 2, 2019 11:20:01 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: militarybrat Go to Quoted Post
I would like to know if, during your Agency's investigation of your EEO complaint, the Government attorney was involved in your investigation/fact finding? Were they physically present, did they ask questions, etc? Any information or insight is appreciated.
They should be involved with putting a litigation hold on records, and may send questions/concerns to the investigator but should not be involved in any interviews (unless they are a witness themselves, but then they would be recused from acting as the agency attorney). PM me if you have any specific questions and I will try to answer them for you.



is there any way to force a recusal by agency counsel?
Jitterbug  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, April 2, 2019 12:26:52 PM(UTC)
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The government could save a lot of money if they standardized the infamous Background Investigation process. And they could also save a lot of great potential employees by having some kind of web based status board to let people know where their application/paperwork stands in the process, whether it's collecting dust due to how overloaded with work and undermanned they are or if something is actually getting done to expedite the investigation and finally adjudicate it.
frankgonzalez  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2019 3:13:19 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gerardo Go to Quoted Post
The government could save a lot of money if they standardized the infamous Background Investigation process. And they could also save a lot of great potential employees by having some kind of web based status board to let people know where their application/paperwork stands in the process, whether it's collecting dust due to how overloaded with work and undermanned they are or if something is actually getting done to expedite the investigation and finally adjudicate it.
The OP is talking about an EEO complaint investigation, not a background investigation. Two very different things.

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
frankgonzalez  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2019 3:15:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Small Agency Oversight Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: militarybrat Go to Quoted Post
I would like to know if, during your Agency's investigation of your EEO complaint, the Government attorney was involved in your investigation/fact finding? Were they physically present, did they ask questions, etc? Any information or insight is appreciated.
They should be involved with putting a litigation hold on records, and may send questions/concerns to the investigator but should not be involved in any interviews (unless they are a witness themselves, but then they would be recused from acting as the agency attorney). PM me if you have any specific questions and I will try to answer them for you.



is there any way to force a recusal by agency counsel?
Not really. You can raise the issue with the AJ IF there is a conflict of interest you believe exists (with supporting evidence).

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
Small Agency Oversight  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2019 3:09:24 PM(UTC)
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Conflict of interest is that the agency’s counsel is a witness (and a named party in my complaint). No statutory requirement for recusal, eh?
frankgonzalez  
#12 Posted : Thursday, April 4, 2019 3:40:34 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Small Agency Oversight Go to Quoted Post
Conflict of interest is that the agency’s counsel is a witness (and a named party in my complaint). No statutory requirement for recusal, eh?
Not really. Very specific circumstances, yes. But simply being named? No. After all, if a complainant wanted to hamstring the agency defense, simply naming the labor law lawyers they have as witnesses or as a RMO would do just that if they were required to recuse themselves. So...they can do it themselves, or the AJ can decide a conflict of interest exists. But you have to get to the AJ to make the request.

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
Small Agency Oversight  
#13 Posted : Monday, April 15, 2019 5:59:33 PM(UTC)
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My agency’s GC has now recused themself...they have retained a DOJ lawyer to represent the agency...does DOJ provide this service for free to agencies or is it likely that there is an interagency agreement in place?
frankgonzalez  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, April 16, 2019 3:34:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Small Agency Oversight Go to Quoted Post
My agency’s GC has now recused themself...they have retained a DOJ lawyer to represent the agency...does DOJ provide this service for free to agencies or is it likely that there is an interagency agreement in place?
DoJ are available on all litigation against the US government. They usually let the agency lawyers take the lead but are often involved at all stages of the litigation in some form or fashion.
You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
Small Agency Oversight  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, April 16, 2019 4:55:43 AM(UTC)
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Agency counsel has withdrawn and DOJ is now the agency representative. When you say “available” do you mean these DOJ lawyers are free for the agencies to use?
frankgonzalez  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, April 16, 2019 5:09:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Small Agency Oversight Go to Quoted Post
Agency counsel has withdrawn and DOJ is now the agency representative. When you say “available” do you mean these DOJ lawyers are free for the agencies to use?
Technically, DOJ is the agency assigned to provide defense for all litigation against the US government. DoJ "borrows" the agency attorneys to "assist" DoJ in most EEOC, MSPB, FLRA, etc cases, with DOJ themselves stepping in when needed due to conflict of interest, the case has significant ramifications, and so on.

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
Small Agency Oversight  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, April 16, 2019 5:16:21 AM(UTC)
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This is so unfortunate. I was really hoping they had to pay for DOJ’s services since it would incentivize them to drop the case. Their new counsel reached out already about settlement but we remain at an impasse since the agency doesn’t want to admit as a condition of settlement that their decision to issue a suspension was in error (thanks, executive order!).
nightchop  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, April 16, 2019 8:13:41 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Small Agency Oversight Go to Quoted Post
This is so unfortunate.



It really is. But that's why some agency attorneys are so arrogant. They are banking on you dropping the case and if you don't, they'll just solicit their interagency contacts (some of whom are supposed to regulate their behavior) for favors.
frankgonzalez  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, April 16, 2019 8:14:11 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Small Agency Oversight Go to Quoted Post
This is so unfortunate. I was really hoping they had to pay for DOJ’s services since it would incentivize them to drop the case. Their new counsel reached out already about settlement but we remain at an impasse since the agency doesn’t want to admit as a condition of settlement that their decision to issue a suspension was in error (thanks, executive order!).
Quick reality check. They will not fire anyone, or take any other adverse action against anyone or admit error or guilt in any settlement agreement.

They can do a lot of things, but it depends on the strength of the case what they would be willing to do. Without further details of your case (and I am not asking for any, just stating the limits we all have), it is hard to say the strength of your case (for either side) and what is the realm of possible or probable.

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
Small Agency Oversight  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, April 16, 2019 8:20:16 AM(UTC)
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Frank if you review documentation for folks I’d be happy to send mine to you, you are very knowledgeable and have been a huge help with your posts

I’m litigating this because the agency issued a 2-week suspension. The agency claims that the EO prevents them from altering my personnel file (certainly not true, my Senator has confirmed with OPM that they can clean the file if they admit error).

agencies are still settling and clearing records. it’s unfortunate that mine refuses to do so...
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