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TrinitySix  
#1721 Posted : Wednesday, April 17, 2019 11:55:33 AM(UTC)
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48 months or longer.

If you sign a retention/incentive type deal, you can leave any time. Four months or four days. You just have to pay back the money.

The paperwork I signed said so. Maybe Bird Dog did not, but mine did. And no, they don't prorate based on time served.

I will say that some contractors will buy your way out if they want you badly enough. So if for example you do biometrics, and DOD is paying you 80k and a contractor would pay you 150k and pocket the other 100k on what they would make off a 250k contract for your services downrange (some of which would pay for their costs to maintain you other than your payroll), paying off 15k in indenturement is good value for them. The same might not hold true for other roles so ymmv.

For sure don't sign anything that would make it impossible for you to leave. OHR is not wise in how things work, those are paperpush contractors. They've given bad info before and will likely do again. Tell them at a minimum you want to speak with the hiring manager and or career development officer. Don't go on what OHR says. That has burned people in the past.


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rebels8 on 4/17/2019(UTC)
someoldguy  
#1722 Posted : Wednesday, April 17, 2019 12:27:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TrinitySix Go to Quoted Post
I know SO many people who were told old info about promotion time frames and that they'd get back to their former grade quickly. Come in as a GG10 on the grounds that they said you'd be a 13 in two years and you're gonna get a shock when that turns out to be expired info from five years ago.
Very true. I've met SEVERAL people who were hired as 12 or 13 back in the Golden Era and made 15 in five or six years...

Originally Posted by: TrinitySix Go to Quoted Post
Promotions are now throttled to X number per career field per grade. It's not hard to make 11 but they're trying to reduce the number of 12s and 13s so the barrier to entry on that goes way up now.
I'm not sure how hard it is to make it to 12 but I like to say that 12 is the new 13, coz it didnt used to be a big deal to make 13 (five-plus years ago or more) but now there's a HUGE number of 13s and of course a lot of them would like to be a 14 and so forth... the key point here is that promotion is far from automatic and not everyone will get an opportunity to make the "impact" that the higher-ups are looking for when deciding who gets promoted.

Originally Posted by: TrinitySix Go to Quoted Post
In a couple years you may be gagging to get to nsa or nga or anywhere but here.
Not sure it is so very different anyplace else. The whole IC is suffering from the same demographic problem, namely, that they hired a crap ton of people after 9/11, promoted them really fast, and the anticipated wave of retirements never happened. But these things tend to come in waves, so if you hang on for a few years (maybe five) it could very well swing back the other way.

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rebels8 on 4/17/2019(UTC)
TrinitySix  
#1723 Posted : Wednesday, April 17, 2019 12:51:44 PM(UTC)
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It's like this and sometimes worse (for some careers) at NGA from what I hear.

As far as higher grades starving their young by keeping all impact opportunities to themselves and their favorites, same at CIA. Possibly worse. Depends on where you are.

I haven't heard anything bad about NSA. Promotions are once a year but if they have a hard cap that is new on me.

Sit in a performance meeting where you are told that you are expected to exceed expectations so doing so is only worth a 3 for satisfactory and not a 4 for exceeds expectations and tell me that would fly anywhere but here and a Dilbert cartoon. If it would I don't want to live on this planet anymore. I am surviving this on the principle that it is localized and escapable insanity.

Edited by user Wednesday, April 17, 2019 12:53:57 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

TrinitySix  
#1724 Posted : Wednesday, April 17, 2019 1:02:17 PM(UTC)
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Also, you're not wrong about people not retiring. I used to think it was cool that there were so many people in their 70s and even early 80s here, with so much life experience. Now I see them and feel like that's gonna be me because I will never be able to afford to be able to retire on the current scheme unless I move to rural India or some *****
someoldguy  
#1725 Posted : Wednesday, April 17, 2019 1:07:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TrinitySix Go to Quoted Post
...so many people in their 70s and even early 80s here, with so much life experience. Now I see them and feel like that's gonna be me because I will never be able to afford to be able to retire on the current scheme unless I move to rural India or some *****
Early 70s, yeah, I've seen that... but 80s?

STRATCOM! Omaha! Better than rural India... don't have to worry about the water... or the tigers... or rampaging monkeys hell-bent on mayhem.

Why do you think Peyton Manning kept yelling OMAHA! OMAHA!

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rebels8 on 4/17/2019(UTC)
TrinitySix  
#1726 Posted : Wednesday, April 17, 2019 1:11:56 PM(UTC)
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The oldest guy I've met working here is 82.

I was bummed when Cincinnati was an April Fool's joke. You could actually live on GG10 there.
someoldguy  
#1727 Posted : Wednesday, April 17, 2019 1:34:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TrinitySix Go to Quoted Post
The oldest guy I've met working here is 82.
Just for the record...

IT WAS NOT ME!!!

Work when I'm 82? I hope I'll still be able to change my own diaper when I'm 82. Or at least realize that it needs to be changed. Maybe by then I'll have a diaper robot.

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rebels8 on 4/17/2019(UTC)
Bird_Dog_703  
#1728 Posted : Wednesday, April 17, 2019 1:49:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bird_Dog_703 Go to Quoted Post
...folks have been applying and starting new jobs outside their career field after only 12 months - its just you need approval from OHR, which apparently isn't that difficult to obtain.
I have not heard this... although I have heard that if you are in a position that is not in line with your career field then you cannot get promoted.



Its not all that common but has happened and I've only been here a short time. Its also no secret that they want to hire more technical folks on but the problem is they cannot compete with the salaries offered by gov contractors for doing the EXACT same work.

Also be VERY leery about that anyone tells you that you can fly up the GS scale when coming in as a GG10. Much harder to get promoted under the new system you essentially have to be already performing at the next level (doing GG11 work while currently at GG10 grade), demonstrate breadth of experience (multiple roles in your career field) and at the higher levels (say GG12 and higher) having completed intra-IC community work (joint duty assignment) and/or volunteered for an Agency hard to fill position (deployments or rotations).

This system was implemented to replace the hire your buddy system where who you knew was main criteria vs what you know/what you've done. So overall its better for the future but comes with its own set of problems.
TrinitySix  
#1729 Posted : Wednesday, April 17, 2019 2:51:28 PM(UTC)
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Someone been drinking the koolaid if you think that assignments and rotations aren't all about who your buddy is.

You're new. You'll figure it out. But they can double blind the hell out of promotion panels, it won't matter when the office Eddie Haskell got preference on... Pretty much everything. Maybe your office doesn't have a Chosen and Anointed One but it's such a common problem it is literally on the WES.
someoldguy  
#1730 Posted : Thursday, April 18, 2019 11:54:35 AM(UTC)
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Was wondering when you would be checking in on this discussion.

New hires in Touchstone are safe once more.
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rebels8 on 4/18/2019(UTC)
someoldguy  
#1731 Posted : Thursday, April 18, 2019 12:11:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TrinitySix Go to Quoted Post
I haven't heard anything bad about NSA. Promotions are once a year but if they have a hard cap that is new on me.
I have heard that they don't have to worry about "headroom" like DIA people do but they do have some kind of limit on the number of promotions. I've seen explanations of how DIA figures out the number of available promotions, and I suspect NSA has some similar formula.

For those of you who have yet to be welcomed into the warm embrace of DIA, let me explain that "Headroom" means if you are selected for promotion (say from 10 to 11) and the billet you are in is graded 11 or higher, you can be promoted in that billet right away. But if you do not have "headroom" (like if you have been selected for promotion to 11 but your billet caps out at 10) then you need to go find another billet at the higher grade. You do not "actualize" your promotion until you actually get into a billet at that higher grade. This can take a while.

It is something like it used to be in the Army Reserve where you'd get your promotion orders and you had to respond by identifying the paragraph and line number of the billet you have for the new higher grade. If you didn't have that slot, you sucked it up, found a new job, or went into the IRR.

Edited by user Thursday, April 18, 2019 12:12:53 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Max Headroom

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rebels8 on 4/18/2019(UTC)
TrinitySix  
#1732 Posted : Thursday, April 18, 2019 5:46:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kaliino Go to Quoted Post

TrinitySix is officially my new favorite member of this forum.

Everyone give him/her/it a round of applause for being awesome.


Thanks, man. I don't feel awesome. I feel tired.

Edited by user Thursday, April 18, 2019 5:49:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

someoldguy  
#1733 Posted : Saturday, April 20, 2019 3:22:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TrinitySix Go to Quoted Post
Also worth pointing out that if your billet tops out at 10 (or god help you even less, it's not impossible to come in as a 9 with no head room), your chances of actualizing the promotion are pretty small because all available billets under 12 go to the cleared hiring pool with few but not no exceptions.
I'm not sure this is entirely true, although it might not work out exactly like you hope for. I did meet one person who was selected for promotion and was hoping to use that as an opportunity to get out of the center or office or whatever where they were working and which they hated. Unfortunately that did not happen and after a few months the powers that be found a slot at the new grade... in that same center (or office or whatever).

Edited by user Saturday, April 20, 2019 3:33:00 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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someoldguy  
#1734 Posted : Saturday, April 20, 2019 8:51:51 AM(UTC)
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I just replied to TrinitySix's last post and it said this is a moderated forum and my reply has to be approved... so here is a test reply just to see if I get the same result.

No, it posted right away. Something odd happened. I blame Kali.

And the Russians. Don't forget the Russians, George.

Edited by user Saturday, April 20, 2019 8:53:26 AM(UTC)  | Reason: I blame Kaliino

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rebels8  
#1735 Posted : Saturday, April 20, 2019 11:29:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
I just replied to TrinitySix's last post and it said this is a moderated forum and my reply has to be approved... so here is a test reply just to see if I get the same result.

No, it posted right away. Something odd happened. I blame Kali.

And the Russians. Don't forget the Russians, George.


Your post still hasn't been approved for whatever reason. lol This has happened to me a few times. I don't know why. It must be some kind of error originating in the Federal Soup website's server. I think a few of the agency forums really are moderated.
#MMlivesmatter
someoldguy  
#1736 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2019 6:14:46 PM(UTC)
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What Kali forgot to mention is that some years back, they transferred background investigations OUT of DoD for the exact same reason that they are now transferring them back to DoD.

I hope that makes it all much clearer.

I have also seen some articles which say that this new agency (which will of course need lots of GS-15s and an ample supply of SES's) will also take over certain counterintelligence functions for DoD. Which used to be part of a separate circus that was later moved under... wait for it...

You guessed it...

DIA!
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rebels8 on 4/25/2019(UTC)
Chevy82  
#1737 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2019 6:32:02 PM(UTC)
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Continually astounded by what people post here in lack of OPSEC.

Doctrine Alert: OPSEC is all about protecting UNCLASSIFIED information. Not classified. ***** don't belong here.

DoD used to own all of clearance adjudication. It was split between DoD and OPM, with the larger IC's having their own clearance process. Meaning the backlog doesn't affect DIA, NSA, CIA, NGA. Their adjudications are done in house, not DoDCAF.

Moving all clearances to one adjudication system is smart. Hopefully its a step to standardizing clearances across the agency.

Why is it I can have a clearance with DoD and the same clearance with CIA and I can't take it from one agency to another to be recognized for job purposes, but we can transfer info at that level in emails and exchanges without issue?

Also, the service and support provided to two separate adjudication organizations is ridiculous.

Also the idea that DoD isn't prepared? Lol. All of OPM's NBIB is pretty much getting absorbed into DSS and DoD's existing structure. Its not like there some "transfer of authority" from one agency to another that isn't being followed up by a transfer of resources.

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rebels8 on 4/25/2019(UTC)
someoldguy  
#1738 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2019 6:54:43 PM(UTC)
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I suspect that nothing will really change, to include the various IC agencies having the right to do their own BI's and adjudications, at least for direct hire folks. Also don't look for State Dept to join in on the fun. Same for FBI. Not sure about the DHS agencies but I suspect they will do their own adjudications.

And any OPM investigators who have been doing this a while who started out with DSS (or maybe DIS before that) will be back in DoD. But as somebody pointed out, NBIB is moving lock stock and barrel from OPM to DoD... so what changed? I suppose now there will be some Deputy Assistant Under Deputy Assistant Secretary in USD(I) or someplace who will now have this new monster (DSCA?) under their purview.
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buckaneers  
#1739 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2019 8:46:35 PM(UTC)
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Speculating here but I have a feeling that the C in DCSA will be kind of a misnomer. Security isn't CI and DCSA doesn't sound like it's going to be a strategic organization...thereby leaving much of DIA (which does strat stuff) alone.

People have been calling for DIA's dissolution since its founding. Although the stuff the agency does well isn't well known, it has a unique enough mission that it will stick around (unless a bunch of countries randomly decide they don't need to have national level military intelligence services anymore). To suggest anything else, IMO, is either sour grapes or just reflects a need for drama where there is none.

Edited by user Thursday, April 25, 2019 8:54:26 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Burnerr  
#1740 Posted : Thursday, January 23, 2020 11:58:13 AM(UTC)
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In light of breathing air back into our dead forum, my timeline went as follows:

Applied: April 8th, 2019
Hiring Event Invitation: May 21st, 2019
Hiring Event/CJO: July 12th, 2019
SF86 Submission: July 23rd, 2019
BI Interview: August 8th, 2019
CPC: August 25th, 2019
Successful adjudication/Clearance email: September 30th, 2019
Hiring Manager inquiring about interest over phone: November 26th, 2019
Pre-FJO Resume Request: January 16th, 2020
FJO: January 23rd, 2020

“Patience is bitter, but it's fruit is sweet.” Hang in there everyone.
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