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Office of Personnel Management

OPM is responsible for several broad categories such as employee recruitment and retention and oversees the overall federal workforce including managing, job announcement postings at USAJOBS.gov and setting governmentwide policies on hiring procedures.
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husker444  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 7:58:53 PM(UTC)
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Question: Term position - announcement states position is for 13 months NTE 4 years.

So when dies the “term” actually start? Someone at agency is telling me it starts from the day you accept the offer but this doesn't make sense because onboarding and
the background investigation could take some time.

If somebody has a source of the information they can provide it would be greatly appreciated.
GWPDA  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 6:27:24 AM(UTC)
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It starts when you accept (sign off) the Formal Offer which will have the 'enter on duty' date. You will receive an SF-50 showing your appointment, using that date as the beginning of the contract term. Thirteen months later the position ends unless it's renewed for another 13 months. By the way, that date is also your Service Computation Date and that is used to make any number of different calculations about your federal service through the years.

Edited by user Wednesday, July 17, 2019 6:30:20 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Tic3  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 6:27:39 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: husker444 Go to Quoted Post
Question: Term position - announcement states position is for 13 months NTE 4 years.

So when dies the “term” actually start? Someone at agency is telling me it starts from the day you accept the offer but this doesn't make sense because onboarding and
the background investigation could take some time.

If somebody has a source of the information they can provide it would be greatly appreciated.


You're not officially in the position until the Effective date listed in Block #4 of the SF-50, which is essentially your entrance on duty (EOD) date. You should get some sort of formal communication from the HR office telling you what your EOD date is.
husker444  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 6:32:57 AM(UTC)
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Thank you for your reply.

That us what I thought too.

Is there a OPM regulation or something that states this is fact?

It’s not that I don’t believe you, i just gave to have something to provide as proof to agency. They have it in their head it starts at the time I accepted the offer.

Thanks again.
HR Bubba  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 6:36:17 AM(UTC)

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The term starts on the effective date of your appointment; in other words, your 1st day on the job. It does not start when you sign/accept the formal offer. Also, extensions to term appointments can be done in any length, they do not have to be in the same increment as the initial Not To Exceed value.
husker444  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 6:40:00 AM(UTC)
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My offer letter stated a term not to exceed 4 years. The job announcement said 13 months. Two of us were hired from the same cert and the other person started already and their sf50 shows a 2 year term.

Its taking me awhile to get my clearance adjudicated so now the hiring manager is saying there will be no time left for me to cone onboard and have any time left to work since its only 13 month term; and were a few months into this since i accepted the offer.

I tried to explain regardless of how long it takes me to get cleared the 13 months or whatever begins on my start date/EOD.

I think they're going to pull the offer based upon that logic/reason.

Advice???
HR Bubba  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 10:11:42 AM(UTC)

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Unfortunately, management has the right to withdraw an offer for any reason up to the point at which the applicant is appointed. While you may have a convincing argument, they do not have to accept it.
husker444  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 11:01:56 AM(UTC)
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Thank you.

I understand they have that right to pull the offer. However, and I'm not trying to have a debate or anything but if the premise fir pulling the offer is flawed (i.e this adjudication tome is cutting into your term) shouldn't I point this out that it has no bearing and that they’ll still be able to get the full term of work out of me once I start?

Obviously they're going to do whatever they want but wouldn’t it be better to make an informed decision rather than an uniformed one?

Just asking, not looking to argue.
someoldguy  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 12:00:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: husker444 Go to Quoted Post
My offer letter stated a term not to exceed 4 years. The job announcement said 13 months. Two of us were hired from the same cert and the other person started already and their sf50 shows a 2 year term.
Gotta love it.

DISCLAIMER: You read it on an open internet forum :)
GWPDA  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 1:30:58 PM(UTC)
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The questions here are these: 1) What does HR mean by you have "accepted the offer"? 2) Have you been issued or received an SF-50 concerning this job?



husker444  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 1:37:53 PM(UTC)
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I have accepted a tentative offer. Going through on boarding clearance processing. They say cant give final offer till clearance approved. So they're waiting on that.

Its the supervisor who seems to think my term started when I accepted job offer and that time spent in adjudication cuts into my overall term.

Sorry if that was not clear originally.
GWPDA  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 5:22:12 PM(UTC)
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There you are. Your term has not started because you have not been hired. You know you haven't been hired because you have no SF50 showing your Enter on Duty date - the date you begin your employment. You also know you haven't been hired because there has been no money paid to you. They can't pay you until you're hired - it's a funny world that way.

They've also got some fairly bizarre ideas about how to hire. Lots of us here have started working without clearances or with only interim clearances. Clearances now, depending on their level, are taking as much as two years to finalize. Do they imagine you're going to stick around for two years without being paid?

Curious.
husker444  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 10:43:17 PM(UTC)
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Thanks GWPA,

I know I’m not hired yet etc and haven't started or anything, what the guy is saying is that the term/ job is for 13 months and anytime that is used get my clearance or otherwise onboard from the time I accepted the offer until the time i set foot in my new job counts towards that 13 months. So if it takes 2 months to onboard i have 10 months left to work .

I slways thought that in a caee like this my 13 months does not start until i start. That the clock starts on the date of appointment not on the day i accepted the tentative offer
GWPDA  
#14 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 6:11:23 AM(UTC)
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Husker - There has been no offer extended yet. You have not accepted what has not been extended. Your employment does not start until there is a Formal Offer with an accompanying SF50 and Enter on Duty date is presented and then accepted by you. There is no 13 months because there is no beginning. The start of the job is the Enter on Duty date, ONLY. From that date ONLY does any Term start.

What your quondam supervisor is saying is based on nothing. Until the job is offered formally and accepted, there is no clock. Your 'thirteen months' do not start until the Enter on Duty date is reached. Whatever time is spent acquiring a clearance is merely that - time spent acquiring a clearance. You are not employed. The clearance is being acquired prior to your employment.

Until there is an EOD there is no employment. Without employment, there is no term of employment. The supervisor needs to have this explained by HR.
husker444  
#15 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 6:58:16 AM(UTC)
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Thanks QWPDA.

Thats pretty much the answer i was looking for but i need some reference like from OPM that substantiates what you just said.

Because said hiring official believes the opposite to be the case, not as you explained it which i know to be the case but have nothing to support that being the case.

I can explain it to them that way but it means nothing without something to back it up.

HRO11  
#16 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 11:13:34 AM(UTC)
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The hiring manage is wrong. As stated by several repliers here the term appointment clock does not start until the effective date of your appointment.
husker444  
#17 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 11:36:56 AM(UTC)
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Thank you HRO11 and everyone for your wonderful responses.

I know they're wrong but getting something done about it might be a challenge.

I’ll stay on it though and thanks to everyone for your great help!
Tic3  
#18 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 10:20:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: husker444 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks QWPDA.

Thats pretty much the answer i was looking for but i need some reference like from OPM that substantiates what you just said.

Because said hiring official believes the opposite to be the case, not as you explained it which i know to be the case but have nothing to support that being the case.

I can explain it to them that way but it means nothing without something to back it up.




Maybe it's possible that the hiring manager received funding for the position and the FUNDING is only good for one year. For example, annual funding was authorized in the FY 2019 budget, which began in October. The funds expire in September 2019, so in that scenario, then the time it takes to go through the clearance, etc., would impact the length of your appointment.

Maybe the hiring official is just confused on the terminology.

husker444  
#19 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 10:52:22 AM(UTC)
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Thank Tic3,

Thats a good point but what doesn't make sense in that case is why the other person hired off the same cert for same job got a 2 year term on their sf50 which included the 5 months it took her to onboard which (according to what they're telling me snd applies to me) should have left her with remaining 8 months of the 13 month term.

Its all so whacked i don't know what to think.🤔
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