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poorfamily  
#41 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 6:40:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RuralMunky Go to Quoted Post
PO-610
1-2 Operational Process

The recipient (or agent) must be present to accept a signature item. If the recipient (or agent) is not available to sign for the item, the delivery employee must leave a notice. The delivery employee must check the box on the front of the PS Form 3849 that states, “If checked, you or your agent must be present at the time of delivery to sign for item,” and must record the appropriate scan event. A signed PS Form 3849 left by a customer does not constitute a valid signature for delivery. Exceptions for signature capture are allowed only for items that are endorsed with a Waiver of Signature.


There is no longer a box to check on the front of the 3849, or on the back for that matter.
RodOrRob  
#42 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 7:27:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: poorfamily Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RuralMunky Go to Quoted Post
PO-610
1-2 Operational Process

The recipient (or agent) must be present to accept a signature item. If the recipient (or agent) is not available to sign for the item, the delivery employee must leave a notice. The delivery employee must check the box on the front of the PS Form 3849 that states, “If checked, you or your agent must be present at the time of delivery to sign for item,” and must record the appropriate scan event. A signed PS Form 3849 left by a customer does not constitute a valid signature for delivery. Exceptions for signature capture are allowed only for items that are endorsed with a Waiver of Signature.


There is no longer a box to check on the front of the 3849, or on the back for that matter.


Yes, there is.
It says..
Signature required
https://faq.usps.com/s/a...m-3849-Redelivery-Notice

Can't get any clearer than that

Since the rule is ...The recipient (or agent) must be present to accept a signature item...

You can't accept a presigned signature.
poorfamily  
#43 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 7:58:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RodOrRob Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: poorfamily Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RuralMunky Go to Quoted Post
PO-610
1-2 Operational Process

The recipient (or agent) must be present to accept a signature item. If the recipient (or agent) is not available to sign for the item, the delivery employee must leave a notice. The delivery employee must check the box on the front of the PS Form 3849 that states, “If checked, you or your agent must be present at the time of delivery to sign for item,” and must record the appropriate scan event. A signed PS Form 3849 left by a customer does not constitute a valid signature for delivery. Exceptions for signature capture are allowed only for items that are endorsed with a Waiver of Signature.


There is no longer a box to check on the front of the 3849, or on the back for that matter.


Yes, there is.
It says..
Signature required
https://faq.usps.com/s/a...m-3849-Redelivery-Notice

Can't get any clearer than that

Since the rule is ...The recipient (or agent) must be present to accept a signature item...

You can't accept a presigned signature.


Well the form is pretty clear where it says that only applies to adult signature items. Those are items that either say adult signature required, or restricted delivery. Extra services that the sender has paid us for. I usually only see adult signature on cigarettes samples.

At best I would say the new 3849 is super confusing for the customers. The customer is given a place to Mark where they want us to leave the items and the only restriction being that we're not allowed to if they have that extra service. But yet our manuals tell us differently.
poorfamily  
#44 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 8:00:31 AM(UTC)
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https://faq.usps.com/s/a...Adult-Signature-Required

A link explaining these two extra Services. Note that a photo ID is required for both.
RodOrRob  
#45 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 3:03:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: poorfamily Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RodOrRob Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: poorfamily Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RuralMunky Go to Quoted Post
PO-610
1-2 Operational Process

The recipient (or agent) must be present to accept a signature item. If the recipient (or agent) is not available to sign for the item, the delivery employee must leave a notice. The delivery employee must check the box on the front of the PS Form 3849 that states, “If checked, you or your agent must be present at the time of delivery to sign for item,” and must record the appropriate scan event. A signed PS Form 3849 left by a customer does not constitute a valid signature for delivery. Exceptions for signature capture are allowed only for items that are endorsed with a Waiver of Signature.


There is no longer a box to check on the front of the 3849, or on the back for that matter.


Yes, there is.
It says..
Signature required
https://faq.usps.com/s/a...m-3849-Redelivery-Notice

Can't get any clearer than that

Since the rule is ...The recipient (or agent) must be present to accept a signature item...

You can't accept a presigned signature.


Well the form is pretty clear where it says that only applies to adult signature items. Those are items that either say adult signature required, or restricted delivery. Extra services that the sender has paid us for. I usually only see adult signature on cigarettes samples.

At best I would say the new 3849 is super confusing for the customers. The customer is given a place to Mark where they want us to leave the items and the only restriction being that we're not allowed to if they have that extra service. But yet our manuals tell us differently.


YES, OUR manuals, tell us differently...It's not clear that it only applies to those 2, since we know the rules, right?
YES, the new form is confusing to customers. That's a shame for them.

Leaving US to follow the manuals, with the knowledge that we can NOT leave anything requiring a signature unless the recipient signs in person.

Isn't that what most of us have been saying all along this thread?

Until the manual is rewritten/changed...we can't leave anything needing a signature unless it's a waiver of signature.

THAT should be clear now.
donaldworrell  
#46 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 7:13:05 PM(UTC)
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I think you guys are behind the curve of progress. Example I have va medicine that requires a signature. I leave notice. Next day I pick the notice up out of the mailbox. What do I do with the signed notice ? I give it to the accountable clerk. The clerk scans the notice and the next morning I have a printed piece of paper as a work order for redelvery of the va medicine. Still need someone to sign for it.

With the clerks putting this into there computer system we have prove that we as an office attempted to deliver this medicine.

Will need a clerk to explain there end of this but there is a program that is used for this.

Edited by user Friday, July 19, 2019 7:16:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

colty31  
#47 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 7:39:56 PM(UTC)
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So I pick up a signed 3849, which states that the item should be re-delivered. I turn in the slip and the next morning I get the item back with the signed slip attached to it. I then head to the street. Customer is not home (they work) so instead of scanning the signature they already left me on the 3849 I'm supposed to what? leave another notice telling them they have to pick it up in person?

this would piss off the customers on my route and everyone would be calling in to complain.

I'll have to check with my co-workers, I'm in a large 100+ route office but I'm 90% sure we are told to deliver the item if it has a signed 3849 with it.
RodOrRob  
#48 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 7:58:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
So I pick up a signed 3849, which states that the item should be re-delivered. I turn in the slip and the next morning I get the item back with the signed slip attached to it. I then head to the street. Customer is not home (they work) so instead of scanning the signature they already left me on the 3849 I'm supposed to what? leave another notice telling them they have to pick it up in person?

this would piss off the customers on my route and everyone would be calling in to complain.

I'll have to check with my co-workers, I'm in a large 100+ route office but I'm 90% sure we are told to deliver the item if it has a signed 3849 with it.


What's your point?.. customers will always complain when we don't do something they want, right or wrong.

If you understand the proper procedure about 3849 when an item requires a signature...you would circle the "signature required" (that box was already checked when 1st attempted) and leave that 3849 in their box. They will call and management will deal with telling them they must be present.

Smearski  
#49 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 8:14:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
So I pick up a signed 3849, which states that the item should be re-delivered. I turn in the slip and the next morning I get the item back with the signed slip attached to it. I then head to the street. Customer is not home (they work) so instead of scanning the signature they already left me on the 3849 I'm supposed to what? leave another notice telling them they have to pick it up in person?

this would piss off the customers on my route and everyone would be calling in to complain.

I'll have to check with my co-workers, I'm in a large 100+ route office but I'm 90% sure we are told to deliver the item if it has a signed 3849 with it.


Don’t listen to RoboCop, he’s one of those red-tape lovers. He’d of been a hit in Soviet Russia. Just use the signature on the 3849, like I, and all the rest of the carriers in my big ass office do. This guy has the mentality of a bureaucrat from something written by Kafka. The people on his route must hate his guts. I would. Who the hell has time to stand in line at the post office when you shouldn’t even be in that line in the first place? Boooo! RoboCop, boooooo!!
MPE2009  
#50 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 6:29:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Smearski Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
So I pick up a signed 3849, which states that the item should be re-delivered. I turn in the slip and the next morning I get the item back with the signed slip attached to it. I then head to the street. Customer is not home (they work) so instead of scanning the signature they already left me on the 3849 I'm supposed to what? leave another notice telling them they have to pick it up in person?

this would piss off the customers on my route and everyone would be calling in to complain.

I'll have to check with my co-workers, I'm in a large 100+ route office but I'm 90% sure we are told to deliver the item if it has a signed 3849 with it.


Don’t listen to RoboCop, he’s one of those red-tape lovers. He’d of been a hit in Soviet Russia. Just use the signature on the 3849, like I, and all the rest of the carriers in my big ass office do. This guy has the mentality of a bureaucrat from something written by Kafka. The people on his route must hate his guts. I would. Who the hell has time to stand in line at the post office when you shouldn’t even be in that line in the first place? Boooo! RoboCop, boooooo!!


Yes, that's the ticket. We were all wrong together, therefore none of us are wrong. Quite the intelligent argument followed up by some real classy personal insults. Sounds like a political rally I read about on the news that recently took place in South Carolina. I truly want to thank you Smearski for lowering the curve for the rest of us. You just caused nearly every other member of this forum to appear slightly more intelligent and reasonable.
postalvet  
#51 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 8:48:52 AM(UTC)
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this is from 2006
https://about.usps.com/p...ml/pb22189/pb6kittx.html


"To provide better customer service and operational efficiency, the Postal Service™ has standardized the "Notice Left" operations for PS Form 3849, Delivery Notice/Reminder/Receipt, which applies to all ordinary parcels, accountable mail, and other Extra Services mailpieces. This standardization establishes a uniform process nationwide for when Postal Service employees must prepare and use PS Form 3849 for unsuccessful delivery attempts."
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
postalvet  
#52 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 8:50:49 AM(UTC)
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this is from feb 2019


https://faq.usps.com/s/a...m-3849-Redelivery-Notice

"PS Form 3849 is the Redelivery Notice left for a customer when a mailpiece is undeliverable. This form provides the customer with information on the type of mailpiece that was attempted by the Carrier, why the mailpiece was not left, and which delivery options are available. It provides the customer with options and information they need to either request a redelivery or pick up their mailpiece at the Post Office."
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
Smearski  
#53 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 4:09:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MPE2009 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Smearski Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
So I pick up a signed 3849, which states that the item should be re-delivered. I turn in the slip and the next morning I get the item back with the signed slip attached to it. I then head to the street. Customer is not home (they work) so instead of scanning the signature they already left me on the 3849 I'm supposed to what? leave another notice telling them they have to pick it up in person?

this would piss off the customers on my route and everyone would be calling in to complain.

I'll have to check with my co-workers, I'm in a large 100+ route office but I'm 90% sure we are told to deliver the item if it has a signed 3849 with it.


Don’t listen to RoboCop, he’s one of those red-tape lovers. He’d of been a hit in Soviet Russia. Just use the signature on the 3849, like I, and all the rest of the carriers in my big ass office do. This guy has the mentality of a bureaucrat from something written by Kafka. The people on his route must hate his guts. I would. Who the hell has time to stand in line at the post office when you shouldn’t even be in that line in the first place? Boooo! RoboCop, boooooo!!


Yes, that's the ticket. We were all wrong together, therefore none of us are wrong. Quite the intelligent argument followed up by some real classy personal insults. Sounds like a political rally I read about on the news that recently took place in South Carolina. I truly want to thank you Smearski for lowering the curve for the rest of us. You just caused nearly every other member of this forum to appear slightly more intelligent and reasonable.


No problemo, glad to be of help, MPwhateverthehellyoucallyourself.


Are you even a carrier? I’m pretty sure you’re not. If so, then whatever you say don’t mean s**t to me. Just another postal parasite.

Edited by user Saturday, July 20, 2019 4:12:07 PM(UTC)  | Reason: MPsucksc**k

roger.d  
#54 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 4:48:04 PM(UTC)
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Someone is off their meds again.
Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
Smearski  
#55 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 4:57:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
Someone is off their meds again.


Yeah, your retarded kid.
Seadogg  
#56 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 6:33:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Smearski Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: colty31 Go to Quoted Post
So I pick up a signed 3849, which states that the item should be re-delivered. I turn in the slip and the next morning I get the item back with the signed slip attached to it. I then head to the street. Customer is not home (they work) so instead of scanning the signature they already left me on the 3849 I'm supposed to what? leave another notice telling them they have to pick it up in person?

this would piss off the customers on my route and everyone would be calling in to complain.

I'll have to check with my co-workers, I'm in a large 100+ route office but I'm 90% sure we are told to deliver the item if it has a signed 3849 with it.


Don’t listen to RoboCop, he’s one of those red-tape lovers. He’d of been a hit in Soviet Russia. Just use the signature on the 3849, like I, and all the rest of the carriers in my big ass office do. This guy has the mentality of a bureaucrat from something written by Kafka. The people on his route must hate his guts. I would. Who the hell has time to stand in line at the post office when you shouldn’t even be in that line in the first place? Boooo! RoboCop, boooooo!!


To the extent that an organization has problems with bureaucracy (and this may in fact be an accurate example), the fault lies with those in charge, not with the craft worker trying to follow the rules.
122intheshade  
#57 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 7:05:37 PM(UTC)
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FWIW . . . it is interesting that the signature area of a 3849 lines up with the scan area of your scanner, in terms of signature, printed name, and address. And that the scanner will accept the signature once it detects the bar code on the slip. That could be taken as an IMPLICATION that the sig on the 3849 is valid for delivery. The scanner allows it.

As opposed to having a run-of-the-mill bar code scan unfinished on the scanner, then trying to hit an MSP. Scanner says NO.

Next week is the end time frame for discipline to be handed out for the "forgeries". We'll see how that goes.
We decide which is right; and which is an illusion. I've got blisters on me fingers!
Seadogg  
#58 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 7:23:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 122intheshade Go to Quoted Post
FWIW . . . it is interesting that the signature area of a 3849 lines up with the scan area of your scanner, in terms of signature, printed name, and address. And that the scanner will accept the signature once it detects the bar code on the slip. That could be taken as an IMPLICATION that the sig on the 3849 is valid for delivery. The scanner allows it.

As opposed to having a run-of-the-mill bar code scan unfinished on the scanner, then trying to hit an MSP. Scanner says NO.

Next week is the end time frame for discipline to be handed out for the "forgeries". We'll see how that goes.


Maybe the bosses WANT all this gray area/confusion. That way they can do the easy/fast/customer pleasing thing now, and if there is some instance of fraud in the future they can blame it on the carrier.
Tposters  
#59 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:51:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tposters Go to Quoted Post


This was right before I went on leave, but some carriers at my station reported no longer being able to scan the signed 3849 without also signing the scanner.



Having returned from leave, I can confirm this is the case. Now, certs/signature required items have to be signed for on the scanner itself. Clock's ticking on a customer getting their nose out of joint about it, but I'm certainly not going to be signing for them.

Edited by user Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:52:37 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

122intheshade  
#60 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 2:12:48 PM(UTC)
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I think it's nice that some of the time, the scanner already knows the address when I scan a sig item now. Then there are times when it gives the WRONG address.

On Saturday, I had a sig at 3342. The printed address was 3342. The scanner said the address was 3306. Customer confirmed that the item was his, at 3342. The item was a foreign registered, so maybe something was lost in the translation. Maybe it's as simple as 4+2=6, and that's what got loaded into the bar code.

I hope the new scanners have more processing power. Since they loaded the "Load" feature onto them, the scanners have ready slo-o-o-o-o-w-e-d down.
We decide which is right; and which is an illusion. I've got blisters on me fingers!
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