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That Applicant  
#321 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 9:45:59 AM(UTC)
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Hey everyone. I am a new member, but have been lurking for months. I figure that it is probably time to post my own timeline. For background, I have never held a clearance, have moderate foreign travel but no foreign contacts, and no drug use.

Application: 10/2017
Phone Screen: 09/2018
Operational Interview: 10/2018
CJO: 11/2018
e-QIP: 11/2018
e-QIP Follow-up: 04/2019
BI Interviews: 05/2019
Poly & Psych Scheduled: 06/2019
Poly & Psych #1: 07/2019
Poly #2: 07/2019
Adjudication: Ongoing

As you can see, I believe that my application sat on a pile for a year, but I have also heard rumors of system errors around that application time that may have affected their response time. Then, it seems like they still have a substantial backlog for background investigations, so my advice to to be as responsive and accommodating as possible to your investigator. Lastly, the poly is much more comfortable the second time around, so don't be discouraged if you can't make it through the first time.

I am sure there are other lurkers around, so I encourage you to sign up for an account and post your experience.
thebigone2087  
#322 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 9:49:12 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: That Applicant Go to Quoted Post
Hey everyone. I am a new member, but have been lurking for months. I figure that it is probably time to post my own timeline. For background, I have never held a clearance, have moderate foreign travel but no foreign contacts, and no drug use.

Application: 10/2017
Phone Screen: 09/2018
Operational Interview: 10/2018
CJO: 11/2018
e-QIP: 11/2018
e-QIP Follow-up: 04/2019
BI Interviews: 05/2019
Poly & Psych Scheduled: 06/2019
Poly & Psych #1: 07/2019
Poly #2: 07/2019
Adjudication: Ongoing

As you can see, I believe that my application sat on a pile for a year, but I have also heard rumors of system errors around that application time that may have affected their response time. Then, it seems like they still have a substantial backlog for background investigations, so my advice to to be as responsive and accommodating as possible to your investigator. Lastly, the poly is much more comfortable the second time around, so don't be discouraged if you can't make it through the first time.

I am sure there are other lurkers around, so I encourage you to sign up for an account and post your experience.


Wow, a five month span before you heard from an investigator... I think that’s one of the longer time differences between eQIP submission and first BI contact. That being said, looked like everything started moving quickly once that happened. Good luck!
BatDog123  
#323 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 9:54:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: That Applicant Go to Quoted Post
Hey everyone. I am a new member, but have been lurking for months. I figure that it is probably time to post my own timeline. For background, I have never held a clearance, have moderate foreign travel but no foreign contacts, and no drug use.

Application: 10/2017
Phone Screen: 09/2018
Operational Interview: 10/2018
CJO: 11/2018
e-QIP: 11/2018
e-QIP Follow-up: 04/2019
BI Interviews: 05/2019
Poly & Psych Scheduled: 06/2019
Poly & Psych #1: 07/2019
Poly #2: 07/2019
Adjudication: Ongoing

As you can see, I believe that my application sat on a pile for a year, but I have also heard rumors of system errors around that application time that may have affected their response time. Then, it seems like they still have a substantial backlog for background investigations, so my advice to to be as responsive and accommodating as possible to your investigator. Lastly, the poly is much more comfortable the second time around, so don't be discouraged if you can't make it through the first time.

I am sure there are other lurkers around, so I encourage you to sign up for an account and post your experience.


Were you notified once you were put in adjudication? Or did you gave to inquire with your recruiter?

Originally Posted by: thebigone2087 Go to Quoted Post


Wow, a five month span before you heard from an investigator... I think that’s one of the longer time differences between eQIP submission and first BI contact. That being said, looked like everything started moving quickly once that happened. Good luck!


I submitted my eQIP in December, but didn't hear from an investigator until this July.

thebigone2087  
#324 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 9:59:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: BatDog123 Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: thebigone2087 Go to Quoted Post


Wow, a five month span before you heard from an investigator... I think that’s one of the longer time differences between eQIP submission and first BI contact. That being said, looked like everything started moving quickly once that happened. Good luck!


I submitted my eQIP in December, but didn't hear from an investigator until this July.



Here I thought I read this entire thread. I was hoping to hear something by the end of August after submitting in June... so much for that.
BatDog123  
#325 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 10:09:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: thebigone2087 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BatDog123 Go to Quoted Post


I submitted my eQIP in December, but didn't hear from an investigator until this July.



Here I thought I read this entire thread. I was hoping to hear something by the end of August after submitting in June... so much for that.


I submitted mine late December, and it wasn't finished being reviewed until early March. And I didn't need to update/correct anything. So yeah, it can take a few months just in the review stage. My timeline is below.

Originally Posted by: BatDog123 Go to Quoted Post


09/18 - Applied
09/18 - Resume/Transcripts requested
10/18 - Recruiter Introduction/Scheduling of Interview
11/18 - Interviewed
12/18 - CJO
12/18 - eQIP submitted
01/19 - Credit Pulled
04/19 - Poly (Passed)
04/19 - Psych Completed, Documents Requested
05/19 - Requested documents returned
07/19 - BI Subject Interview face to face, with current employer also.


thebigone2087  
#326 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 10:11:34 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: BatDog123 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: thebigone2087 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BatDog123 Go to Quoted Post


I submitted my eQIP in December, but didn't hear from an investigator until this July.



Here I thought I read this entire thread. I was hoping to hear something by the end of August after submitting in June... so much for that.


I submitted mine late December, and it wasn't finished being reviewed until early March. And I didn't need to update/correct anything. So yeah, it can take a few months just in the review stage. My timeline is below.

Originally Posted by: BatDog123 Go to Quoted Post


09/18 - Applied
09/18 - Resume/Transcripts requested
10/18 - Recruiter Introduction/Scheduling of Interview
11/18 - Interviewed
12/18 - CJO
12/18 - eQIP submitted
01/19 - Credit Pulled
04/19 - Poly (Passed)
04/19 - Psych Completed, Documents Requested
05/19 - Requested documents returned
07/19 - BI Subject Interview face to face, with current employer also.




Ahh that’s why I was confused. You had your poly before you were contact by the BI, which I hadn’t seen too often. Thanks for the clarification!
That Applicant  
#327 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 10:45:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: BatDog123 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: That Applicant Go to Quoted Post

Application: 10/2017
Phone Screen: 09/2018
Operational Interview: 10/2018
CJO: 11/2018
e-QIP: 11/2018
e-QIP Follow-up: 04/2019
BI Interviews: 05/2019
Poly & Psych Scheduled: 06/2019
Poly & Psych #1: 07/2019
Poly #2: 07/2019
Adjudication: Ongoing


Were you notified once you were put in adjudication? Or did you gave to inquire with your recruiter?



I was notified that I was put in adjudication. The current estimate they gave was 4-6 months.
That Applicant  
#328 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 10:56:58 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: thebigone2087 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BatDog123 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: thebigone2087 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BatDog123 Go to Quoted Post


I submitted my eQIP in December, but didn't hear from an investigator until this July.

Here I thought I read this entire thread. I was hoping to hear something by the end of August after submitting in June... so much for that.

I submitted mine late December, and it wasn't finished being reviewed until early March. And I didn't need to update/correct anything. So yeah, it can take a few months just in the review stage. My timeline is below.

Ahh that’s why I was confused. You had your poly before you were contact by the BI, which I hadn’t seen too often. Thanks for the clarification!


From reading the 2018 and 2019 timeline forum topics, it sounds like they've transitioned from doing the BI last to doing the BI first over time. I suspect this is because DoD is now helping OPM get through the backlog, so the BI phase is getting a bit quicker.

EDIT: My assumption of why the BI would be first/last is most likely wrong, as pointed out by other posters.

Edited by user Friday, July 26, 2019 12:14:34 PM(UTC)  | Reason: My assumption of why the BI would be first/last is most likely wrong

BatDog123  
#329 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 11:37:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: That Applicant Go to Quoted Post


I was notified that I was put in adjudication. The current estimate they gave was 4-6 months.


Dang, hopefully I can get an email like that soon. I'm glad they atleast let you know.

Originally Posted by: That Applicant Go to Quoted Post


From reading the 2018 and 2019 timeline forum topics, it sounds like they've transitioned from doing the BI last to doing the BI first over time. I suspect this is because DoD is now helping OPM get through the backlog, so the BI phase is getting a bit quicker.



Yeah, I agree with what Porgy said above. I think my case is just going in its own direction because I am going for a business role, that I think is filled based off of people leaving/retiring. That was the rumor I heard. So hiring for this position is ongoing, and as needed.
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rkf4ever on 8/1/2019(UTC)
Pajibaem  
#330 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 4:24:28 AM(UTC)
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Greetings,

Long time lurker with a question. When you all had your BI, was it with a contractor you meet up with? Or was it with an agency rep? I ask because for the longest time I thought I hadn't had a BI yet, but the day before I did my poly/psych I was sat down with someone at FANX and went over my SF86. My confusion stems from the military BI is done with contractors and you usually meet at a starbucks or something. Anyway here is my timeline:

11/17: Applied
2/18: Phone interview
3/18: HR screen
4/18: CJO
5/18: SF86 turned in
11/18: additional paperwork sent in
1/19: BI interview/poly/psych (picture chunk from goonies)
4/19-6/19: after emailing recruiter for status I'm told I was missing paperwork and should have received an email 12 weeks prior... no email
7/19: recruiter can't tell me anything, but I am still active in the suitability process.
George Maschke  
#331 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 12:18:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: darkstallion Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cornhusker18 Go to Quoted Post
Hi everyone,

I Earlier posted my timeline stating I had been scheduled for poly and psych eval. Has anyone failed the 1st poly from a false positive and passed the second one answering the same? I took 1st poly and apparently I was found to be lying on 2 questions when I was answering honestly.
My main question is however, when you took you second poly, do you redo the entire poly (both counterintelligence and lifestyle) or just the one you had issues with?

Thanks


Just got back from my Polygraph. It was an absolute N I G H T M A R E. 4 hours in a room with wires attached to 4 different parts of your body, whole time being accused that I was lying about the drug use question... and I have never done drugs in my life!!!! Never felt so deceived/cheated/disrespected in my entire life, almost started tearing up around the 4th hour of begging them to do a drug test on me and that I was not lying. I also do not know if when you take the second if they skip everything else and just ask you the one they didn't believe you in or they do the whole thing over again. Either way, it's a sham and it sucks.


You are quite right that the polygraph is a sham. It's a pseudoscientific fraud that was developed by non-scientists in the early 20th century. It's inherently biased against the truthful, easy for liars to beat, and there's no documented instance of polygraph screening ever catching a spy.

The polygraph technique used by the NSA is called the "Relevant/Irrelevant Test." You'll find documentation of this invalid technique beginning at p. 122 of a free book I co-authored titled The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.

You're hardly alone in having a nightmare experience with the NSA polygraph. On AntiPolygraph.org's Public Statements page, you'll find four statements by NSA polygraph victims. See also the pseudonymous Ralph J. Perro's essay, "Interviewing with an Intelligence Agency (or, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Fort Meade)" on the Federation of American Scientists' website.
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NoStringsAttached  
#332 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 4:09:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: NoStringsAttached Go to Quoted Post
Been a lurker ever since I applied and figured I can share my timeline as well.

1/19 - applied for a STEM position
2/19 - Scheduled proficiency exam
3/19 - Took Exam/Passed exam
3/19 - Received CJO
4/19 - Request to fill out SF-86 on e-QUIP/Request for revision once
5/19 - Was contacted by BI
6/19 - Met with investigator
6/19 - Scheduled Operational Interviews/Psych Assessment/Poly
7/19 - Operational Interviews/Psych Assessment/Poly

Not going to lie, I'm freaking out a bit over these upcoming interviews and polygraph. I have nothing to hide on the poly so I'm not as worried over that as I am the interviews. They said I need to solve at least one 'toy problem' in front of them and I have no idea what that will be like and am terrified I'll mess everything up. This is my dream job and has been for many years. I really want to do this right!

The interviews were not as bad as I expected. Really interesting. The problem is that I failed the polygraph! They said I was lying when I wasn't. It is rescheduled for August. I am getting more nervous now because I don't know what else to do but tell the truth and if it's showing up as a lie on the poly, I can't change anything. I'm really worried that I won't get my dream job due to a faulty reading!
George Maschke  
#333 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 5:43:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: NoStringsAttached Go to Quoted Post
The interviews were not as bad as I expected. Really interesting. The problem is that I failed the polygraph! They said I was lying when I wasn't. It is rescheduled for August. I am getting more nervous now because I don't know what else to do but tell the truth and if it's showing up as a lie on the poly, I can't change anything. I'm really worried that I won't get my dream job due to a faulty reading!


It would be prudent to make no admission of any kind, no matter how insistent the polygraph operator may be. For tips on how to mitigate the risk of wrongly failing the polygraph, see Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.

Edited by user Monday, July 29, 2019 5:44:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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BatDog123  
#334 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 6:04:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: George Maschke Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NoStringsAttached Go to Quoted Post
The interviews were not as bad as I expected. Really interesting. The problem is that I failed the polygraph! They said I was lying when I wasn't. It is rescheduled for August. I am getting more nervous now because I don't know what else to do but tell the truth and if it's showing up as a lie on the poly, I can't change anything. I'm really worried that I won't get my dream job due to a faulty reading!


It would be prudent to make no admission of any kind, no matter how insistent the polygraph operator may be. For tips on how to mitigate the risk of wrongly failing the polygraph, see Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.


Anti-Polygraph..... This is the second forum I've seen you post on, frequently responding with information like this. We get it. You don't agree with the poly..

The polygraph is part of NSA's process, and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Encouraging others to learn how to "beat the polygraph" are not conducive to someone looking to go through this journey in a totally honest format. You could be costing someone their chances if they were to be found to be using counter measures during their poly.

I'm really having a hard time determining if you honestly want to "help" applicants, or just sell your books.


It's not uncommon to fail the first polygraph, and have to go back for another one. Sometimes your nerves can just be through the roof and send mixed signals. A good night of sleep, being honest with your poly administrator, and having a clear mind are what I found to be extremely helpful. If something is worrying you during the poly, tell the poly administrator. They aren't there to "get you". They are just doing their job.
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NoStringsAttached on 7/29/2019(UTC)
George Maschke  
#335 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 6:20:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: BatDog123 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: George Maschke Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NoStringsAttached Go to Quoted Post
The interviews were not as bad as I expected. Really interesting. The problem is that I failed the polygraph! They said I was lying when I wasn't. It is rescheduled for August. I am getting more nervous now because I don't know what else to do but tell the truth and if it's showing up as a lie on the poly, I can't change anything. I'm really worried that I won't get my dream job due to a faulty reading!


It would be prudent to make no admission of any kind, no matter how insistent the polygraph operator may be. For tips on how to mitigate the risk of wrongly failing the polygraph, see Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.


Anti-Polygraph..... This is the second forum I've seen you post on, frequently responding with information like this. We get it. You don't agree with the poly..

The polygraph is part of NSA's process, and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Encouraging others to learn how to "beat the polygraph" are not conducive to someone looking to go through this journey in a totally honest format. You could be costing someone their chances if they were to be found to be using counter measures during their poly.

I'm really having a hard time determining if you honestly want to "help" applicants, or just sell your books.


It's not uncommon to fail the first polygraph, and have to go back for another one. Sometimes your nerves can just be through the roof and send mixed signals. A good night of sleep, being honest with your poly administrator, and having a clear mind are what I found to be extremely helpful. If something is worrying you during the poly, tell the poly administrator. They aren't there to "get you". They are just doing their job.


Indeed, the polygraph has been part of NSA's hiring process since 1952. I don't encourage others to learn how to beat the polygraph, but rather to educate themselves regarding what can be done to mitigate the high risk of a false positive outcome. I'm not trying to sell books. The Lie Behind the Lie Detector is free, as is all information on AntiPolygraph.org, which is a non-profit, public interest website.

You are correct that it's not uncommon to "fail" the first polygraph, and to have to return for another one. In fact, this appears to be standard practice at both NSA and CIA, which also employs the Relevant/Irrelevant technique. You are wrong in supposing that telling the truth has anything to do with passing the polygraph, however. The "test" is completely invalid and has no diagnostic value. The polygraph operators are indeed there to "get you." They are rated based on the admissions they obtain. Getting admissions is the whole point of polygraph screening. The key deception in polygraphy is to convince the examinee that making admissions will help him to pass while in fact, the opposite is true.

NSA produced a public relations video about polygraphy about a decade ago. Perhaps it's still being shown. A video commentary I produced may be instructive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93_FDeMENN4
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NoStringsAttached  
#336 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 6:25:29 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: BatDog123 Go to Quoted Post

It's not uncommon to fail the first polygraph, and have to go back for another one. Sometimes your nerves can just be through the roof and send mixed signals. A good night of sleep, being honest with your poly administrator, and having a clear mind are what I found to be extremely helpful. If something is worrying you during the poly, tell the poly administrator. They aren't there to "get you". They are just doing their job.

Yeah, I'm not paying any attention to the anti-polygraph stuff. I'm not lying so it would be incredibly stupid for me to make any attempts at "beating" the polygraph in any way. Doesn't make me any less nervous.

It was weird because I felt the anxiety each time they said I was lying. So I know that as soon as I felt it, no matter what I said would have shown up as a lie. I don't know how to control how I feel to fix that. I know it's pretty common to fail the first one. I just hope that since I was up at 5am two days in a row, along with a long day of psych testing before the poly is what accounted for it. At least I only have to do half of the questions over again and it's not until the afternoon. Hopefully being able to sleep in and it not being as long will help with whatever caused my anxiety with the certain questions asked.

thebigone2087  
#337 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 7:17:54 AM(UTC)
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So out of curiosity, when you all were contacted by your BI, were you called or did you receive an email?
NoStringsAttached  
#338 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 7:26:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: thebigone2087 Go to Quoted Post
So out of curiosity, when you all were contacted by your BI, were you called or did you receive an email?

I was called.
That Applicant  
#339 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 9:27:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: NoStringsAttached Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BatDog123 Go to Quoted Post

It's not uncommon to fail the first polygraph, and have to go back for another one. Sometimes your nerves can just be through the roof and send mixed signals. A good night of sleep, being honest with your poly administrator, and having a clear mind are what I found to be extremely helpful. If something is worrying you during the poly, tell the poly administrator. They aren't there to "get you". They are just doing their job.

Yeah, I'm not paying any attention to the anti-polygraph stuff. I'm not lying so it would be incredibly stupid for me to make any attempts at "beating" the polygraph in any way. Doesn't make me any less nervous.

It was weird because I felt the anxiety each time they said I was lying. So I know that as soon as I felt it, no matter what I said would have shown up as a lie. I don't know how to control how I feel to fix that. I know it's pretty common to fail the first one. I just hope that since I was up at 5am two days in a row, along with a long day of psych testing before the poly is what accounted for it. At least I only have to do half of the questions over again and it's not until the afternoon. Hopefully being able to sleep in and it not being as long will help with whatever caused my anxiety with the certain questions asked.



NoStrings,

First of all. Glad to hear that your interview went well. I totally relate to you regarding the stress that you put on mentally preparing for the interview/psych/poly after presumably travelling some distance to be there. To ease your fears just a bit, the second time is much easier and you only have to repeat the section (CI or Background) of the poly that came back as failed or inconclusive. Each examiner has their own tactics and methods to make sure that you are focused on what is important and they all talk to each other, so your next examiner will likely use a strategy to isolate the questions that you had trouble with. While this can also be really intimidating, it makes it so much easier for you to tell the truth without producing one of the reactions that you had mentioned in your original post.

Just continue to tell the truth and remain sure of your answers and I am confident that you'll get a passing result to pursue your dream job. Good luck!

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BatDog123  
#340 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 9:27:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: George Maschke Go to Quoted Post



The "test" is completely invalid and has no diagnostic value. The polygraph operators are indeed there to "get you." They are rated based on the admissions they obtain.



It is a required component in order to succeed at achieving employment with NSA. Regardless whether you think its invalid and has no value. ALL applicants have to take the polygraph without option. They aren't out to get anyone. They are screening for candor issues and potential threats that could be detrimental to national security. Getting the admissions out of a person is extremely vital when screening candidates for this agency.

So really, your advice has little to no value here.

Originally Posted by: NoStringsAttached Go to Quoted Post

Yeah, I'm not paying any attention to the anti-polygraph stuff. I'm not lying so it would be incredibly stupid for me to make any attempts at "beating" the polygraph in any way. Doesn't make me any less nervous.

It was weird because I felt the anxiety each time they said I was lying. So I know that as soon as I felt it, no matter what I said would have shown up as a lie. I don't know how to control how I feel to fix that. I know it's pretty common to fail the first one. I just hope that since I was up at 5am two days in a row, along with a long day of psych testing before the poly is what accounted for it. At least I only have to do half of the questions over again and it's not until the afternoon. Hopefully being able to sleep in and it not being as long will help with whatever caused my anxiety with the certain questions asked.



If I had to take the polygraph AFTER the psych, I would have been a bundle of nerves also. I felt like some sort of loon after that portion, lol. Just try to clear your mind before hand, and speak with the poly administrator before hand with any concerns you may have. My poly administrator was extremely helpful and reassuring.

Originally Posted by: thebigone2087 Go to Quoted Post
So out of curiosity, when you all were contacted by your BI, were you called or did you receive an email?

I received a phone call.
thanks 2 users thanked BatDog123 for this useful post.
That Applicant on 7/29/2019(UTC), NoStringsAttached on 7/31/2019(UTC)
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