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Federal Employees: You be the Judge


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jenn05  
#1 Posted : Saturday, August 31, 2019 3:44:45 PM(UTC)
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I am at the step now where I can file a claim through the EEOC or Civil Action. Does anyone know which one is better? Can anyone see your information more easily when googling you on one vs the other? It said you may be able to get an attorney if you file a civil action, what are the chances of that?

Thank you in advance
DroneBee  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2019 9:37:19 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: jenn05 Go to Quoted Post
I am at the step now where I can file a claim through the EEOC or Civil Action.

I am an expert in this arena, and I have no idea what you are saying. Did you go through the EEOC process? That is the ONLY way to go to Civil court if you initiated an EEOC complaint and the EEOC process has been exhausted.

Originally Posted by: jenn05 Go to Quoted Post
Does anyone know which one is better?

Better for the complainant? Neither - you will lose in both EEOC and Civil court. You can look up EEOC stats on your agency - the stats are published. The "win" rate is from zero percent to 2%. For Court, you will not win.

Originally Posted by: jenn05 Go to Quoted Post
Can anyone see your information more easily when googling you on one vs the other?

If you go to Court, "your information" is public. If you go through the EEOC process, the EEOC will publish the results with a dummy name.

Originally Posted by: jenn05 Go to Quoted Post
It said you may be able to get an attorney if you file a civil action, what are the chances of that?

*YOU* may get an attorney and pay out of pocket. The agency is not giving you an attorney. The agency supports the oppressor who will be given an agency attorney for the EEOC process; for the Court process, the agency pays the DOJ for an attorney or attorneys.

My advice - get another job now! Apply for anything and get out. The agency will go after you full force.

God Bless.
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jenn05 on 9/6/2019(UTC)
FedUpFed25x  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2019 3:56:04 PM(UTC)
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Wholeheartedly agree with DroneBee!

There is virtually NO chance of winning an EEO case if your agency decides to hunker down and support the perpetrator(s), which is what they usually do.

Even if you find an attorney who might take your case, be prepared to spend at least $5-10K up front, and don't expect to get any result for that. I hired one of the (supposedly) best legal teams in D.C. and after four years I realized they really didn't care about getting any relief or justice for me, they were just after billing hours. It's ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY.

Complainants don't have the limitless budget that the Agency does - meaning, their lawyers are "free" and will never stop trying to find ways to discredit or discipline you, and will do everything possible to get rid of you. My Agency's attorney actually had the nerve to say that outright to my attorney - they would continue find any little thing they could to get me fired, preferably before I was fully retirement eligible. And they would have done it, because they knew my only recourse would be to keep spending money on attorney's fees and spend years trying to fight it after the fact.

The Agency will often work with your perpetrator(s) and anyone else who may have an axe to grind. Don't even count on those who say they will support you to do so if they must provide a statement or testify - when faced with the potential loss of job or potential career-ending retaliation, many of your allies will conveniently forget things or "not remember" events which may have happened.

I worked for an Agency which is the penultimate good ole boy network. In another case prior to mine, a woman's supervisor harassed her daily, including sexual suggestions and comments about her body and did so in front of people. She complained and no one did anything. The EEO office dismissed her complaints and "lost" her paperwork on multiple times. The perp finally escalated his behavior to cornering her in the office, shoving his hands down into her pants and was even stalking her at her home and making obscene phone calls to her. She finally had to quit. At no point did the Agency do anything to this man. In fact, they circled the wagons and did all they could to protect him.

There is no single event in my life which was so transformative for me. During my EEO process, I got to see every negative and cowardly behavior that most humans will resort to. Hatred, vindictiveness, relentless lying, retaliation, jealousy, clannishness, etc.

Get out as fast as you can and get another job. Even if it means taking a downgrade and moving. It will be easier in the long run than the financial, mental, emotional and physical toll it will take on you and your loved ones.







thanks 2 users thanked FedUpFed25x for this useful post.
jenn05 on 9/6/2019(UTC), DroneBee on 9/7/2019(UTC)
nightstalker2  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2019 4:27:11 AM(UTC)
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you should take a stand in fighting but be prepare to leave the agency you work for if you have video tape and recording and have other agencies involved in their violations you might stand a chance. everyone there is to protect the agency not you but if you got the right to file you can find a young lawyer fresh out of law school and a veteran lawyer and fight.
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jenn05 on 9/6/2019(UTC)
nightchop  
#5 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2019 4:14:40 AM(UTC)

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The timing of these types of posts are always hilarious. Hilarious, I say! SMH
jenn05  
#6 Posted : Friday, September 6, 2019 9:33:56 AM(UTC)
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thank you for all your responses, they were very informative. what was the joke with the timing of the post, I missed the joke :) in response to you drone I was referring to the fact that after so many days (180?) you can file a civil action (or you can file before an eeoc judge). I understand all of what you guys are saying. I am sorry you had to go through that. I hope you are all in a better place now, with kind people. Take care!
jenn05  
#7 Posted : Friday, September 6, 2019 9:36:55 AM(UTC)
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I tried to press the thank you button dronebee but its just not working, so ill do it the old fashioned way again, THank you! :)
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DroneBee on 9/7/2019(UTC)
Fedfox  
#8 Posted : Sunday, September 8, 2019 6:17:54 PM(UTC)
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I have a pretty good claim. I will also say I have very clean hands... Excellent evaluation history, significant awards and no complaints. I have been able to get an attorney to represent me with the understanding that the agency would reimburse them.

My relationship with my agency has been destroyed. My agency systematically retaliates against complainants. From what I can tell the more merit a claim has the more aggressively the agency defends the perpetrator by whatever means necessary. If and when they realize the victim is going to win, they try to settle using deceptive settlement terms.

The agency won’t acknowledge that they were wrong unless they get a ruling against them in EEOC Court and there is a court order. The AJs give the agencies multiple opportunities to negotiate a settlement rather than rule against them. The process drags on. The are long periods of time where the victim doesn’t know the status of their case.

The process is emotionally trying and has permanently ruined my health. If you decide to file a complaint do so as a last resort. I have no regrets because I tried everything to resolve the discrimination before I took this step.
Filing an EEOC complaint is not for the faint of heart.

That being said choosing between federal court and EEOC depends on how simple your case is. Federal court is great for a simple single issue cases. It is important that you choose the right forum. It seems cases brought in DC have the best chance of success. The federal system is unforgiving. It moves very fast and it gets expensive very fast. You are also more likely to get all of your evidence. The EEOC on the other hand moves very very slow. It is more forgiving and you could represent yourself through a large part of it. Don’t expect the agency to provide you with information and use an attorney for the hearing stage of the process.
frankgonzalez  
#9 Posted : Monday, September 9, 2019 4:14:50 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fedfox Go to Quoted Post
That being said choosing between federal court and EEOC depends on how simple your case is. Federal court is great for a simple single issue cases. It is important that you choose the right forum. It seems cases brought in DC have the best chance of success. The federal system is unforgiving. It moves very fast and it gets expensive very fast. You are also more likely to get all of your evidence. The EEOC on the other hand moves very very slow. It is more forgiving and you could represent yourself through a large part of it. Don’t expect the agency to provide you with information and use an attorney for the hearing stage of the process.
I work in EEO and while I know the system and process very well, I got an attorney at the hearing stage. And we were able to settle it in the end (I was already in my current position so wasn't looking at going back to that specific agency i filed against!)...but I had solid evidence and great witnesses on my side, and the management official lost their temper during deposition (good for me...had we not settled the case, we were going to put them on the stand, and the examination would have been a lot more aggressive than in the deposition, so if they couldn't handle the depo, then I'm pretty certain they would really lose it on the stand!).


You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
DroneBee  
#10 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2019 12:10:09 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Fedfox Go to Quoted Post
I have been able to get an attorney to represent me with the understanding that the agency would reimburse them.

This seems strange - you have something from the agency stating reimbursement? Or are the lawyers performing on contingency?


Originally Posted by: Fedfox Go to Quoted Post
Filing an EEOC complaint is not for the faint of heart.

True - and I am sorry for all you faced. I did too - had great appraisals, etc., but was a whistleblower for my country and was completely shattered by deception, lies, etc.

Originally Posted by: Fedfox Go to Quoted Post
That being said choosing between federal court and EEOC depends on how simple your case is. Federal court is great for a simple single issue cases.

Agree!

I also add for those considering filing anything - do not put in a grievance in the first place (you will lose more than time and money) - get another job.

God Bless.
Small Agency Oversight  
#11 Posted : Thursday, October 3, 2019 10:36:22 AM(UTC)
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file in EEO first because if you lose you can file again in civil court

file in civil court if you want it to be over quickly - you won't be assigned to a judge in EEO for at least 11 months
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