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beer30  
#1 Posted : Friday, January 10, 2020 12:30:26 PM(UTC)
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Hi, new to the forum but have a question I hope I can get answered here. I am a PTF in an office with only one other clerk that is NTFT. The NTFT is retiring in a few months and it's not clear how I fit in the hiring order.

I have heard terms like bid cluster and pod but no one I work with really knows what those definitions are. Bottom line is we have a PM, there are no other offices under us. We are our own "pod".

Where will I fit in line for this job? Do I need to worry about any other PTF from other locations?

Thanks in advance.
postalvet  
#2 Posted : Friday, January 10, 2020 1:48:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: beer30 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, new to the forum but have a question I hope I can get answered here. I am a PTF in an office with only one other clerk that is NTFT. The NTFT is retiring in a few months and it's not clear how I fit in the hiring order.

I have heard terms like bid cluster and pod but no one I work with really knows what those definitions are. Bottom line is we have a PM, there are no other offices under us. We are our own "pod".

Where will I fit in line for this job? Do I need to worry about any other PTF from other locations?

Thanks in advance.


ask a letter carrier the number of offices they can bid to.

no one can say what will happen as management might decide to revert the position.
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
z165012  
#3 Posted : Friday, January 10, 2020 2:42:03 PM(UTC)
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to my understanding it SHOULD go up for the office first, which would be you, if it is just you and a NTFT...I worked a ton of offices as a PTF and none were a NTFT and a PTF...management is doing their best to eliminate specified hours, so I would suspect that they don't replace the NTFT as a NTFT and simply make it another PTF position. one of the offices I worked in had an FTR retire and the office dynamic was FTR and PTF, area postmasters were shocked that the PM of that office kept the FTR position and got his PTF into that position (she had been at the office 20 years as a PTF, the PM 2-3 years)…

in my current office the POOM was explaining to my PM that we don't qualify for a PSE because of our staffing dynamics with a Flex-NTFT, a regular NTFT, and 4 FTR clerks, that to qualify we would need one of the NTFT's to become FTR because of the way a NTFT counts in terms of staffing levels...

the crazy thing?...the NTFT's have been with the office for 18+ years each, I know the NTFT (32 hour) isn't going to bid on a change, not sure on the 40 hour Flex-NTFT because as a Flex they are entitled to 2 days in a row off, so I double that they would do a bid change...this because I came in as the Lead last year because no one in the office bid on it and the PSE at the time didn't have the required 1 year of window qualification...

I suspect the FTR BMEU position does not get replaced when that guy leaves either, it will just be an 'added' duty to one of the clerks, much like 'box' 'CFS' 'PFS' or 'passport agent' duties...
beer30  
#4 Posted : Friday, January 10, 2020 3:17:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
ask a letter carrier the number of offices they can bid to.

no one can say what will happen as management might decide to revert the position.


Why would I ask a letter carrier about a different craft process? I must be missing something.

Originally Posted by: z165012 Go to Quoted Post
to my understanding it SHOULD go up for the office first, which would be you, if it is just you and a NTFT...I worked a ton of offices as a PTF and none were a NTFT and a PTF...management is doing their best to eliminate specified hours, so I would suspect that they don't replace the NTFT as a NTFT and simply make it another PTF position.


Thanks for your insight. The PM has said it will remain a NTFT position and they want me to get it. It's just not clear how it works. I would actually love it if they would make the office 2 PTF instead of the way it's structured now.

It's amazing to me how many long time employees have no idea how things work or even where to go to get the information.

roger.d  
#5 Posted : Friday, January 10, 2020 4:14:27 PM(UTC)
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A call to your NBA should clear up the question of the pecking order.
Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
beer30  
#6 Posted : Friday, January 10, 2020 4:15:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
A call to your NBA should clear up the question of the pecking order.


Sweet, what's an NBA and where would I find their number?

roger.d  
#7 Posted : Friday, January 10, 2020 4:18:34 PM(UTC)
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Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
postalvet  
#8 Posted : Friday, January 10, 2020 5:39:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: beer30 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
ask a letter carrier the number of offices they can bid to.

no one can say what will happen as management might decide to revert the position.


Why would I ask a letter carrier about a different craft process? I must be missing something.




ya you are missing something.

seeing how you said there was only one ntft and you apparently don't know anything about them. you ask a carrier how many places they can bid and you will know what offices are attached to the office you work at if any.
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
beer30  
#9 Posted : Friday, January 10, 2020 6:52:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: beer30 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
ask a letter carrier the number of offices they can bid to.

no one can say what will happen as management might decide to revert the position.


Why would I ask a letter carrier about a different craft process? I must be missing something.




ya you are missing something.

seeing how you said there was only one ntft and you apparently don't know anything about them. you ask a carrier how many places they can bid and you will know what offices are attached to the office you work at if any.


Sorry, I thought I already established that. We are our own pod (bid cluster) and have no RMPOs. One post master and one office. The carriers can't bid on any other places because that is their process. That still doesn't answer the question about the pecking order for the NTFT position. When a position opens for clerks within 50 miles it is advertised to all offices within that radius at some point. That doesn't happen for carriers. Trust me, I have asked the salty old carriers and they don't have a clue. I have asked my post master and another post master in a neighboring office and they don't know. I have asked the NTFT and she has no idea the process. I can also assure you I know as much about NTFT as the individual who has been in the position for a decade or more. I find it hard to believe I have to call someone at a national level office for something that should be spelled out in black and white somewhere.

The question I have is will I have first option for the position, or will it be offered to any NTFT/FTR within the mileage limit first or even to other PTFs and be based on seniority. Here's the way I think it works but again, no one can confirm or deny:

1 - NTFT/FTR within the POD (there are none)
2 - NTFT/FTR 50 mile letter
3 - PTF within the POD (I am the only one)
4 - PTF 50 mile letter
5 - eCareer posting
6 - public posting on USPS.com

Obviously it would never get past 3 as I would take it in this current pecking order. I just don't know if this pecking order is correct specifically 2 and 3.
postalvet  
#10 Posted : Friday, January 10, 2020 7:57:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: beer30 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: beer30 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
ask a letter carrier the number of offices they can bid to.

no one can say what will happen as management might decide to revert the position.


Why would I ask a letter carrier about a different craft process? I must be missing something.




ya you are missing something.

seeing how you said there was only one ntft and you apparently don't know anything about them. you ask a carrier how many places they can bid and you will know what offices are attached to the office you work at if any.


Sorry, I thought I already established that. We are our own pod (bid cluster) and have no RMPOs. One post master and one office. The carriers can't bid on any other places because that is their process. That still doesn't answer the question about the pecking order for the NTFT position. When a position opens for clerks within 50 miles it is advertised to all offices within that radius at some point. That doesn't happen for carriers. Trust me, I have asked the salty old carriers and they don't have a clue. I have asked my post master and another post master in a neighboring office and they don't know. I have asked the NTFT and she has no idea the process. I can also assure you I know as much about NTFT as the individual who has been in the position for a decade or more. I find it hard to believe I have to call someone at a national level office for something that should be spelled out in black and white somewhere.

The question I have is will I have first option for the position, or will it be offered to any NTFT/FTR within the mileage limit first or even to other PTFs and be based on seniority. Here's the way I think it works but again, no one can confirm or deny:

1 - NTFT/FTR within the POD (there are none)
2 - NTFT/FTR 50 mile letter
3 - PTF within the POD (I am the only one)
4 - PTF 50 mile letter
5 - eCareer posting
6 - public posting on USPS.com

Obviously it would never get past 3 as I would take it in this current pecking order. I just don't know if this pecking order is correct specifically 2 and 3.


in a perfect postal world you would be next. this is the post office.

if the area is under withholding (article 12) then someone else will get it.

this is why you best bet is to contact the nba.
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
PSEtoPTF  
#11 Posted : Saturday, January 11, 2020 11:19:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: beer30 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, new to the forum but have a question I hope I can get answered here. I am a PTF in an office with only one other clerk that is NTFT. The NTFT is retiring in a few months and it's not clear how I fit in the hiring order.

I have heard terms like bid cluster and pod but no one I work with really knows what those definitions are. Bottom line is we have a PM, there are no other offices under us. We are our own "pod".

Where will I fit in line for this job? Do I need to worry about any other PTF from other locations?

Thanks in advance.


With the sh*t show, sorry, I meant post office, you can’t be certain. They can post it on e-reassign, they can convert you or get rid of it and get another PTF. And by the time your union will get something done about it, it’s possible that you will retire yourself, or find a better job. So hopefully, they just going to convert you and get another PTF and leave it as it was, but you never know.
beer30  
#12 Posted : Sunday, January 12, 2020 1:26:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PSEtoPTF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: beer30 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, new to the forum but have a question I hope I can get answered here. I am a PTF in an office with only one other clerk that is NTFT. The NTFT is retiring in a few months and it's not clear how I fit in the hiring order.

I have heard terms like bid cluster and pod but no one I work with really knows what those definitions are. Bottom line is we have a PM, there are no other offices under us. We are our own "pod".

Where will I fit in line for this job? Do I need to worry about any other PTF from other locations?

Thanks in advance.


With the sh*t show, sorry, I meant post office, you can’t be certain. They can post it on e-reassign, they can convert you or get rid of it and get another PTF. And by the time your union will get something done about it, it’s possible that you will retire yourself, or find a better job. So hopefully, they just going to convert you and get another PTF and leave it as it was, but you never know.


I'm trying not to ruffle any feathers here since I am new, but sh*t show describes about everything I have experienced so far with the post office. It's simply amazing to me how individuals who have worked in the same job for 20 or 30 years have no idea the most simple of processes or policies. Everyday I watch money slip through the cracks because of the "that's not my job" attitude of the craft employees, lack of training provided by management, and the culture of as long as no one talks about it the rules really don't matter. Not only is there a lack of institutional knowledge, there appears to be no reference system in which to find out procedures for the simplest questions. Sometimes I ask questions just to hear the old timers argue.

In the end it's just a job for me so I don't stress about it. Either I will get the NTFT position or I won't.
EagleDog  
#13 Posted : Sunday, January 12, 2020 2:05:54 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: beer30 Go to Quoted Post
Everyday I watch money slip through the cracks because of the "that's not my job" attitude of the craft employees, lack of training provided by management, and the culture of as long as no one talks about it the rules really don't matter. Not only is there a lack of institutional knowledge, there appears to be no reference system in which to find out procedures for the simplest questions.


It can be extremely frustrating to deal with on a daily basis.
As hard as it is to believe, it gets worse every year.
Rules and regulations used to matter. Pride, standards and work ethic are disappearing at an alarming rate.

thanks 1 user thanked for this useful post.
beer30 on 1/12/2020(UTC)
postalvet  
#14 Posted : Sunday, January 12, 2020 2:50:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: beer30 Go to Quoted Post
[
. Not only is there a lack of institutional knowledge, there appears to be no reference system in which to find out procedures for the simplest questions. Sometimes I ask questions just to hear the old timers argue.

In the end it's just a job for me so I don't stress about it. Either I will get the NTFT position or I won't.


before the internet I spent countless hours at the union office reading the elm, union contract and every other manual the post office operates under even the law library researching title 39 and the code of federal regulations 39.
that was the reference system.
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
EagleDog  
#15 Posted : Sunday, January 12, 2020 2:58:38 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
before the internet I spent countless hours at the union office reading the elm, union contract and every other manual the post office operates under even the law library researching title 39 and the code of federal regulations 39. that was the reference system.


I was an even bigger "Postal nerd".
I actually ordered copies of the DMM, IMM, POM, ELM, ASM and many others. At my own expense.
Our local union was very small and scattershot at the time.
This was before the internet and before cell phones.

Nowadays, most employees (craft & mgt) haven't even heard of them.

postalvet  
#16 Posted : Sunday, January 12, 2020 4:57:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: EagleDog Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
before the internet I spent countless hours at the union office reading the elm, union contract and every other manual the post office operates under even the law library researching title 39 and the code of federal regulations 39. that was the reference system.


I was an even bigger "Postal nerd".
I actually ordered copies of the DMM, IMM, POM, ELM, ASM and many others. At my own expense.
Our local union was very small and scattershot at the time.
This was before the internet and before cell phones.

Nowadays, most employees (craft & mgt) haven't even heard of them.



I had a subscription to the postal bulletin, you use to be able to get it. of course it is on line now.

I had a great time enforcing headquarters rule/policy before local management knew what hit them.
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
EagleDog  
#17 Posted : Sunday, January 12, 2020 11:48:59 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
I had a subscription to the postal bulletin, you use to be able to get it. of course it is on line now.

I had a great time enforcing headquarters rule/policy before local management knew what hit them.


Amen.
I won a lot of grievances and also avoided a lot of unnecessary grievances.
Knowledge is power.

p.s. The Postal Bulletin was/is a great resource.



Randy1  
#18 Posted : Monday, January 13, 2020 6:00:25 AM(UTC)
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Postalvet is correct about withholding. If there is withholding in your area, it will be offered to ONLY those effected employees first on the 21 day priority bid preferences.

If there are none, or nobody bids it, it should then go to you as a ptf conversion in your installation. SHOULD being the caveat here, this is the USPS and strange things happen all the time. Right or wrong

FYI: If an effected withheld employee bids the position via the 21 day bid process, the PM has NO SAY in that process.

Note: Page 370 of the contract will give you the MOU for filling residual vacancies. Too much to post here.

Edited by user Monday, January 13, 2020 6:09:18 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Southernclerk  
#19 Posted : Monday, January 13, 2020 5:39:14 PM(UTC)

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Page 370 of contract (ref) You would be step 4. BUT, I've personally seen this argued by USPS management and attempt to handle differently. It may be best to contact your union rep and have a heads up on this prior to the NTFT retiring. I say this as I would lay odds management will kill the NTFT position and make another PTF position. Your union rep can prove out the position should be full time. Contract requires management to make full time positions . . . but they sadly do not.
I am one that lucked out to get a NTFT position in a level 18 office. I feel confident when I decide to retire, the position will be killed and a PTF position established in its place. Level 18 offices should have a lot more NTFT's in them, and they don't.



A. Residual duty assignments will be fi lled in the following
order:
1. Assign existing unencumbered clerks in the same
installation pursuant to Article 37.4;
2. Employees with Clerk Craft retreat rights pursuant
to Article 12.5.C.5.a(5) or Article 12.5.C.5.b(6);
371
3. Reassignment of full-time regular Clerk Craft
employees in an installation impacted by excessing,
pursuant to Article 12.5.C.5, who request a transfer
from an installation within the District or a 100 mile
geographic radius through the eReassign Clerk
Craft 21-Day Posting;
4. Conversion of part-time fl exible (PTF) Clerk Craft
employees in the same installation pursuant to
Article 37.5;
5. Reassignment of full-time regular Clerk Craft
employees in an installation impacted by excessing,
pursuant to Article 12.5.C.5, who request a
voluntary transfer from an installation beyond
the District or 100 mile geographic radius through
regular eReassign;
6. Residual vacancies that remain after Item 5 above
beer30  
#20 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2020 9:05:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Southernclerk Go to Quoted Post

A. Residual duty assignments will be filled in the following order:
1. Assign existing unencumbered clerks in the same installation pursuant to Article 37.4;
2. Employees with Clerk Craft retreat rights pursuant to Article 12.5.C.5.a(5) or Article 12.5.C.5.b(6);
371
3. Reassignment of full-time regular Clerk Craft
employees in an installation impacted by excessing,
pursuant to Article 12.5.C.5, who request a transfer
from an installation within the District or a 100 mile
geographic radius through the eReassign Clerk
Craft 21-Day Posting;
4. Conversion of part-time fl exible (PTF) Clerk Craft
employees in the same installation pursuant to
Article 37.5;


Clear as mud...lol.

1. What is an "unencumbered clerk?" According to the contract it is synonymous with unassigned regular. Is there such a thing? What would be an example of an unassigned regular?
2. Doesn't apply, no one has been involuntarily reassigned from our tiny installation.
3. This pretty much says it will go on eReassign for 21 days but only for full time employees that meet the requirements. How would this be found in eReassign? Are you only able to see posting you are able to apply for in eReassign?
4. This would be me.

Bonus question. What is excessing and withholding?

thanks again for the clarifications.

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