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dcpassion2009  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2020 2:09:43 PM(UTC)
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Please tell me if you've had this experience with USPS, I was approved for a reasonable accommodation in MD, got promoted and moved to VA, come to find out they took my reasonable accommodation from me and sent me home for the third time in nearly 5 years, second time without pay. Desperate and clueless about what I should do, I began the process of disability retirement, but I keep hearing war stories 😱😵😬😰... What's your knowledge and or experience? Was I even supposed to lose my accommodation, just because I changed states and levels? I'm still in the same craft and all the ailments remained the same
Cntpfrm  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2020 3:26:09 PM(UTC)
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Promoted to what? Your reasonable accommodation was likely for whatever job you were hired to do, if you changed crafts or moved up to management, that can likely be seen as fulfilling your original accommodation request.
Disability retirement is a huge pay cut, but it’s better than nothing if you qualify for it....meaning you’re unable to physically or mentally performs most or all of your original job you were hired for. You must contact HRSCC and ask for a disability retirement packet under option 5. (Same number as the sick call number)
You must be able to show a documented history of related medical problems to support your inability to no longer perform your job, and a doctors statement saying the same. You must have also exhausted all means of accommodation from the agency.
If approved, it’s 60% of your high three salary for the first year minus any social security disability payments( which u must apply for, though you’re likely to get denied) dropping to 40% of your high three average minus 60% any social security disability payments I believe.

Edited by user Tuesday, January 14, 2020 3:29:06 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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dcpassion2009 on 1/15/2020(UTC)
122intheshade  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2020 4:45:05 PM(UTC)
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Without knowing the general reason why you're being "forced" to retire, it's hard to say. If you want to keep on with the PO, and you CAN do other jobs within the PO, then you need to ask your installation HR about that. It's not unusual. There's a term for it, and I forget what is is.

On the other hand, most people who SHOULD know (supervisors, office manager, union steward) the procedure for this, DON'T, because they don't deal with it that often. If you can't get satisfaction from your steward or management, call your NBA.
We decide which is right; and which is an illusion. I've got blisters on me fingers!
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dcpassion2009 on 1/15/2020(UTC)
postalvet  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2020 6:54:48 PM(UTC)
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for disability retirement go here


https://forum.federalsou...lt.aspx?g=topics&f=4
answers come from experience

Was a carrier despite what

Just Cause & rodger.d say

no one else has to prove anything

rip rbg
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dcpassion2009 on 1/15/2020(UTC)
Your NBA  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2020 7:13:53 PM(UTC)
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The value of a disability retirement varies by person.

Age, earning ability, tsp present and future values, years of service, etc. all factor in.

If you are 58 with 8 years of service, at age 62 you will get 12% of your high three. So 40% may look pretty good by comparison if you cannot work or find it too daunting for whatever reason (physical, mental, postal management).

But if you are 40 with 10 or 20 years in, the calculation may be different.

Family is also a big factor. If you are relied upon by others for whatever reason(s), that is much different than if you can rely upon others. I am fortunate. I am sure several of my children would see that I was not in the street, but one in particular would work day and night to care for me. And I would work day and night to avoid that situation--but I cannot predict the future.
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dcpassion2009 on 1/15/2020(UTC)
Your NBA  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2020 7:17:53 PM(UTC)
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If it gets real bad, just be sure you never call the USPS suicide hotline. Actually, I should have known some postal manager was being clever by calling it the Suicide "Help" Line.

I got a recording of Dr. Kevorkian singing "Dust in the Wind".
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dcpassion2009 on 1/15/2020(UTC)
dcpassion2009  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:09:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cntpfrm Go to Quoted Post
Promoted to what? Your reasonable accommodation was likely for whatever job you were hired to do, if you changed crafts or moved up to management, that can likely be seen as fulfilling your original accommodation request.
Disability retirement is a huge pay cut, but it’s better than nothing if you qualify for it....meaning you’re unable to physically or mentally performs most or all of your original job you were hired for. You must contact HRSCC and ask for a disability retirement packet under option 5. (Same number as the sick call number)
You must be able to show a documented history of related medical problems to support your inability to no longer perform your job, and a doctors statement saying the same. You must have also exhausted all means of accommodation from the agency.
If approved, it’s 60% of your high three salary for the first year minus any social security disability payments( which u must apply for, though you’re likely to get denied) dropping to 40% of your high three average minus 60% any social security disability payments I believe.


No I didn't change crafts, and didn't get promoted to management either, that's why the accommodation should have remained in place. They put "promotion" on the Form 50, but it's only a T7. As for the huge financial loss, with disability retirement, can they legally force/bully me into settling for that?
dcpassion2009  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:15:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 122intheshade Go to Quoted Post
Without knowing the general reason why you're being "forced" to retire, it's hard to say. If you want to keep on with the PO, and you CAN do other jobs within the PO, then you need to ask your installation HR about that. It's not unusual. There's a term for it, and I forget what is is.

On the other hand, most people who SHOULD know (supervisors, office manager, union steward) the procedure for this, DON'T, because they don't deal with it that often. If you can't get satisfaction from your steward or management, call your NBA.


They're trying to make it seem like I can't do my job, because there's 18 duties and responsibilities, and instead of modifying it for me, they just sent me home in April of 2019 and charging me with LWOP daily.

My NBA is the one who had me set for arbitration yesterday but management canceled last minute. If you can think of the term for the thing I should request from HR please let me know, it'll be greatly appreciated.
dcpassion2009  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:17:40 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
for disability retirement go here


https://forum.federalsou...lt.aspx?g=topics&f=4


I've started the process already, but my NBA was telling me bits and pieces of the things I'll lose with it, and I wanted to get feedback from anyone who's experienced it... Thanks for the link nonetheless
dcpassion2009  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:22:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
The value of a disability retirement varies by person.

Age, earning ability, tsp present and future values, years of service, etc. all factor in.

If you are 58 with 8 years of service, at age 62 you will get 12% of your high three. So 40% may look pretty good by comparison if you cannot work or find it too daunting for whatever reason (physical, mental, postal management).

But if you are 40 with 10 or 20 years in, the calculation may be different.

Family is also a big factor. If you are relied upon by others for whatever reason(s), that is much different than if you can rely upon others. I am fortunate. I am sure several of my children would see that I was not in the street, but one in particular would work day and night to care for me. And I would work day and night to avoid that situation--but I cannot predict the future.


I'm not even close smh, that's why I wanted to hear as much as possible about it. I'm 49 with 7 years of service, but only 4 as a career employee, which I'm believing that's why the NBA said she'd rather continue our fight in arbitration, for me to get back to work, but to keep complying with OPM just in case.
dcpassion2009  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:24:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
If it gets real bad, just be sure you never call the USPS suicide hotline. Actually, I should have known some postal manager was being clever by calling it the Suicide "Help" Line.

I got a recording of Dr. Kevorkian singing "Dust in the Wind".


Do they flip it on you and try to use it against you or something?
Your NBA  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2020 3:12:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dcpassion2009 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
If it gets real bad, just be sure you never call the USPS suicide hotline. Actually, I should have known some postal manager was being clever by calling it the Suicide "Help" Line.

I got a recording of Dr. Kevorkian singing "Dust in the Wind".


Do they flip it on you and try to use it against you or something?


It was just a joke. But my experience tells me what the program would look like.

Mgmt likes to put their crimes, mismanagement, and abusive behavior off on the employees by telling them to call the EAP. The EAP cannot and will not make the managers act properly. I reverse it when I am dealing with managers and suggest they should contact the EAP if they are having problems supervising me. If any abusive manager tries to distract from their bad behavior by suggesting you call the EAP, I encourage all employees to call bullshut on them and highlight their bad behavior and need for help. I have actually done this and it really threw the manager for a loop. But in real life I don't misspell or misspeak bullshut.
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dcpassion2009 on 1/15/2020(UTC)
Your NBA  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2020 3:17:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dcpassion2009 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
The value of a disability retirement varies by person.

Age, earning ability, tsp present and future values, years of service, etc. all factor in.

If you are 58 with 8 years of service, at age 62 you will get 12% of your high three. So 40% may look pretty good by comparison if you cannot work or find it too daunting for whatever reason (physical, mental, postal management).

But if you are 40 with 10 or 20 years in, the calculation may be different.

Family is also a big factor. If you are relied upon by others for whatever reason(s), that is much different than if you can rely upon others. I am fortunate. I am sure several of my children would see that I was not in the street, but one in particular would work day and night to care for me. And I would work day and night to avoid that situation--but I cannot predict the future.


I'm not even close smh, that's why I wanted to hear as much as possible about it. I'm 49 with 7 years of service, but only 4 as a career employee, which I'm believing that's why the NBA said she'd rather continue our fight in arbitration, for me to get back to work, but to keep complying with OPM just in case.


So at age 62 you could retire with 17% of your high-three average pay. At that point you would be topped out in pay. 40% of your high-3 now may not be much, but your situation may make that 40% more appealing than it would be for some. Are you going to be able to deal with the USPS for 13 more years? If you are on disability from the USPS you can still earn money elsewhere. But you would want to explore all the rules, benefits, and pitfalls yourself carefully. So you are wise to be asking questions. Personally, I would crawl through the day on restrictions just to pizz them off. Or, better yet, crawl through my job without restrictions just to pizz them off. Do what you can and tell them to like it or lump it. (if you are given the opportunity)
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dcpassion2009 on 1/15/2020(UTC)
Roger.D  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2020 5:13:12 PM(UTC)
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Hannah, thank you for the idea of suggesting management call EAP for help.

:)
dcpassion2009  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2020 6:21:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dcpassion2009 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
If it gets real bad, just be sure you never call the USPS suicide hotline. Actually, I should have known some postal manager was being clever by calling it the Suicide "Help" Line.

I got a recording of Dr. Kevorkian singing "Dust in the Wind".


Do they flip it on you and try to use it against you or something?


It was just a joke. But my experience tells me what the program would look like.

Mgmt likes to put their crimes, mismanagement, and abusive behavior off on the employees by telling them to call the EAP. The EAP cannot and will not make the managers act properly. I reverse it when I am dealing with managers and suggest they should contact the EAP if they are having problems supervising me. If any abusive manager tries to distract from their bad behavior by suggesting you call the EAP, I encourage all employees to call bullshut on them and highlight their bad behavior and need for help. I have actually done this and it really threw the manager for a loop. But in real life I don't misspell or misspeak bullshut.


Lol 😂 lls 🤣... Thanks 👌☀️👍💪
Your NBA  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2020 6:25:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
Hannah, thank you for the idea of suggesting management call EAP for help.

:)


It is a real gem of an idea. If you like that one, I have a better one. If you are the subject of an Investigative Interview, write out long, confusing answers to every question. Never, ever answer yes or no--management sets you up and they expect a yes or a no. Then when you don't answer yes or no it makes their next question look stupid because it was contrived to piggyback on your expected yes or no. Ramble and throw in extraneous information and lots of your personal opinions. Make statements that could be taken more than one way and even seemingly contradict yourself in vague ways. Say whatever you want as long as you say "I think" or "It seems to me" or "I think a reasonable person would..." Clearly and forcefully state what you think of whatever management did and put whatever blame you wish on them. You cannot be punished for having opinions. Make it seem that whatever you supposedly did was based upon what you thought was reasonable or acceptable. Mention that others have done it, etc. I got 80 minutes of overtime out of an investigative interview and had the manager repeatedly trying to end the II. "How long are you going to be?" "I don't know. I don't know how many questions you have." Halfway through a page and a half of writing for one question I even asked her to repeat the question. Then I kept writing. Also ask for a drink--my water fountain was across the building.

If any of you get paid extra to write out answers, I will be proud. Just as I was when my union steward himself did so. Supervisor: "You remind me of someone." Steward, smiling: "_____?"

L O frickin' L!!!! --- I was overjoyed to have made them pay me to write out answers. Inspiring my steward was a two-fer. Management paid multiple times for thinking they could run over me.

A manager is just checking a box when they suggest EAP--they are trained to do it not for the employee's sake but for the manager's sake of claiming they encouraged it and were seeking a solution in doing so.

I wish I had a recording of the manager who dragged me to the office to 'ask me a question'. She then proceeded to scream at me, even being heard and causing a stir on the workroom floor. Another supervisor asked a coworker near my case what I had said. He said I hadn't said anything. I was just quietly doing my job and the supervisor showed up to work and came straight to me. It was funny because it told me (as did our "conversation") that she stews about me even at home. She literally walked in the door and came and got me. I politely and quietly listened to her ranting. However, I admit I also stoked the fire a little by what I told her.

I always say when management comes after me they are going to leave wishing they had just left me alone. I am going to enjoy and win every second that a manager thinks they are going to ruin my day or make theirs better. I have turned what they planned as a quick hit and run into 20 minutes of being paid (overtime) to tell them what I think to the amusement of my union president. Anyway, when I suggested this one supervisor call the EAP if she was having such problems supervising me, it was much more than I could have hoped for. She went from being off the rails to being speechless. When she recovered, she said, "Well, maybe I will." Then she continued her diatribe.

As a former manager, I can tell you that managers think it is a real "win" for them to suggest an employee call the EAP. They think that gets them off the hook and they know if an employee calls the EAP it will be viewed that the employee was in the wrong or could not handle their job. That is why I personally would NEVER call the EAP. If you are doing an EEO, maybe go to a psychiatrist on your own so you can use that in your EEO. But don't play into management's hands regarding EEO. And when they suggest it, bluntly call them out for suggesting you need help because the manager is an unqualified, abusive buffoon. Remember, there is a lot you can say to a manager if you don't let other employee's hear it and you couch it as your opinion. And if a manager tries to get under your skin with other employees around, quietly see if you can get under the manager's skin and get them to raise their voice. You have to beat them at their game. Or, actually, games.

Edited by user Wednesday, January 15, 2020 6:29:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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dcpassion2009 on 1/15/2020(UTC)
dcpassion2009  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2020 6:31:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dcpassion2009 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
The value of a disability retirement varies by person.

Age, earning ability, tsp present and future values, years of service, etc. all factor in.

If you are 58 with 8 years of service, at age 62 you will get 12% of your high three. So 40% may look pretty good by comparison if you cannot work or find it too daunting for whatever reason (physical, mental, postal management).

But if you are 40 with 10 or 20 years in, the calculation may be different.

Family is also a big factor. If you are relied upon by others for whatever reason(s), that is much different than if you can rely upon others. I am fortunate. I am sure several of my children would see that I was not in the street, but one in particular would work day and night to care for me. And I would work day and night to avoid that situation--but I cannot predict the future.


I'm not even close smh, that's why I wanted to hear as much as possible about it. I'm 49 with 7 years of service, but only 4 as a career employee, which I'm believing that's why the NBA said she'd rather continue our fight in arbitration, for me to get back to work, but to keep complying with OPM just in case.


So at age 62 you could retire with 17% of your high-three average pay. At that point you would be topped out in pay. 40% of your high-3 now may not be much, but your situation may make that 40% more appealing than it would be for some. Are you going to be able to deal with the USPS for 13 more years? If you are on disability from the USPS you can still earn money elsewhere. But you would want to explore all the rules, benefits, and pitfalls yourself carefully. So you are wise to be asking questions. Personally, I would crawl through the day on restrictions just to pizz them off. Or, better yet, crawl through my job without restrictions just to pizz them off. Do what you can and tell them to like it or lump it. (if you are given the opportunity)


I actually have to work for 17 more years, my Social Security statement said 67 years old, for full retirement, I really would much rather be at work, because you feel better, at least I do, getting up every day and looking pretty, getting your nails and feet done biweekly, since I've been off, I just feel hopeless and worthless. Only bathing because I know it's a part of life smh. But, to be totally honest, I've lost all sight of future goals, dreams and aspirations. I always walked a glass house, in the mountains, overlooking beautiful blue water, and family vacations... I just feel numb nowadays, they've really broken me down this time, too my lowest degree. This is the 3rd time this has happened, but the longest stint of LWOP 😭😭😭
dcpassion2009  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2020 6:43:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
Hannah, thank you for the idea of suggesting management call EAP for help.

:)


It is a real gem of an idea. If you like that one, I have a better one. If you are the subject of an Investigative Interview, write out long, confusing answers to every question. Never, ever answer yes or no--management sets you up and they expect a yes or a no. Then when you don't answer yes or no it makes their next question look stupid because it was contrived to piggyback on your expected yes or no. Ramble and throw in extraneous information and lots of your personal opinions. Make statements that could be taken more than one way and even seemingly contradict yourself in vague ways. Say whatever you want as long as you say "I think" or "It seems to me" or "I think a reasonable person would..." Clearly and forcefully state what you think of whatever management did and put whatever blame you wish on them. You cannot be punished for having opinions. Make it seem that whatever you supposedly did was based upon what you thought was reasonable or acceptable. Mention that others have done it, etc. I got 80 minutes of overtime out of an investigative interview and had the manager repeatedly trying to end the II. "How long are you going to be?" "I don't know. I don't know how many questions you have." Halfway through a page and a half of writing for one question I even asked her to repeat the question. Then I kept writing. Also ask for a drink--my water fountain was across the building.

If any of you get paid extra to write out answers, I will be proud. Just as I was when my union steward himself did so. Supervisor: "You remind me of someone." Steward, smiling: "_____?"

L O frickin' L!!!! --- I was overjoyed to have made them pay me to write out answers. Inspiring my steward was a two-fer. Management paid multiple times for thinking they could run over me.

A manager is just checking a box when they suggest EAP--they are trained to do it not for the employee's sake but for the manager's sake of claiming they encouraged it and were seeking a solution in doing so.

I wish I had a recording of the manager who dragged me to the office to 'ask me a question'. She then proceeded to scream at me, even being heard and causing a stir on the workroom floor. Another supervisor asked a coworker near my case what I had said. He said I hadn't said anything. I was just quietly doing my job and the supervisor showed up to work and came straight to me. It was funny because it told me (as did our "conversation") that she stews about me even at home. She literally walked in the door and came and got me. I politely and quietly listened to her ranting. However, I admit I also stoked the fire a little by what I told her.

I always say when management comes after me they are going to leave wishing they had just left me alone. I am going to enjoy and win every second that a manager thinks they are going to ruin my day or make theirs better. I have turned what they planned as a quick hit and run into 20 minutes of being paid (overtime) to tell them what I think to the amusement of my union president. Anyway, when I suggested this one supervisor call the EAP if she was having such problems supervising me, it was much more than I could have hoped for. She went from being off the rails to being speechless. When she recovered, she said, "Well, maybe I will." Then she continued her diatribe.

As a former manager, I can tell you that managers think it is a real "win" for them to suggest an employee call the EAP. They think that gets them off the hook and they know if an employee calls the EAP it will be viewed that the employee was in the wrong or could not handle their job. That is why I personally would NEVER call the EAP. If you are doing an EEO, maybe go to a psychiatrist on your own so you can use that in your EEO. But don't play into management's hands regarding EEO. And when they suggest it, bluntly call them out for suggesting you need help because the manager is an unqualified, abusive buffoon. Remember, there is a lot you can say to a manager if you don't let other employee's hear it and you couch it as your opinion. And if a manager tries to get under your skin with other employees around, quietly see if you can get under the manager's skin and get them to raise their voice. You have to beat them at their game. Or, actually, games.


Lol 😂 lls 🤣... Very wise, sounds like a plan, once I get back finally... Cause I use to make the horrible mistake of allowing them to send me from 0 to 100 daily. Thank God I don't have any write ups, but it was always them antagonizing me first though anyways.
Cutie LaSalle  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2020 8:13:12 PM(UTC)

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I cannot believe this but I am going to say something POSITIVE about EAP. This process is run by non-postal employees. Whether management points you in that direction or not. I have used EAP many times. They keep records which can be important when you need medical records or other information for a case. These records are kept for only 3 years (I think), but they can prove useful if you file a disability/other claim. Also, if you are still on the postal rolls, you can use them to help find a psychologist/therapist/psychiatrist. No cost out of pocket! Also, you are covered by HIPPA laws that protect these records....they need your authorization in order to access them. JUST SAYING!!

NOTE: I called them after the steering went out in my LLV. I was HORRIFIED to get back in the truck!

Edited by user Wednesday, January 15, 2020 8:17:23 PM(UTC)  | Reason: wrong word

TheRealOrange  
#20 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2020 3:55:53 AM(UTC)
TheRealOrange

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Originally Posted by: dcpassion2009 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
The value of a disability retirement varies by person.

Age, earning ability, tsp present and future values, years of service, etc. all factor in.

If you are 58 with 8 years of service, at age 62 you will get 12% of your high three. So 40% may look pretty good by comparison if you cannot work or find it too daunting for whatever reason (physical, mental, postal management).

But if you are 40 with 10 or 20 years in, the calculation may be different.

Family is also a big factor. If you are relied upon by others for whatever reason(s), that is much different than if you can rely upon others. I am fortunate. I am sure several of my children would see that I was not in the street, but one in particular would work day and night to care for me. And I would work day and night to avoid that situation--but I cannot predict the future.
I'm not even close smh, that's why I wanted to hear as much as possible about it. I'm 49 with 7 years of service, but only 4 as a career employee, which I'm believing that's why the NBA said she'd rather continue our fight in arbitration, for me to get back to work, but to keep complying with OPM just in case.

If you want to keep working, then you should continue to pursue a reasonable accommodation in your current job. You will need to be able to show that with your functional limitations, you could still successfully perform all of the essential functions of the job with the requested accommodation. If you cannot perform all of the essential functions of the job with an accommodation, then you could request a reassignment to another available job for which you qualify and that you could perform with or without an accommodation. That is generally considered to be an accommodation of last resort and is only available if it is determined that you cannot perform in your current position even with an accommodation.

As far as a disability retirement, the 60% (first 12 months) and 40% (after the first 12 months) amounts apply only until you reach age 62. When you reach age 62, your annuity will be recomputed using an amount that essentially represents the annuity you would have received if you had continued working until the day before your 62nd birthday and then retired under FERS. Since you are now 49 with 7 years of service, you would receive credit for the 13 years on disability retirement until reaching age 62. That would result in an annuity of 20% of your high-3, which would be increased by all FERS cost-of-living increases paid during the time you received a disability annuity. Of course, that assumes that all 7 years are covered under FERS. If only 4 years are covered, then the total would be 17%. In either case, it is doubtful that the final annuity amount would be nearly as much as the 40% amount that was being received from the disability annuity.
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