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VAer  
#1 Posted : Monday, January 27, 2020 6:29:40 AM(UTC)
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Some positions are announced under both MP and DE, in general, MP is open to Federal Employee/Veterans, etc; while DE is open to The public.

As a current federal employee and veteran, is it necessary to apply for both positions (in order to increase the chance of being hired)? Applying for both positions is a little more time consumption, it also causes human resource to process more paperwork. So is it really necessary?

Basically, what are the exact differences between MP and DE? If a veteran (also current federal employee) applies for DE position, is there a better chance than applying under MP position? MP position does not consider veteran preference.

Thanks.
frankgonzalez  
#2 Posted : Monday, January 27, 2020 8:37:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: VAer Go to Quoted Post
Some positions are announced under both MP and DE, in general, MP is open to Federal Employee/Veterans, etc; while DE is open to The public.

As a current federal employee and veteran, is it necessary to apply for both positions (in order to increase the chance of being hired)? Applying for both positions is a little more time consumption, it also causes human resource to process more paperwork. So is it really necessary?

Basically, what are the exact differences between MP and DE? If a veteran (also current federal employee) applies for DE position, is there a better chance than applying under MP position? MP position does not consider veteran preference.

Thanks.
Sometimes we look at one list, and only see 1 or 2 that we like the look of, so go to the other list. SO...if you were one of the 1 or 2 we liked but failed to apply to the other...you could lose out.

Bottom line: Apply to any and every hiring authority you qualify for. Saving HR 5 minutes (if that) of work isn't worth being "nice" if it costs you an opportunity.

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
VAer  
#3 Posted : Monday, January 27, 2020 10:28:53 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VAer Go to Quoted Post
Some positions are announced under both MP and DE, in general, MP is open to Federal Employee/Veterans, etc; while DE is open to The public.

As a current federal employee and veteran, is it necessary to apply for both positions (in order to increase the chance of being hired)? Applying for both positions is a little more time consumption, it also causes human resource to process more paperwork. So is it really necessary?

Basically, what are the exact differences between MP and DE? If a veteran (also current federal employee) applies for DE position, is there a better chance than applying under MP position? MP position does not consider veteran preference.

Thanks.
Sometimes we look at one list, and only see 1 or 2 that we like the look of, so go to the other list. SO...if you were one of the 1 or 2 we liked but failed to apply to the other...you could lose out.

Bottom line: Apply to any and every hiring authority you qualify for. Saving HR 5 minutes (if that) of work isn't worth being "nice" if it costs you an opportunity.



Thanks for reply. Are you from HR? Is it the way HR processes paperwork or you heard it from someone else? So basically, when a position is advertised under both MP and DE, and HR can abandoned one of them? I feel that it is not fair to those who apply under only one hiring authority (well-qualified, but the list is abandoned by HR).

frankgonzalez  
#4 Posted : Monday, January 27, 2020 12:22:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: VAer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VAer Go to Quoted Post
Some positions are announced under both MP and DE, in general, MP is open to Federal Employee/Veterans, etc; while DE is open to The public.

As a current federal employee and veteran, is it necessary to apply for both positions (in order to increase the chance of being hired)? Applying for both positions is a little more time consumption, it also causes human resource to process more paperwork. So is it really necessary?

Basically, what are the exact differences between MP and DE? If a veteran (also current federal employee) applies for DE position, is there a better chance than applying under MP position? MP position does not consider veteran preference.

Thanks.
Sometimes we look at one list, and only see 1 or 2 that we like the look of, so go to the other list. SO...if you were one of the 1 or 2 we liked but failed to apply to the other...you could lose out.

Bottom line: Apply to any and every hiring authority you qualify for. Saving HR 5 minutes (if that) of work isn't worth being "nice" if it costs you an opportunity.



Thanks for reply. Are you from HR? Is it the way HR processes paperwork or you heard it from someone else? So basically, when a position is advertised under both MP and DE, and HR can abandoned one of them? I feel that it is not fair to those who apply under only one hiring authority (well-qualified, but the list is abandoned by HR).

I work in EEO, and as a result, work a lot with HR on issues.

HR doesn't abandon a certificate of eligibles, the hiring official makes the call which one to use. As a hiring official I look at both. Sometimes when there is a lack of people on one, I will look at the other (typically, I'll look at MP first, and then DE AFTER both certs have been scrubbed by SMEs to see who we should interview. If the MP yields enough quality people to interview, then no need to look at the DE.

And HR has no clue on the details we as SMEs will be looking at. Some people are great a writing resumes that will get them through HR but a SME will cut them in a second as it doesn't lie, but avoids actually saying they did something. (for example, I had one resume for an EEO manager position my office was hiring for. I was not going to interview the person, but my boss told me to as my boss had limited experience with military EO offices, whereas I am a retired AF EO Adviser and worked with Army EO Offices in the past . The resume had a lot of "managed EO program" and "Supervised EO advisers" and as this person was an Army officer, I knew they didn't do civilian EEO cases, and the Army Military EO advisers didn't either. He was appointed to the Director role to give him a command staff slot. In his interview he had no clue about timelines, the statutes, etc someone in that position would need to be very knowledgeable of. I will give him credit, he realized the knowledge needs were not something he had and he withdrew from consideration during the interview.)

If they (the selecting official) decide not to use one of the certs, and you didn't apply to both...then you can be out of luck if you aren't on the one they decide to use..

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
thanks 1 user thanked frankgonzalez for this useful post.
HR Bubba on 3/12/2020(UTC)
VAer  
#5 Posted : Monday, January 27, 2020 12:35:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post


......, the hiring official makes the call which one to use. As a hiring official I look at both.



I don't follow on this sentence. My understanding is: HR sends certificate list to hiring official, then hiring official conducts interview process.

If HR only refers one certificate list (e.g. HR only sends MP certificate list) to hiring official, how can official look at both? If someone applies for the position under DE announcement only, then his resume is abandoned by HR(since DE list is not referred).

frankgonzalez  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 4:05:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: VAer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post


......, the hiring official makes the call which one to use. As a hiring official I look at both.



I don't follow on this sentence. My understanding is: HR sends certificate list to hiring official, then hiring official conducts interview process.

If HR only refers one certificate list (e.g. HR only sends MP certificate list) to hiring official, how can official look at both? If someone applies for the position under DE announcement only, then his resume is abandoned by HR(since DE list is not referred).

If the job is announced under both MP and DE then both certs are sent over. HR doesn't make the decision which one to send over or which one is used, the selecting official does. You can have multiple certs for a single position.

For example, I could have HR announce a position for 9 target 12, and I want to be able to hire at any of the grades (ie GS9, 11 or 12) based on what I get from applicants. I want it announced MP and DE. I would get 6 certs from HR. 1 per grade per MP and DE. I then decide which one I use.

In practical terms, we look at every resume...or at least have a panel do so..to rack and stack at each grade, then decide which people to interview from. I may not get a great group of people who qualify for the 12 on either cert as that is the journeyman level and so they should be able to do the job with no further training, only an orientation on local procedures. Whereas a GS9 needs training. They should know the basics, but I know I will need to provide more hands-on training for a while. I have had this come up quite a few times over the years. In one case, I had someone great for a GS12 position (actually, had 4 good candidates in the interview, and one great who was hired) so we didn't use the GS9 or 11 certs. In another case, the resumes on the GS12 certs sucked, the ones on the GS11 cert were so-so, and the GS9 cert had some diamonds in the rough. We hired at the GS9, and got a great employee who was eager to learn and did a great job...and they were able to get promoted twice on time as they were doing great.

You never know what you are going to get, hence the request for both MP and DE announcements.

Edited by user Tuesday, January 28, 2020 4:15:01 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
thanks 1 user thanked frankgonzalez for this useful post.
HR Bubba on 3/12/2020(UTC)
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