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William Walter Watkins  
#701 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2020 10:31:42 AM(UTC)
William Walter Watkins

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I had a nice chat with my recruiter and was able to get scheduled for my next poly. I asked a few questions that may be useful for those here.

1. What are the chances I go thru this all and the job is not available?
- They're answer was for my category (Cyber Security) there's a deep shortage, so I am pretty much guaranteed a slot once I'm done if I pass. There's quite a few job roles that fall under that category so at least that's one less thing to worry about.

2. How long is Adjudication?
- It's currently running 2 or 3 months behind passing all the tests.

3. Should I withdraw my application, what happens. Is there a penalty? So life is short and I get job offers often, I have often considered ending this just to have one less thing to worry about.
- They stated that people do drop out for that reason, you won't get black listed but you will have start all over if you ever reapply.

I also would like to say, thank you for all the support members have given me here. I truly appreciate it.
Alkaline19200  
#702 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2020 8:33:21 PM(UTC)
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has anyone been told that he/she didnt fail or pass the poly ? after poly that i was told. i am not sure what is next now :(
iconism  
#703 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2020 7:26:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Alkaline19200 Go to Quoted Post
has anyone been told that he/she didnt fail or pass the poly ? after poly that i was told. i am not sure what is next now :(


I had a recent poly (my second). They only ran one chart. They said I was unsuccessful but I wasn't immediately offered a new slot like I was after I failed the first one. We also discussed adjudication before I left the poly room, so I don't know what my next step is either.
buckaneers  
#704 Posted : Sunday, February 2, 2020 12:00:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: George Maschke Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: buckaneers Go to Quoted Post
One doesn't really pass or fail a poly, it's a tool that measures physiological responses to questions and supplements personnel security and investigations.


Actually, one does really pass or fail a polygraph. If you fail, you get blackballed. In polygraph screening, the failing score is called "SR" for "significant reaction." In criminal investigations, it's called "DI" for "deception indicated." But whatever buzzword the federal polygraph community chooses to attach to it, it's still tantamount to "failing."


My understanding is that such a reading is a basis for follow-on actions (i.e. interrogations, futher inquiries, etc.) but won't lead to "failure" in of itself, at least if you're already employed there. There's a reason why it's banned from use in court and the private sector - it can't read minds. The instrument's strength comes from the fact that people believe it to be a magical lie detector when it's really more useful to screen out suspect newcomers and elicit voluntary confessions. Check out James Olson's book, "To Catch a Spy." It goes more into detail about the fallacies of "passing/failing" a polygraph.
someoldguy  
#705 Posted : Sunday, February 2, 2020 3:33:48 PM(UTC)
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Guy told me an interesting story... he was already cleared and working as a contractor and had to take a poly for a periodic update kind of thing. Anyway, he went, took the poly, everything seemed to be fine and he went back to work, happy that the whole thing was behind him.

But a year or so later, they put him in for some special access requiring a recent poly. He thought he was good until security told him that in fact he did not "pass" the latest poly.
DISCLAIMER: You read it on an open internet forum :)
George Maschke  
#706 Posted : Thursday, February 6, 2020 1:17:31 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckaneers Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: George Maschke Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: buckaneers Go to Quoted Post
One doesn't really pass or fail a poly, it's a tool that measures physiological responses to questions and supplements personnel security and investigations.


Actually, one does really pass or fail a polygraph. If you fail, you get blackballed. In polygraph screening, the failing score is called "SR" for "significant reaction." In criminal investigations, it's called "DI" for "deception indicated." But whatever buzzword the federal polygraph community chooses to attach to it, it's still tantamount to "failing."


My understanding is that such a reading is a basis for follow-on actions (i.e. interrogations, futher inquiries, etc.) but won't lead to "failure" in of itself, at least if you're already employed there. There's a reason why it's banned from use in court and the private sector - it can't read minds. The instrument's strength comes from the fact that people believe it to be a magical lie detector when it's really more useful to screen out suspect newcomers and elicit voluntary confessions. Check out James Olson's book, "To Catch a Spy." It goes more into detail about the fallacies of "passing/failing" a polygraph.


Where in To Catch a Spy does Olson discuss any "fallacies" of passing or failing a polygraph? I can't find it. On the contrary, I note that he makes specific mention of various individuals "passing" or "failing" polygraphs:

  • Jonathan Pollard was hired by US Navy intelligence and given a top-secret security clearance despite a failed CIA polygraph...
  • Is it possible to beat the polygraph? Yes, of course. Aldrich Ames "passed" a reinvestigation polygraph even though he had been working for the Russian KGB and SVR for several years....
  • Larry Wu-Tai Chin likewise passed CIA polygraphs during his thirty-plus-year espionage career...
  • Shriver failed the CIA polygraph...
  • We know that Montes was trained in counterpolygraph measures by her Cuban handlers, and she passed a DIA reinvestigation polygraph in 1994.
  • Somehow Eddie [Howard] passed the polygraph.
  • Signal/WhatsApp/Snapchat/Telegram/iMessage: +1-202-810-2105
    NoStringsAttached  
    #707 Posted : Thursday, February 6, 2020 5:03:16 AM(UTC)
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    Originally Posted by: George Maschke Go to Quoted Post



  • Nobody cares what you say George, we'd appreciate it if you were not on the NSA section of the forums. Regardless if what you say is true or false, it does not help anyone with their process. On top of that, I would go as far as saying it only hurts people's chance of getting through if they were to read all the things you keep saying. Plus, this is the 2019 thread anyway... Which should be dead to begin with.

    Again, please just get off the NSA section and go bother people elsewhere
    thanks 2 users thanked NoStringsAttached for this useful post.
    GobblyGoops on 2/6/2020(UTC), BatDog123 on 2/6/2020(UTC)
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