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MiGaruda  
#1 Posted : Monday, September 21, 2020 6:03:47 PM(UTC)
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Hello all!

I'm at the point of my career where I am ready to jump from GS-12 to GS-13, but unfortunately, there is very little to none upward mobility at my current location with current agency. My performance appraisal is pretty good which is 4 out of 5. So far, I had applied for a few GS-13 JOAs which required to provide the most recent performance appraisal. I understand the purpose of asking for performance appraisal is to ensure that I'm fully successful overall. Does it serve the dual purposes? For example, if there are 2 candidates with similar experience and skillets, does the candidate with the better appraisal get hired? I just curious how the employers factor into making a hiring decision.


Thanks all!
frankgonzalez  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2020 3:58:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MiGaruda Go to Quoted Post
Hello all!

I'm at the point of my career where I am ready to jump from GS-12 to GS-13, but unfortunately, there is very little to none upward mobility at my current location with current agency. My performance appraisal is pretty good which is 4 out of 5. So far, I had applied for a few GS-13 JOAs which required to provide the most recent performance appraisal. I understand the purpose of asking for performance appraisal is to ensure that I'm fully successful overall. Does it serve the dual purposes? For example, if there are 2 candidates with similar experience and skillets, does the candidate with the better appraisal get hired? I just curious how the employers factor into making a hiring decision.


Thanks all!
Having been on a few selection panels (and as the selecting official), I have never seen the appraisals. And to be honest, unless you were anything but successful (Meets Expectations or better), I don't care what it was. Your previous supervisor could be a hard rater or you were in a wrong fit position-wise or a myriad of other reasons for less than the top rating (and this doesn't even factor in that some places simply use "Pass/fail" for ratings). Your resume and the interview are all that are considered..and if you are deemed the best person, then the reference checks.



You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
nembamike  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2020 4:49:07 AM(UTC)

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Concur with previous post. My opinion is performance appraisals are a joke and have little to no impact on hiring. Good luck in your search.
MiGaruda  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2020 5:21:12 PM(UTC)
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Thanks all for your answers. Just to clarify, the submitted appraisal never make it to the panel interviewers or selecting officials? OR selecting officials have it but choose not to review it???
frankgonzalez  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, September 23, 2020 3:08:42 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MiGaruda Go to Quoted Post
Thanks all for your answers. Just to clarify, the submitted appraisal never make it to the panel interviewers or selecting officials? OR selecting officials have it but choose not to review it???
Never got it in either case.

I will caveat my original response. If the opening is in the same section that the the top contenders are also in (an internal promotion open only to internal candidates who belong to that agency or even just that location), then the appraisals may be looked at if it is close.

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
djp  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, September 23, 2020 12:52:41 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: MiGaruda Go to Quoted Post
Thanks all for your answers. Just to clarify, the submitted appraisal never make it to the panel interviewers or selecting officials? OR selecting officials have it but choose not to review it???


It’s something that isn’t looked at until say you are a finalist for selecting.

Most it’s just meet expectations or higher and it’s the judgement of the hiring manager. If they really like you they don’t care.

A lot of times PAs are tied to how much you like a person vs do they do the job.

The biggest brown nosed gets the 5 of 5 rating.

Filmbeloh2o  
#7 Posted : Thursday, September 24, 2020 4:16:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: djp Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MiGaruda Go to Quoted Post
Thanks all for your answers. Just to clarify, the submitted appraisal never make it to the panel interviewers or selecting officials? OR selecting officials have it but choose not to review it???


It’s something that isn’t looked at until say you are a finalist for selecting.

Most it’s just meet expectations or higher and it’s the judgement of the hiring manager. If they really like you they don’t care.

A lot of times PAs are tied to how much you like a person vs do they do the job.

The biggest brown nosed gets the 5 of 5 rating.



I attach my last two PAs to my cover letter on every packet I submit (unless it's not allowed - like NASA for instance). I'll take exception to two things you wrote: #1, I'm in the middle of on-boarding for a promotion that I just got offered on Monday. I was told that because I was able to reference certain bullet points in my appraisal during my interview, that it helped set me apart from other candidates. So while your mileage may vary, I think adding my appraisal helped me just jump from a 12 Step 5 to a 13 Step 3 supervisory position. If they read my cover letter at the outset, then they at least took a glance at my PA and saw what I did for the past year.

#2: In my second to last PA I got a 4 on one of my elements, otherwise it was all 5. So for the next year I did some self study on the area where I got the 4, and in addition to getting all 5s this last one, I was also nominated for Civ of the Quarter, got a 40 hour time off award, and almost a $2k bonus. I'm not a brown noser in the slightest and to be honest, butt heads with my supervisor quite a bit. She saw fit to give me all 5s because I busted my behind and I'm very, very good at my job. If you're in a position where you think a 5 is justified and you don't get it, you should be asking your supervisor to change it. Or maybe look at the overall scheme of things and figure out why you don't deserve all 5s, instead of thinking people who get them kiss a** to get where they are.

FrankJr  
#8 Posted : Thursday, September 24, 2020 7:03:55 AM(UTC)
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More and more the performance appraisal is required to be attached for job applications for internal federal government hiring. The ratings may or may not be a function of performance; but often the ratings are a function of favoritism. The content on the other hand are the opportunity for the employee to present a clearer picture. In the current organization the ratings were inflated for years without resolution resulting in some 60% with outstanding year after year (an organization of 600 people). The resolution was to assign "meets" to new employees year after year. Focus on the content of the review not the rating. For reference, the current manager simply copies / pasted the content for all 20 employees year after year and assigned the ratings based on favoritism. The resolution to the "grievance" was the opportunity to add content to the review.

Edited by user Friday, September 25, 2020 8:43:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

frankgonzalez  
#9 Posted : Thursday, September 24, 2020 10:52:27 AM(UTC)
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I have never cared about the appraisal rating as long as it is meets or better. IF (and this is a big IF), it comes down to needing a tiebreaker, then the content of the appraisal may be a factor. Ie What you did or what impact it had, etc. Good stuff may put you over.
You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
MiGaruda  
#10 Posted : Thursday, September 24, 2020 5:36:55 PM(UTC)
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I disagree with the notion that PA makes little to no impact to the hiring decision. I believe the impact increases as higher the grade goes. Maybe little to no impact to GS-11 or below. I mean.. the purpose of the PA is to separate the bad or average from the good. Almost everything said during the interview and/or written on the resume are not verifiable facts but performance appraisal IS.

Applying the assumption of higher PA rating normally means bigger the butt kisser could be true in some cases but it's hard to justify handing out an outstanding without a clear evidence in the DOD appraisal system. It's almost impossible to get an outstanding in my agency unless you saved 50% of the cost or something similar (above and beyond).
djp  
#11 Posted : Thursday, September 24, 2020 8:17:38 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Filmbeloh2o Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: djp Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MiGaruda Go to Quoted Post
Thanks all for your answers. Just to clarify, the submitted appraisal never make it to the panel interviewers or selecting officials? OR selecting officials have it but choose not to review it???


It’s something that isn’t looked at until say you are a finalist for selecting.

Most it’s just meet expectations or higher and it’s the judgement of the hiring manager. If they really like you they don’t care.

A lot of times PAs are tied to how much you like a person vs do they do the job.

The biggest brown nosed gets the 5 of 5 rating.



I attach my last two PAs to my cover letter on every packet I submit (unless it's not allowed - like NASA for instance). I'll take exception to two things you wrote: #1, I'm in the middle of on-boarding for a promotion that I just got offered on Monday. I was told that because I was able to reference certain bullet points in my appraisal during my interview, that it helped set me apart from other candidates. So while your mileage may vary, I think adding my appraisal helped me just jump from a 12 Step 5 to a 13 Step 3 supervisory position. If they read my cover letter at the outset, then they at least took a glance at my PA and saw what I did for the past year.

#2: In my second to last PA I got a 4 on one of my elements, otherwise it was all 5. So for the next year I did some self study on the area where I got the 4, and in addition to getting all 5s this last one, I was also nominated for Civ of the Quarter, got a 40 hour time off award, and almost a $2k bonus. I'm not a brown noser in the slightest and to be honest, butt heads with my supervisor quite a bit. She saw fit to give me all 5s because I busted my behind and I'm very, very good at my job. If you're in a position where you think a 5 is justified and you don't get it, you should be asking your supervisor to change it. Or maybe look at the overall scheme of things and figure out why you don't deserve all 5s, instead of thinking people who get them kiss a** to get where they are.



It all depends on where you work.

Some places give everyone 5s, others might only give one employee a 5.

Some agencies it’s nearly impossible to get QSIs or any serious bonus to someone at high GS levels.

If you work at the HQs shop itsmuch harder than say you worked at a field site. At field sites there is a lot of “nepotism” where friends get hired, promoted, bonuses.



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