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postbean  
#1 Posted : Monday, February 04, 2008 6:47:43 AM(UTC)
postbean

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I am about midway through my 90-day probation as a TE, and it has been suggested to me that I resign. My supervisors do not feel I am delivering the mail quickly enough, and they say I will be fired and resigning is a better option for me. If I do resign, they say I can apply at another post office after one year has passed. I am looking for the pros and cons of resigning vs being fired. I wish I could stay in this position, but my improvement has been disappointing to both my supervisors and myself. I wonder if I would fare better at at different post office in the future. Thanks for any input.
Honest Response  
#2 Posted : Monday, February 04, 2008 7:56:46 AM(UTC)
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Resign and reapply elsewhere. You do not have to wait 1 year. You just need to find another location willing to gamble on you. The first thing they will do is speak to your former Supv/PM and determine if you are even worth it. Its better if you resign because it gives you the chance to apply elsewhere without having the fired stigma that will attach. And thank the person who is allowing you to do it. They could just fire you and you have no recourse rights.


HTH Wink
Jacquelon  
#3 Posted : Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:51:55 AM(UTC)
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Hi All,
I'm having a similiar situatuon.I haven't been own my route on my own yet and the post master wants to fire me if I don't pick up my speed.I have increased my speed since the other day.But is it enough to save me from being terminated.I'm on day four of my training after rural academy.On day two I over heard the PM telling my trainer that if I didn't learn my route in three days he would fire me and I askes my trainer did I hear him correctly. He was like yeh! And I was Like?????I haven't done a whole route on my on yet.So, why threatin me like that! I know I can do the job once I learn the route,but can he let me go before I learn everything. How long do training last? Can anyone give me some advice. Confused
gmc5201  
#4 Posted : Thursday, February 07, 2008 10:12:57 AM(UTC)
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I thought new rca's were supposed to get an additional 24 hours of "on the job" training at their branch after completing carrier academy. How can you get fired if you haven't even had a chance to learn the job.
superdave  
#5 Posted : Friday, February 08, 2008 3:09:18 AM(UTC)
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When told you are not delivering mail quick enough, ask them as compared to who, so you'll know who to cite in your EEO complaint for comparing you to someone else. Read section 584 from the link to handbook el-312 for management obligations to new employees and they are to assist you as much as possible and not simply make stupid comments that you are not fast enough. This is done in the best interests of the service and not in the best interest of management just because they think so.

"The supervisor consistently attempts by
guidance, counsel, and training to assist the new employee to correct any deficiencies in either conduct or performance."

http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/hand/el312.pdf
postalwiz  
#6 Posted : Friday, February 08, 2008 4:31:56 AM(UTC)
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O.K. I am going to give you a different view
on this one. Who is training you? Another
Rural Carrier or is someone from the Rural
Carrier Academy training you? If it is another
Rural Carrier call your trainer at the Rural
Carrier Academy and tell him or her what you
were told and if they could provide you with any
help. Keep it documented. The probation period for rural carriers a little different tha other
crafts is either 90 actual worked days or 6 months whatever comes first and I will agree
with SuperDave it is rather stupid remark from
the supervisor, it takes a while to learn your
case and it takes a while to learn your route and
if I was you I would with my sweetest face on
earth go to the PM and ask him for guidance
and help in getting better at casing. While manuals and books have all sorts of jumble in it;
common sense should prevail. If you resign
and you apply for unemployment it may be
denied or penalized so be careful about resigning. Try the Rural Carrier Academy Trainer; and while you do not have grievance
rights, contact your State Steward for input
and guidance. The Supervisor may be just trying
to scare you because at times there are stupid
people who seem to think that scaring employees
is going to make them faster or better, all they
are doing is using intimidation that employees
never forget.
superdave  
#7 Posted : Friday, February 08, 2008 8:09:49 PM(UTC)
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Hey Postalwiz, believe it or not the city carrier contract has common sense written right into it, just as many of these other handbooks and manuals do, and just requires some management types to have simple reading skills, say perhaps better than a 5th grader. The only interpretation required for the below common sense "jumble" would be "reasonable period". Perhaps the rural contract contains similar language? This employee is no doubt being intimidated.

41.3.F. A newly appointed carrier or a carrier permanently assigned to a route with which the carrier is not familiar will be allowed a reasonable period to become familiar with the route and to become proficient.

http://nalc.org/depart/cau/pdf/jcam/2005JCAM.pdf
postalwiz  
#8 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2008 1:11:37 AM(UTC)
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SuperDave, contracts and manuals are open
to interpretation and while yes the employee
is to have guidance, support, etc. while they
are in their Probationary Period, haven't you been in the PO long enough to know that it does
not always happen and while I will not debate
you on what grounds he has to file an EEO over
supervisor's stupid comment, his best bet
is to make sure he calls the Trainer at the
Rural Academy; his "State Steward" and try the
sweet approach before he gets fired. Sitting
at home without a pay check while waiting for
all these processes to go thru easier said than
done and unless you have someone at the District
asking questions as to a probationary period
employee and specially a Rural Carrier who has
not been there long enough to give him a fair
evaluation, during probation and that is why is
called probation they can let you go for failing
to improve and as he has a trainer with him probably the regular carrier assigned to the route, they are giving him assistance and guidance, who best than another carrier. I do not care what the manuals or contracts say, he has no rights to the grievance process as he is on probation and the manuals and there are many of them can be interpreted whatever way you want and I would like to know what "purview" he is going to use for his EEO. Try the sweet
stuff first and he does need to go to his PM
and ask for guidance and help in his best behavior, calm voice! Better staying employed
than hitting the Unemployment line! It cannot
be helped if there are a---- in both Management
and Craft, in my 30 years of service was privileged to see both sides, the good, the bad
and the ugly and the just unbelievable and believe me it was not all in Management side,
carriers having s-- in someone's lawn in
Uniform; someone arrested in the premises for
prostitution ring; stealing; someone 6 months
from retirement stealing Xmas decorations not
worth anything; sexual harassment, sexual assault, threatening to write a book, now have to
go and play with my cats, they do not demand anything other than food, water, and their litter
box to be cleaned and my arm has just gone south
so I have to stop writing. This employee is
going to have to make up his mind, what he wants
to do, I always say, try being sweet first, that
does not work, try something else.
NEVERTHOUGHTIDBEAMAILMAN  
#9 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2008 10:05:45 PM(UTC)
NEVERTHOUGHTIDBEAMAILMAN

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I must agree with postalwiz. When you are in your probationary period you can be fired for anything. Yeah, if it's unfair, you can try to fight it, but it's a steep uphill battle. The "sweet" approach is the best method to try first.

There are members of craft that seem to become the type of supervisor that they, themselves, despised. I have found that this usually comes from a somewhat inflated ego. Sometimes you have to stroke that ego just a little bit. This applies to whoever is pressuring you to be better than you are able to be, yet.

"Do you have any suggestions of how I can improve my speed while maintaining my accuracy?"

"How did the previous subs go about picking up the pace and how did you help them."

"I had a situation and wanted your opinion."

"I tried this when this happened and I wondered if you had a suggestion of how I could have better handled it."

"Thank you for caring about how I am progressing. I would appreciate any input."

Would you want to fire a person that looks up to you?

You can spend your entire career pitting yourself against the few a******s or you can deal with them, then side-step them and go on with your postal life.

I've been with the Postal Service for over 19 years and I've had over 20 "bosses". Get advice from your union rep and the go-to carrier that's in every office. If you want the job, get through the probationary period any way you can and realize that the person in your face probably won't be there next year.
Jacquelon  
#10 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2008 10:49:30 PM(UTC)
Jacquelon

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Thanks for the advice!
Yesterday, I had to do the route for the first time myself.I left the PO feeling good about my day, because I did pretty good the day before by doing most of my route alone. First of all,I know my route now,but I'm not fimiliar with the number on each box. Anyway,I ended up behind. Therfore, my supervisor had to send someone out to help me deliver the remainder of my route I was very relieved.It just seemed to me the more I tried to pick up my speed, the futher I got behind,the more stressed I became and the more I thought of getting fired.Yesterday, was one of the most stressful days of my life! Do think by me needing help on my route; do you think that will make it seem like I'm not improving to my PM? Also,I'm getting somewhat better with my casing; but,that DPS kind of screw me up cause I work better just pulling of one bundle instead of two bundles. ConfusedAny more advice.
Inquire  
#11 Posted : Sunday, February 10, 2008 1:47:15 AM(UTC)
Inquire

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So before you are given your full opportunity to learn thejob the supervisor already wants to get rid of you. That was a very unethical thing for s/he to do. This is like a "premeditated removal" If it was me I would not quit until around day 87 or so. Of course they may be doing you a favor. Wink


quote:
Originally posted by postbean:
I am about midway through my 90-day probation as a TE, and it has been suggested to me that I resign. My supervisors do not feel I am delivering the mail quickly enough, and they say I will be fired and resigning is a better option for me. If I do resign, they say I can apply at another post office after one year has passed. I am looking for the pros and cons of resigning vs being fired. I wish I could stay in this position, but my improvement has been disappointing to both my supervisors and myself. I wonder if I would fare better at at different post office in the future. Thanks for any input.
"Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil."
Inquire  
#12 Posted : Sunday, February 10, 2008 1:50:05 AM(UTC)
Inquire

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I also believe that if they terminate you for inability to perform before you reach day 90, you may have something to grieve. hummmmmmmmmmm
sounds like a union issue to me. I don't know if a probationer can join the union but if they can't maybe someone can give you some tips


quote:
Originally posted by postbean:
I am about midway through my 90-day probation as a TE, and it has been suggested to me that I resign. My supervisors do not feel I am delivering the mail quickly enough, and they say I will be fired and resigning is a better option for me. If I do resign, they say I can apply at another post office after one year has passed. I am looking for the pros and cons of resigning vs being fired. I wish I could stay in this position, but my improvement has been disappointing to both my supervisors and myself. I wonder if I would fare better at at different post office in the future. Thanks for any input.
"Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil."
NEVERTHOUGHTIDBEAMAILMAN  
#13 Posted : Sunday, February 10, 2008 8:40:55 AM(UTC)
NEVERTHOUGHTIDBEAMAILMAN

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There is a reason that the rules regarding RCA pay during the first 5 pay periods is different in the new contract. It is acknowledged that it takes a carrier longer to deliver mail when he/she is just learning to be a carrier. Even seasoned veteran RCAs need extra time when learning a new route or serving one that they have not been on in over a year.

As long as you improve each time you work, you should be okay.

RCAs can join the union and I would recommend that they do.
postbean  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, February 12, 2008 12:13:34 AM(UTC)
postbean

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So I resigned my TE position, and my supervisor suggested that I try to get in as a TE at another post office. Where I started out was a very busy office and the supervisor said that he did not agree with anyone being trained there because of the difficult routes and general fast pace of this particular location. I would like to start over at another post office, but I am unsure as to how to go about doing this. While I may be a good prospect because I have been trained, passed my physical and driver's test, etc, some may feel I blew my chance when I was asked to resign from my first location. Any ideas how to give this TE another shot?
Honest Response  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:39:45 AM(UTC)
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Its bad to tell someone to file an EEO based on something that is not related to harassment or discrimination. The inability to perform your duties in a timely manner is not cause to file an EEO. And actually, you mark your yourself as someone that they would not be willing to rehire because you file frivolous suits. I will tell you what will occur. Your claim will go to the Regional EEO processing center and come back to your Area office where it will be investigated by someone in your district. It will be determined that you are on probation and have one foot out the door. Your claim will return and be marked unfounded. Then when you screw up, they will fire you. I would. And it will be for cause and justified and you will be out. Don't listen to the people here who think they are helping you, they are not. And to put this in its proper perspective, if it was truly a cause for you to file an EEO, I would help you, if it was warranted. It does not help the service and its a waste of money and valuable resources to file claims that are not valid.


HTH Wink
postbean  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:25:44 PM(UTC)
postbean

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I had zero inclination to file any sort of complaint or grievance, as I realize that during my probationary period I could be let go for any reason. I did resign, and now I want to know how best to approach another post office(s) to get another chance as a TE. How to contact postmasters directly, if that is what I should do? How to explain my TE experience? I am quite certain my previous supervisor would speak highly of me in terms of attitude, punctuality, and effort...he just did not have the time to wait on my speed improving. It was he who suggested applying at other post offices.
Honest Response  
#17 Posted : Friday, February 15, 2008 7:01:52 AM(UTC)
Honest Response

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However, if you look at some of the posts above, it is suggested. It really bothers me when people waste the resources of the organization with claims that will ultimately be unfounded. Its not right and the unscrupulous posters that suggested that you do so are giving out bad information.
As far as you getting back in, contact every office you can or even inquire with the old supervisor for suggestions. In every district, there is always that one office that has staffing issues. Your supervisor will know which one it is. Ask him if you can stay in contact with him. If he says yes, contact him once a week every week until he responds accordingly. And yes it will work. Just don't call when the employees are arriving or during peak periods of the day.



HTH : Wink
postalwiz  
#18 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2008 1:15:42 AM(UTC)
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Are you an HR person? or have you worked in HR?
I am not aware of any regulations that will permit this employee to be reinstated to his TE
position and specially since he did not pass his
90 days probation and he resigned; you can be rehired as a TE if you have worked as a TE and passed your probation but reinstatement to a non-career position, no and sitting here and not knowing this employee's supervisor, the supervisor took the easy way out, that is to give this employee very bad information and giving him no assistance with whatever problems he was having in the office.
The forms that supervisors are to complete at
30, 60 and around 80 days has guidelines in them
as to the progress in different areas this carrier needed to show. I gave this TE some
advise as to contacting his Steward (and yes
I know he does not have grievance rights) and his PEDC people, evidently he thought that by
quitting he could get back in easily. The only
thing he did by quitting was to protect himself if called from a hiring worksheet to another
position and someone is always going to ask
him why he quit. Now as to filing an EEO that
is his right, not that I advocate anyone does so
without a purview and some of the people in this
post did so and got their jobs back for certain
Labor Practices from HR and got another chance
and another probationary period even thou I did
advise them just to ask for job back during mediation not monies and it worked. So do not
make absolute statements when trying to help
employees. You do in life what you need to
do (legally) in order to preserve your family
and yourself. But unless you are from HR and
you have had a lot of experience in the PO, please be careful what you advise people in this
forum and there is more than one person in this forum that tell the truth, some from Management
some from the Craft. Evidently you have not
heard that in the PO is very dangerous to assume
anything! Now I was going to stay out of this
debate but I could not help myself! must be that
I am a Taurus! Big Grin

[This message was edited by postalwiz on February 17, 2008 at 02:20 PM.]
USPS needs JESUS!  
#19 Posted : Friday, February 29, 2008 2:25:28 PM(UTC)
USPS needs JESUS!

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If i read your post correctly you stated that the manager was looking at removing you for being to "Slow" at doing your job.

All of us are not perfect, or may be "Broken" in many different ways. I know how you feel because managers used to ride me for being slower than other clerks, and the other clerks hated me because i was "Slow" but do to certain circumstance beyond my control i cannot help that i was "slow."

Sometimes issues arise do to supervisors riding your case as well. If you are not as adaptable to withstand pressure as others around you, due to your supervisors hounding, barking, and threatening to take away your lively hood, then you may have possibly been sent into some type of "state" that causes your mind to lose focus on your daily job entails. Now i have never been a T.E. for the U.S.P.S. but if i were i would quickly check to see if T.E.'s have the right to file an EEO and recieve assistance from the EEOC.

But before i looked for help and filed with the EEOC, If i were you, one man's advice to another, i would seek a qualified psychiatrist, or other psychian's diagnosis, to see if they could tell me what was going on. I'd tell them what was going on at the job, and ask them why i was unable to keep up with my co-workers, If you in fact for some reason may have some kind of problem out of your control for the reason that you are to "Slow" for your supervisors demands, then you are qualified under a protected status, and if i were you i would not quit the U.S.P.S., what i would do in your circumstance is just keep doing your job to the best of your abilities, DON'T MENTION ANYTHING TO ANYONE ABOUT YOU SEEING A PSYCHIATRIST, EVEN THOSE YOU THINK ARE YOUR FRIENDS! IT IS NONE OF ANYONES BUSINESS. Wait it out, and i would not never quit, if they do fire you. i would not sign "ANYTHING" that they give you under the firing process. And then i would immediately upon removal file to the EEOC under violation of my rights. If you are a person with a qualified disability, then this is a big violation on the Agencies part, and i would say that it would not be to far fetched to see the agency bring you back as a Career Employee P.T.F.

Hope this helps, let me know if you need any assistance on what guidelines to seek help from the EEOC.

Godbless,
robb79ie  
#20 Posted : Monday, March 03, 2008 12:13:54 PM(UTC)
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The simple fact is, as a probationary employee you don't have much leverage.

Whether you resign or get terminated involuntarily, keep in mind that not all offices are as hard-a**ed as others, so you might have a better shot in a different one.

If you have minority status, you might be able to work that. We had a Filipina who was terminated for not making the grade in production. She filed an EEO complaint and after a couple of years the PO finally paid her off (about 100K) to get her to sign off on it.
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