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HappyVet  
#1 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2009 11:30:30 AM(UTC)

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I have a question regarding promotions and pay-raise requirements. I’m pretty new in position and am a bit confused. Seems like I read somewhere that you have to have a year in position before you can get a pay increase. I’m assuming this does not apply to promotions to a new position, but I’m not sure.

Let’s say you’re a GS 7 with less than a year in the position. Let’s also say you have an opportunity to apply for a GS 9 position. If you got the job, would you receive GS 9 pay immediately, or would you continue at the GS 7 rate until you completed a full year?

Thanks,

HappyVet

tucker515  
#2 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2009 1:10:10 PM(UTC)

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The answer is it depends. First of all you have to be qualified for the GS-9 position. Let's assume that you are based on either education or non-Federal experience. For a job that is a "two grade" interval position, for a GS-9, you need one year of experience at the GS-7 level (or equivalent) so you could not qualify based soley on your Federal experience.

The next issue is time-in-grade (TIG).  TIG only applies to positions that are filled under merit promotion- i.e. jobs that are NOT open to the general public. If you have not had a year (or very close to it) at the GS-7 level, then you cannot be considered for a GS-9 job, even if you are otherwise qualified.

There are some ways aroud TIG such as placing you on a VRA appointment, but I will not go into that here.

If the GS-9 job is open to the public, the TIG does not apply and you you would  (if selected) get your GS-9 as soon as you reported to the new position.

Another option are "career ladder" job- these will be advertised as 7/9 or 5/7/9 etc. If you were selected for a ladder job at the 7 level, you would be eligible for the GS-9 level after you had finished a year total at the 7 level. (This again is assuming you are qualified for the 9 based on education or other experience). You would not have to wait at the GS-7 for a year in the new job. Although ultimately for career ladder promotions, it is your supervisor who has the final say on when you are promoted after you meet the TIG and experience requirements.

I am sorry, but I do not have the time to respond to private messages. I will not respond to them.
HappyVet  
#3 Posted : Saturday, December 19, 2009 1:45:24 PM(UTC)

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Thank you very much. 
 
Your answers not only cleared up my question (time in grade and when it applies), but also addressed other questions I hadn't asked (qualification and ladder positions).  I had a few of the pieces but your answer brought them together for me, so it's helpful and very much appreciated.
 
I believe I am qualified, it is a ladder position, and it is open to the public.
 
All-in-all, very good news.  There are no guarantees of course, but I'm pleased to be able to apply and pleased to know it would mean a pay increase if I were fortunate enough to be selected.
 
Thanks again,
 
HappyVet
 
 
Knight  
#4 Posted : Sunday, December 20, 2009 8:54:49 AM(UTC)

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One extra factor. If the new job is drastically different then the old one then the time spent as a GS-7 might not apply and you have to start over.  Example; I work as a 2210 information systems supervisor. We hired as a 2210 a new college grad who was working for another agency as a file clerk and had been there 6 months. He was a GS-7 already but had not worked in the computer field yet. Due to education he qualified so we took him. He ended up being a GS-7 for a total of 18 months.
Inquire  
#5 Posted : Sunday, December 20, 2009 12:22:11 PM(UTC)

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HappyVet wrote:

I have a question regarding promotions and pay-raise requirements. I’m pretty new in position and am a bit confused. Seems like I read somewhere that you have to have a year in position before you can get a pay increase. I’m assuming this does not apply to promotions to a new position, but I’m not sure.

Let’s say you’re a GS 7 with less than a year in the position. Let’s also say you have an opportunity to apply for a GS 9 position. If you got the job, would you receive GS 9 pay immediately, or would you continue at the GS 7 rate until you completed a full year?

Thanks,

HappyVet

Maybe this will help.  You might consider searching around these relations.  For instance go to 5CFR300..... and see what else may come up.
 
5CFR300.603, Subpart F_Time-In-Grade Restrictions:  (a) Coverage.  This subpart applies to advancement to a General Schedule position in the competitive service by any individual who within the previous 52 weeks held a GS position under nontemporary appointment in the competitive or excepted service in the executive branch, unless excluded by paragraph (b) of this section. (b) Exclusions. The following actions may be taken without regard to this subpart but must be consistent with all other applicable requirements, such as qualification standards: (1) Appointment based on selection from a competitive examination register of eligibles or under a direct hire authority. (2) Noncompetitive appointment based on a special authority in law or Executive order (but not including transfer and reinstatement) made in accordance with all requirements applicable to new appointments under that authority. (3) Advancement in accordance with part 335 of this chapter up to any General Schedule grade the employee previously held under nontemporary appointment in the competitive or excepted service. (4) Advancement of an employee from a non-General Schedule position to a General Schedule position unless the employee held a General Schedule position under nontemporary appointment in the executive branch within the previous 52 weeks. (5) Advancement of an individual whose General Schedule service during the previous 52 weeks has been totally under temporary appointment. (6) Advancement of an employee under a training agreement established in accordance with OPM's operating manuals. However, an employee may not receive more than two promotions in any 52-week period solely on the basis of one or more training agreements. Also, only OPM may approve a training agreement that provides for consecutive promotions at rates that exceed those permitted by Sec. 300.604 of this part. (7) Advancement to avoid hardship to an agency or inequity to an employee in an individual meritorious case but only with the prior approval of the agency head or his or her designee. However, an employee may not be promoted more than three grades during any 52-week period on the basis of this paragraph. (8) Advancement when OPM authorizes it to avoid hardship to an agency or inequity to an employee in individual meritorious situations not defined, but consistent with the definitions, in Sec. 300.602 of this part
"Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil."
feedback  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:23:23 AM(UTC)

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Quick question about career ladders and FCIP:

I am a FCIP hired on the 9/11/12/13 ladder.  I'm currently at GS-9.  Will I be bumped up to GS-11 after a year, or do I have to go through the 2-year probation period before getting a raise?
tucker515  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2009 7:46:45 AM(UTC)

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If you perform satisfactorily and your supervisor agrees, you could be promoted to the GS-11 after a year. This is not automatic.
I am sorry, but I do not have the time to respond to private messages. I will not respond to them.
HappyVet  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2009 10:58:01 AM(UTC)

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About Career Lader positions, how does a position come to be designated a Career Ladder position?  Is it about the Candidate, or the position?
tucker515  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:17:40 AM(UTC)

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It is always about the position.  Federal civil service is not a rank in person system. Your grade is dependent on the position you hold. 
I am sorry, but I do not have the time to respond to private messages. I will not respond to them.
Inquire  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:44:39 AM(UTC)

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Promotion based on accretion of duties can occur when: (1) the major duties of the employee's old position are absorbed into the new position and the former is canceled; (2) the new position has no known promotion potential; and, (3) the additional duties do not adversely affect another encumbered position.

Promotion based upon accretion of duties is a discretionary exception to merit promotion competition.  Reference: 5 CFR 335.103(c)(3)(ii)
"Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil."
mallen  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:54:22 PM(UTC)

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Where I work,the career ladder was described to me in the interview as "almost automatic". Everybody gets them,except for the person that didnt make it past probation,they got unemployed instead.
sobeit  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:23:09 AM(UTC)

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mallen is correct.  I have a career ladder and I was told by my supervisor that they can't stop anyone's career ladder promotion even if they wanted to.  Except if they want them categorized "unemployed." Let's face it, that is hard to do in the federal government though I bet anyone who works for U.S. knows some you wish were going to be categorized "out the door!"  LOL!  52 weeks in one grade = next step on the ladder.  Another 52 weeks = more happy pay.  Full performance level = start applying for the next highest pay grade.  
balletchic28  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:22:16 PM(UTC)

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Ok so another question related to this issue:
 
I'm currently a GS-9 working in the 526 series, 5/7/9.  I applied for the 512 series, 5/7/9/11.  While not the same series, very closely related to each other (both in IRS exam).
 
I've been in the 526 series for 5 months.  If I start the 512 series at GS-9 in 3 months, would I be looking at having to stay at GS-9 for 20 months total or could I potentially get the GS-11 career ladder promotion after 1 year at GS-9?
 
I've been getting conflicting answers on this one...no one seems to know.
the rock99  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, December 23, 2009 11:00:45 PM(UTC)

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sobeit wrote:
mallen is correct.  I have a career ladder and I was told by my supervisor that they can't stop anyone's career ladder promotion even if they wanted to.  Except if they want them categorized "unemployed." Let's face it, that is hard to do in the federal government though I bet anyone who works for U.S. knows some you wish were going to be categorized "out the door!"  LOL!  52 weeks in one grade = next step on the ladder.  Another 52 weeks = more happy pay.  Full performance level = start applying for the next highest pay grade.  
 
Sobeit as a HR employee you should know better than that.  Career ladder promotions (just like step increases) are not automatic, your supervisor has to sign off saying that you are ready to progress.  Granted it is not easy to deny a ladder grade or step increase but it is possible and has happened.
 
Here is one example (and there are many) of a GS-13 denied  a career ladder promotion to GS-14 which went to arbitration and the employee lost:
 
 
In part the decision reads
 
" Additionally, we reject the Union's claim that an employee in a career ladder who meets the requirement under 5 C.F.R. § 335.104 must be promoted. In this respect, we have previously stated that there is no provision of the Code of Federal Regulations or Authority precedent that requires a career ladder promotion when an employee receives a successful performance evaluation and works 52 weeks at a lower grade. See NTEU, 60 FLRA at 228 (citing Local 2206, 59 FLRA 30 (5 C.F.R. "
 
In fact, in this decision, the immediate supervisor wanted to promote the person but higher level management said no.
 
the rock992009-12-24 11:23:56
tef8  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, March 9, 2010 10:42:55 AM(UTC)

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I have the same question - mine is a career ladder 7/9/11. I have a ton of experience above the 11 but was hired at the 7. I asked HR about that after starting and they said it was a law - that I had to serve a year before the 9 and again before the 11. But I wonder if I haven't been lied to. I have 12 years IT experience, some civilian, a ton military and a ton of IT training from the military. Is there another approach I should take with HR? Everyone where I work from my boss thru HR agrees that I meet the GS-11 level.

I am still applying to public DEU's hoping to find something more equivalent to my experience level but worry that having started the GS-7 job will hold me back. Not sure another HR shop will look at my prior to federal service experience and might just see the 7. Not sure what else I can do in the position that I am in. Happy to have a job but this is way unfair.
John  
#16 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 1:09:30 PM(UTC)
smithj

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Tucker can you please let me know what the reference is that your using.  Because I just recently retired from the military and started as a GS11.  I have 4 months time in grade and there is a GS12 position that was just announced world wide, open to the public in my same series.  I believe that between my military experience, civilian education and current experience I should have no issues qualifying.  The only question is about the time in grade (TIG) requirement.  What you had said in your post really cleared things up for me.  I just want the reference in case my CPAC trys to say I don't meet the TIG requirement.
 
Thank you,
Smithj
daniel175  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, February 15, 2011 8:14:34 AM(UTC)

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If it's a job announcement open to all US citizens then you can apply "externally".  You have to be qualified based on the factors listed in the announcement but would not have to meet time-in-grade requirements as if it was only an internal posting.
daniel1752011-02-15 16:20:29
John  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, February 15, 2011 5:25:34 PM(UTC)
smithj

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Daniel can you please give me the reference for that.  And how can you determine if the job annoucement is internal or external.  I just want to make sure I understand and can reference it, if needed.    Thank you for you reply and I look forward to hearing back on this.  I just started as a civilian and I have a lot to learn about the rules and regulations regarding promotions. 
elcid89  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, February 16, 2011 7:43:55 AM(UTC)

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smithj wrote:
Daniel can you please give me the reference for that.  And how can you determine if the job annoucement is internal or external.  I just want to make sure I understand and can reference it, if needed.    Thank you for you reply and I look forward to hearing back on this.  I just started as a civilian and I have a lot to learn about the rules and regulations regarding promotions. 


For all announcements, there is a section titled "who may apply"

Some announcements are open only to current employees of the agency. Others are open to current federal employees, displaced former employees and veterans under VEOA. Still others are open to any US citizen.

The first two are status announcements. The last one is an external.

For some agencies (specifically the Army), positions are announced multiple times, one external and one internal. The external announcement will have the same job number as the internal one, but with a D added to the end.

For your purposes, on the search screen, it asks you if you are a status candidate under one of a list of criteria. If you qualify, answer "yes" and you'll see all listings. If you don't qualify, you're an external applicant, so select "no" and USAJOBS will only show you jobs that are open to external applicants. Selecting "no" filters out all of the status (internal) announcements.
elcid892011-02-16 15:50:45
You might be a firefighter if your kids are afraid to get into water fights with you ...
John  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, February 16, 2011 2:50:10 PM(UTC)
smithj

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Thank you for the information on what to look for on the annoucement.  The only other question I have is, what is the reference for there not being a time in grade requirement to apply for a higher grade position (ie:  GS11 applying for GS12) if its an external announcement??  I have been told two different things:  that the (52 wks) time in grade requirement applies to all regardless if its a external or internal annoucement and I have been told that the time in grade requirement only applies to internal annoucements-not external.
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