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Auburn-1  
#1 Posted : Monday, July 26, 2010 6:38:49 PM(UTC)
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Discussion:

Normal work hours are M-F 0800-1700 with some TDY. Normally I can schedule it so that I'm able to travel during a normal work day (m-f), but once in a while must travel to a location requiring me to be there at 0800 Mon. The issue is the location might be four hours away therefore requiring a Sunday departure from home station. Naturally it gets put on the travel voucher as a travel day.
 
What is paid? 
Perdiem, Overtime/Comp etc?
Both perdiem,OT/Comp or one or the other? Since this is outside the normal work week.
 
Upon discussion with my supervisor he suggested (highly recommended) that it be compensatory time off & used within 2 months of acquring (which I have absolutly no problem with).
 
The one thing that eats me is the regulation is vague. Its one of those things that gets my attention but doesn't bother me to the point that I'll make a big deal of.
 
Please discuss:)
 
Auburn-12010-07-27 02:46:32
Knight  
#2 Posted : Monday, July 26, 2010 8:39:37 PM(UTC)
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Oosik  
#3 Posted : Monday, July 26, 2010 9:31:43 PM(UTC)
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Knight, the rules on meals during travel were taken out a long time ago.  At the bottom of the first link you provide there is a FAQ page that is very helpful.
 
Time spent in travel to and from a TDY location that occurs outside the normal compensated hours is given as travel comp time -- no overtime is authorized.  Usual rules is that when you arrive at the transportation terminal the travel comp time begins and when you arrive at your hotel it ends - assuming no personal trips.  One area that has caused some difficulties for employees is that travel during regular work hours during a holiday is not attributable to travel comp or holiday pay because you are already getting compensated.
 
While the travel comp rules may be complicated at times, many of us older folks recall the days when we didn't get any credit at all for the travel.  When in doubt ask a travel approval authority for guidance and be sure to check out the OPM sites.
Auburn-1  
#4 Posted : Monday, July 26, 2010 9:42:39 PM(UTC)
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Oosik wrote:
Time spent in travel to and from a TDY location that occurs outside the normal compensated hours is given as travel comp time -- no overtime is authorized.  
 
Thats what I was looking for. Now to pin-point it in the regulation I'll be good.
Knight, you've been helpful in other areas as well. Thanks to both of you.
kg78  
#5 Posted : Monday, July 26, 2010 10:32:09 PM(UTC)
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I'm the point of contact for travel policy related questions within my division. They're right that you don't get compensated as overtime, that it's given in comp travel.  To address the question of travel on a holiday, they're also right there that you don't get it as travel comp.  Instead, (at least in OUR time keeping system) you just don't put down holiday hours.  When the system sees no holiday hours, it realizes you need to be given premium holiday pay.  In order to be given travel comp, it should be authorized in advance. 
 
Here's what you can count in getting travel comp credit:
Time in transit from your hotell to the airport
Up to one hour of time, spent at the airport before your flight (i.e. for check in and getting through security)
Time spent on the plane
Any layover you have between legs of a trip up to one hour
 
Thing that do NOT count for travel comp credit:
Your commute home from the airport
Delays/layovers at the airport longer than one hour (you can count the first hour)
 
Also, you do get a portion of perdiem.  Because you're not traveling the full day you only get 3/4 of per diem for that day.
kg78  
#6 Posted : Monday, July 26, 2010 10:33:18 PM(UTC)
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I meant to say that you get 3/4 of the MI&E (meals and incedentals) portion of per diem.  You don't get the hotel portion of per diem, but that should be pretty obvious.
Knight  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:49:45 AM(UTC)
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Thanks Oosik, I have not traveled much on weekeeds and went with some old knowledge. Thanks for the update.
jake.valentine  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 4:02:44 AM(UTC)
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I traveled weekly at my last job to locations throughout the world. We were considered "on duty" from the moment we left home for the airport until we arrived at our destination hotel. We even had somebody get in an accident once on the way to the airport from home and the government paid to fix his vehicle along with his medical bills because he was considered on duty. We were paid overtime if another agency was paying our trip costs, but only comp time if my direct employer was paying the costs.
the rock99  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 4:11:04 AM(UTC)
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The answer to your question is that it can vary from agency to agency and also depends on your pay grade and whether or not you are in a bargaining unit with a contract.
kg78  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 4:11:28 AM(UTC)
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Might be different agency specific rules then Jake.  FAA considers you on duty once you get to the airport from home.  They simply consider you driving from home to the airport as a part of your commute.  Once you get to the airport though, you're on duty TDY until you return to your home airport.  Hence the reason you're covered by comp hours on your drive from the hotel to the airport, but not the drive home from the airport.
The HalfBreed  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:03:18 AM(UTC)
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kg78 wrote:
Might be different agency specific rules then Jake.  FAA considers you on duty once you get to the airport from home.  They simply consider you driving from home to the airport as a part of your commute.  Once you get to the airport though, you're on duty TDY until you return to your home airport.  Hence the reason you're covered by comp hours on your drive from the hotel to the airport, but not the drive home from the airport.


I work for the FAA, and as the Rock says, it varies. I get paid from the moment I leave my home, enroute to the airport. We are required to arrive 2 hours early for flights, and as such, if it's a 1 hour drive to the airport, 3 hours before the flight is where my overtime starts.

Maybe you work for a different FAA than I do KG78.... LOL

If my plane is delayed, or I eat at a stopover waiting for my next "Leg" of the flight, I am compensated as well.....

Ask your supervisor to provide the regulations....

If he can't go to someone (better yet, ask him) who CAN give a definitive answer.

Of course KG78, I'm covered by a UNION contract. WinkThe HalfBreed2010-07-27 17:09:07
RETIRED 12/19/2012 !!! Good Bye Tension !!! Hello Pension !!!
kg78  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:59:27 PM(UTC)
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I'm glad you're getting credit for the things you are.  To be honest, I think if you're travelling on a non-work day, you SHOULD get credit for the drive to the airport from home.  And when you return on a non-work day you should get that same credit.  But if you're getting this credit (and credit for a longer than 1 hour wait to check in at the airport), then you're either getting it in error because your boss doesn't realize they're not supposed to approve that, or you have a bargaining unit agreement that says otherwise.
 
According to HR Policy (if you doubt me, go to the FAA employee site, and type "travel comp" into the search box...the first link will take you to the HR policy page on travel comp, and the first link on the policy page will take you to examples of creditable and non-creditable travel time).  This is taken from the example page (example number 2).
 

Example 2: Travel to a temporary duty station on a nonworkday



Travel from home to a hotel on a Sunday


5:00 – 6:00 p.m.
6:00 – 7:30 p.m.
7:30 – 10:00 p.m.
10:00 – 10:30 p.m.


Drive to airport
Wait at airport
Plane departs/lands
Drive to hotel

Noncreditable travel time
1 hr creditable travel time
Creditable travel time
Creditable travel time

Travel from a hotel to home on the following Saturday


6:30 – 7:00 a.m.
7:00 – 10:30 a.m.
10:30 a.m. – 1:00 p.m.
1:00 – 2:00 p.m.


Drive to airport
*Wait at airport—2 1/2 hour delay
Plane departs/lands
Drive home

Creditable travel time
Creditable travel time
Creditable travel time Noncreditable travel time
 
You'll notice that the drive to the airport from home is non creditable (and if you reference the policy page, you'll see that the reason for this is that it's considered a normal part of your commute).  And in the example above, the person arrived at the airport an hour and a half before the plane was scheduled to depart, but they only received credit for one hour.
kg78  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 12:00:57 AM(UTC)
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And my supervisor DOES provide those regulations anytime anyone mistakenly asks for too much comp time (or she asks me to pull the regulations and provide it to the employee in error).  She's very aware of what the FAA allows and what it doesn't, and most of the employees here are not covered by a barganing agreement.
jake.valentine  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 1:10:18 AM(UTC)
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I am by no means an FAA employee, but I it seems odd that travel to the airport would be considered your normal commute. I don't normally drive anywhere near the airport, much less end up at the airport during my normal daily commute. Many people who live in rural areas have to drive for a looooooong time to reach an airport. It wouldn't seem fair to them to be on the hook for what is essentially a travel cost (POV fuel). The flip-side is if you live in a urban area like LA, you have to leave home several hours before your flight to account for traffic and navigation of the theater we know as airport security. It wouldn't seem right to only compensate employees 1 hour before, between, and after flights because they wouldn't even be in the airport if it wasn't for their official duties. It can easily take LAX over an hour just to get your bags to baggage claim.
 
I guess it all comes down to culture. Our DTS travel system has "Residence" listed as the first option for the start of the trip and the end of the return trip.
 
kg78  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 1:17:52 AM(UTC)
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You're allowed to be reimbursed fuel costs for your drive to the airport, but at least according to FAA rules (barring any superceding bargaining unit agreement), you don't get comp time for it.
 
Oh, and in our travel system (GovTrip) you do choose whether your start and end point are residence, work, or some other location (for most people the choice is residence), but even though that option is there to choose in govtrip, you still have to use the policy rules of your agency.
kg782010-07-28 09:24:13
simchief  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 2:25:31 AM(UTC)
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Base rules for compensatory time for travel:

 

http://www.opm.gov/oca/pay/HTML/compensatory_time.asp

 

When first authorized agencies were task to provide agency specific rules for implementing and authorizing their procedures; some agencies never added their requirements and just allowed the base rules to stand as guidelines, some added restrictions, such as no more than one-hour credit for stop-overs at an airport.

 

Having been in Korea; compensatory time for travel could get complicated; normally a simple trip from Korea to let’s say Orlando Florida and return to Korea could result in a credit of over 40-hours in travel compensatory time, thats one-week off.

Remember the above trip crosses the international  dateline, Korea has a requirement to be at airport three-hours before an international departure, and after landing at San Francisco there could be a delay of over five-hours, etc.
I'll be shoveling along: <br />Digger O'Dell
daves  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 12:07:54 PM(UTC)
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There was a time the rules were incomprehensible.  It varied if you were a FLSA employee or exempt.  Whether you were an 'active participant' or merely an attendee at the event.  Whether it was 'working travel' or not (did you drive or were you a passenger?). Whether the event schedule was set up by the gov or a non-gov entity .  Whether the travel was in gov owned conveyance or private.  Finally, management threw up their hands and said "All travel was compensable, period."
 
That simplified it.
The HalfBreed  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 12:57:22 PM(UTC)
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Well KG78...

I suspect your are NOT covered by a Union Contract, and as such, you are being taken advantage of....?

Airline policy CLEARLY states to arrive TWO hours before flight time. I've NEVER had an issue with it, not now, not for the last 30+ years.

You ARE aware that, Contract Language CLEARLY trumps HR Regulations, aren't you ?
Maybe not.........

Ohh, and it's ALL on Overtime.......no Comp time. (it's MY choice, not the FAAs' Choice)

Have you considered Joining a Union, or is that not an option ?

One last thing KG....I don't have a "BOSS". NO one in the FAA is big enough to fill those shoes.
I have "Supervisors"......and then, even some of those don't deserve the title.



The HalfBreed2010-07-28 22:25:32
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frankgonzalez  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 2:50:03 PM(UTC)
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Halfbreed...apparently you don't actually read the whole post...Kg did say
kg78 wrote:
You're allowed to be reimbursed fuel costs for your drive to the airport, but at least according to FAA rules (barring any superceding bargaining unit agreement)


So he did acknowledge that a contract would override the standard rules.

The HalfBreed  
#20 Posted : Thursday, July 29, 2010 11:17:57 AM(UTC)
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frankgonzalez wrote:
Halfbreed...apparently you don't actually read the whole post...Kg did say
kg78 wrote:
You're allowed to be reimbursed fuel costs for your drive to the airport, but at least according to FAA rules (barring any superceding bargaining unit agreement)


So he did acknowledge that a contract would override the standard rules.


I saw that Frank.....I'm not blind.

However, that comment was directed (IMO) towards the "Drive to the Airport" concept.
MANY Other things in his statement is what I was referring to.  Mileage Rules are NOT regulated
by the FAA...and FUEL COSTS are only PART of the equation. The FAA will pay "Mileage Rates"
and that my friend, is MORE than just "FUEL COSTS"

Maybe it's best you FULLY understand ones point of view..... ?

Don't Assume folks can't read, or misread.
The HalfBreed2010-07-29 19:40:40
RETIRED 12/19/2012 !!! Good Bye Tension !!! Hello Pension !!!
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