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sbj216  
#1 Posted : Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:37:14 PM(UTC)
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First time poster... been lurking around a while.  I am finally getting to the point where I need some clarification and I feel like this forum is the only place I can get some.  I am a 30% Disabled Vet and  have been looking on USAJOBS/CPOL for a job for almost a year now.  I have been told in the past, numerous times, that 30% DV gets you "to the top of the list" automatically.  If this is the case, how am I STILL not being referred for positions I am highly qualified for??  I had my first interview a week ago in which I found out during the interview that it required shift work.  Needless to say, I couldn't take it.  Thanks to anyone that can help clear up what the 30%/10pt thing REALLY does for me in the initial hiring phase.

-Sarah

20yrvet  
#2 Posted : Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:50:15 PM(UTC)
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If you are at 30% and you are still not even being referred, I suggest you review and revise your resume. Ensure that you have expounded on all of your experience, not just bullets or the 2 page resume that you would use for private sector jobs. At least then you may start getting some referrals.
Preference Vet  
#3 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 12:11:50 AM(UTC)
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As a compensable 10-point 30 percent or greater disability (CPS) preference-eligible, if you are found minimally qualified, and you make a valid veterans' preference claim, you automatically float to the top of the list.  If you meet these requirements you should be "referred" on a certificate of eligibles to the selecting official for consideration.  Consideration does not mean that you will be interviewed.  Legally, interviews aren't required, so the selecting official may not interview all that are referred.
 
Under the traditional numerical rating and ranking, the "rule of three" is mandated and the selecting official may select from the top three candidates.  But even among the top three candidates, the selecting official must pass-over a preference-eligible to select a non-preference eligible.
 
As a compensable 10-point 30 percent or greater disability (CPS) preference-eligible, the request must go the OPM rather than being decided by the agency if it has delegated examining authority.
 
Under category rating and ranking, applicants are grouped into three categories where only the top category is referred to the selecting official on a certificate of eligibles.  Preference eligibles are place in the top of the category they naturally fall into, except that 10-point 30 percenters go to the top of the highest category.  While the selecting official can consider the entire top category, he/she must pass-over any preference-eligibles in the category to select a non-preference-eligible and all preference-eligibles, regardless of type of preference, are all "within reach".  With such a large pool of candidates that are within reach, the selecting official isn't likely to interview more than a handful of candidates which is probably happening to you.
 
Also, keep in mind that since Sept 11, there has been a large increase in veterans and preference-eligibles.
 
The forgoing covers open-competitive hiring, but excepted service hiring is similiar.
sbj216  
#4 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 12:20:34 AM(UTC)
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Thank you so much Preference Vet.  I have been referred for a lot of positions (maybe 40-45% I am applying for) and I understand what you are saying why I'm not getting interviewed.  But what am I supposed to do if I am just not referred.  As I read your post, it would lead me to believe that every position I apply to, I should be "referred to the selecting official".  Is that incorrect?  Thanks in advance.
 
@20yrvet - Thanks for that advice as well.  I didn't even think of making my resume one of the 5 pagers, just to get all of the keywords in as many times as possible.  I just know I hated reading those resumes when I was still in. 

Preference Vet  
#5 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 12:34:47 AM(UTC)
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Also keep in mind that the competititon will be higher in areas hardest hit by the recession and those with fewer federal jobs.
NavyQueen23  
#6 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 1:47:42 AM(UTC)
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A misperception that was made in the previous post is that you automatically float to the top. That is incorrect for certain jobs. If you are applying to professional/scientific jobs GS-9 and above, then you don't float to the top.

vandenm2  
#7 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 2:03:22 AM(UTC)
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Just curious, how does it work in the case professional/scientific jobs GS-9 and above?  Do vets automatically float to the top?  There is vet preference on these types of jobs.
elcid89  
#8 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 2:07:02 AM(UTC)
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vandenm2 wrote:
Just curious, how does it work in the case professional/scientific jobs GS-9 and above?  Do vets automatically float to the top?  There is vet preference on these types of jobs.


No. For GS-9 and above science and professional, all candidates are ranked according to their ratings, including vet pref points added (if any). For all other positions, 10 point compensables are placed ahead of all other candidates. 10 point non-compensables and 5 pointers are listed in order of numerical rating.
You might be a firefighter if your kids are afraid to get into water fights with you ...
sbj216  
#9 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 2:11:07 AM(UTC)
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Not trying to beat a dead horse... but I am applying for "measly" GS5-7 positions.  Should I float to the top? 
I am actually in email communication with an HR lady at the CPAC for which I am trying to be hired with and she JUST sent this to me:
 I can tell you that being a compensable 10-point 30% or greater disability (CPS) preference-eligible Vet only gives you preference to apply.  It does not guarantee you to make a referral list, get an interview, etc.

I am SO confused. 

daniel175  
#10 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 2:12:52 AM(UTC)
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Preference Vet wrote:
Under the traditional numerical rating and ranking, the "rule of three" is mandated and the selecting official may select from the top three candidates.  But even among the top three candidates, the selecting official must pass-over a preference-eligible to select a non-preference eligible.
 
I think you may have that backwards.  Doesn't the rule of three say that a non-preference eligible candidate may NOT be passed over for a non-preference candidate?
elcid89  
#11 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 2:14:02 AM(UTC)
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sbj216 wrote:
Not trying to beat a dead horse... but I am applying for "measly" GS5-7 positions.  Should I float to the top? 
I am actually in email communication with an HR lady at the CPAC for which I am trying to be hired with and she JUST sent this to me:
 I can tell you that being a compensable 10-point 30% or greater disability (CPS) preference-eligible Vet only gives you preference to apply.  It does not guarantee you to make a referral list, get an interview, etc.

I am SO confused. 

 
Assuming you meet the minimum qualifications laid out in the announcement, as a CPS you are supposed to float to the top of the best qualified category.
Admin2011-01-21 14:58:24
You might be a firefighter if your kids are afraid to get into water fights with you ...
daniel175  
#12 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 2:14:54 AM(UTC)
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daniel175 wrote:
Preference Vet wrote:
Under the traditional numerical rating and ranking, the "rule of three" is mandated and the selecting official may select from the top three candidates.  But even among the top three candidates, the selecting official must pass-over a preference-eligible to select a non-preference eligible.
 
I think you may have that backwards.  Doesn't the rule of three say that a non-preference eligible candidate may NOT be passed over for a non-preference candidate?
 
Oops, I meant a preference-eligible may not be passed over for a non-preference eligible.  Sorry!
elcid89  
#13 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 2:16:14 AM(UTC)
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daniel175 wrote:
I think you may have that backwards.  Doesn't the rule of three say that a non-preference eligible candidate may NOT be passed over for a non-preference candidate?


With ratings, I believe that the rule of three went out the window in favor of categories from which the SO can select any referred candidate regardless of preference eligibility. That said, when passing over a preference eligible for a non-preference eligible, they used to have to obtain approval for a waiver. In the case of passing over a 30%er, that approval had to come from OPM. I'm not sure how that may have changed, but the statute is still on the books.
You might be a firefighter if your kids are afraid to get into water fights with you ...
Preference Vet  
#14 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 2:23:03 AM(UTC)
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NavyQueen23 wrote:

A misperception that was made in the previous post is that you automatically float to the top. That is incorrect for certain jobs. If you are applying to professional/scientific jobs GS-9 and above, then you don't float to the top.

 
If you are going to correct me you had better be right!  One exception to veterans' preference is that it doesn't apply to professional and scientific position at GS-9 and above in the competitive service.  It does apply to the excepted service.
 
(Please note that I admit in a later posting that I was incorrect and that I appologized to NavyQueen23.)
Preference Vet2011-01-21 10:48:15
elcid89  
#15 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 2:25:10 AM(UTC)
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Preference Vet wrote:
One exception to veterans' preference is that it doesn't apply to
professional and scientific position at GS-9 and above in the competitive service.


You still get the points added to your rating. You just don't get the automatic float to the top that you get below GS-9.
You might be a firefighter if your kids are afraid to get into water fights with you ...
Preference Vet  
#16 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 2:29:13 AM(UTC)
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daniel175 wrote:
Preference Vet wrote:
Under the traditional numerical rating and ranking, the "rule of three" is mandated and the selecting official may select from the top three candidates.  But even among the top three candidates, the selecting official must pass-over a preference-eligible to select a non-preference eligible.
 
I think you may have that backwards.  Doesn't the rule of three say that a non-preference eligible candidate may NOT be passed over for a non-preference candidate?
 
Here is the law:
 
5 USC Section 3318(a) The nominating or appointing authority shall select for appointment to each vacancy from the highest three eligibles available for appointment on the certificate furnished under section 3317 (a) of this title, unless objection to one or more of the individuals certified is made to, and sustained by, the Office of Personnel Management for proper and adequate reason under regulations prescribed by the Office.
cityfed  
#17 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 2:29:58 AM(UTC)
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elcid89 wrote:
sbj216 wrote:
Not trying to beat a dead horse... but I am applying for "measly" GS5-7 positions.  Should I float to the top? 
I am actually in email communication with an HR lady at the CPAC for which I am trying to be hired with and she JUST sent this to me:
 I can tell you that being a compensable 10-point 30% or greater disability (CPS) preference-eligible Vet only gives you preference to apply.  It does not guarantee you to make a referral list, get an interview, etc.

I am SO confused. 


She's nuts. Assuming you meet the minimum qualifications laid out in the announcement, as a CPS you are supposed to float to the top of the best qualified category.


If this was a merit promotion announcement, doesn't being a 10-point vet just give you the ability to apply?  Maybe that is what she meant?
BenLurking  
#18 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 2:30:19 AM(UTC)
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From the OPM:

Q. How do preference eligibles who have a compensable service-connected disability receive preference in selection?

 A . Preference eligibles who meet the minimum qualification requirements and who have a compensable service-connected disability of at least 10 percent must be listed in the highest quality category (except in the case of scientific or professional positions at the GS-9 level or higher). As noted above, an agency may not select a non-preference eligible in lieu of a preference eligible in the same category unless there are grounds for a passover and the agency has complied with the passover procedures at 5 U.S.C. § 3318(b).

also note: 
Scientific or Professional (ST) Positions:

This unique category of Federal jobs covers non-executive positions classified above the GS-15 level, and involves performance of high-level research and development in the physical, biological, medical, or engineering sciences, or a closely-related field. Many of the Federal Government's most renowned scientists and engineers serve in ST positions.

I am here because NEWGRAD cracks me up. <img src="smileys/smiley36.gif" border="0" align="middle" />
sbj216  
#19 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 2:36:00 AM(UTC)
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BenLurking... THAT is exactly what I was looking for!  Thank you.  How do I bring this up to the CPAC lady without burning all of my darn bridges???
Newgrad  
#20 Posted : Friday, January 21, 2011 2:36:34 AM(UTC)
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BenLurking wrote:
Preference eligibles who meet the minimum qualification requirements and who have a compensable service-connected disability of at least 10 percent must be listed in the highest quality category (except in the case of scientific or professional positions at the GS-9 level or higher).


aka.....All they have to do is score a 70 (minimum qualifications) and they beat out non-vets scoring a 100 (maximum qualifications). And that's on a 30 POINT SCALE! lol
I'm here to set the record straight, tell the truth about federal hiring, and to expose things for what they really are. -Newgrad
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