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snoopdougie  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, August 14, 2007 2:18:20 PM(UTC)
snoopdougie

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Joined: 8/14/2007(UTC)
Posts: 24

I just got a letter of reprimand out of my federal OPF since it has expired (2 years). I was never given the signed original, and I find that the copy in my OPF was NEVER SIGNED by managent!

***Technically, was I actually disciplined ? Can I honestly deny having been disciplined to future employers ?

I am a Navy Civilian.

Thanks
jaybones  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:50:18 PM(UTC)
jaybones

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Posts: 718

Just because you refused to sign acknowledging receipt of the written reprimand, does not change the fact that it was issued. The copy that was in your OPF, was just that, a copy. No signature is required on that, although usually they put a photocopy of the reprimandin there after it has been signed. Maybe you caught them off guard by refusing to sign the acknowledgement copy, which they planned to put in your OPF. My guess is that if you were to look in HR's Disciplinary and Adverse Action File for you, you would find a copy of the reprimand that had a note, written and signed by the person who gave you the reprimand, that you were served the reprimand on such-and-such Date and Time, by whomever, witnessed by whoever else was there, and that you refused to sign acknowledging receipt. That copy will stay in that file forever and could be brought out if you are ever disciplined in the future. However, the more time that passes, the less weight that shoould be given.
tiger lily  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:11:31 AM(UTC)
tiger lily

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You're assuming that he actually saw a copy of the letter in the first place. Did he? It's possible that someone put it there without telling him anything about it; this would be one way to avoid a hassle with an employee who might dispute its validity. Stealth disciplne, so to speak, would be of special value when it's not valid discipline.
postalwiz  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:25:03 AM(UTC)
postalwiz

Rank: Senior Member

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Joined: 11/28/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,272

In the PO a letter of warning (letter of
reprimand in your agency) is not discipline
but a step towards discipline. If you were
given the letter and refused to sign or acknowledge it; the letter should be annotated and also besides a copy of the letter being in
the OPF there is a file in Labor Relations were
the letter is put. However, being that after
two years the letter should have come out of your
OPF, makes the letter null but I will let the
other people in ths forum who are Federal
Employees answer this one as you may have different rules than the PO.
snoopdougie  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:46:57 PM(UTC)
snoopdougie

Rank: Newbie

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Joined: 8/14/2007(UTC)
Posts: 24

Thanks everyone for the responses. I guess that I was not clear. The MANAGER never signed it, but I signed that I acknowledge receipt. This is the opposite from what everyone is thinking. The copy that I received at the time of signing was completly unsigned by everyone, me included. I only noticed that the manager did not sign when I was given the expired copy from my Official Personal Folder. The whole mess is retaliation for threating to file an EEO complaint... but that is besides the point. You should see what they tried to do to my security clearance!

The question is, ...is the LoR valid if the MANAGER did NOT sign the LofR, but I DID sign the LofR??

Thanks everyone,

-D



quote:
Originally posted by snoopdougie:
I just got a letter of reprimand out of my federal OPF since it has expired (2 years). I was never given the signed original, and I find that the copy in my OPF was NEVER SIGNED by managent!

***Technically, was I actually disciplined ? Can I honestly deny having been disciplined to future employers ?

I am a Navy Civilian.

Thanks
nellie2  
#6 Posted : Friday, August 17, 2007 2:12:05 AM(UTC)
nellie2

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Joined: 4/25/2006(UTC)
Posts: 454

Can you honestly say you've never been reprimanded? Doesn't sound like it to me - you acknowledged receiving the reprimand. I'd advise you to be honest with prospective employers, but keep any response to that question simple. Either acknowledge you made a mistake or attribute it to a misunderstanding. If you attack the manager who issued it, you'll just make yourself look bad.
snoopdougie  
#7 Posted : Saturday, August 18, 2007 2:19:04 PM(UTC)
snoopdougie

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/14/2007(UTC)
Posts: 24

Thanks Nellie,

On being truthful to my manager, what was said was really, really bad. But, the security clearance folks at DONCAF adjuticated in my favor. Both managers involved have been removed from management.

Do you think that this is saying too much or too little ?

-Doug
nellie2  
#8 Posted : Monday, August 20, 2007 1:27:41 AM(UTC)
nellie2

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/25/2006(UTC)
Posts: 454

It's hard to say - if you keep your voice and demeanor very neutral when reporting those facts, it might be OK. A lot depends on the person you're talking to. I think the fact that DONCAF adjudcated in your favor works really well for you. Good luck!
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