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Department of Defense


The Department of Defense (DoD) is charged with coordinating and supervising all agencies and functions of the government relating directly to national security and the United States armed forces. The mission of the Department of Defense is to provide the military forces needed to deter war and to protect the security of our country.

The Department of Defense is America's oldest and largest government agency -tracing its roots back to pre-Revolutionary times. Today, the Department is not only in charge of the military, but it also employs a civilian force of thousands. With over 1.4 million men and women on active duty, and 718,000 civilian personnel, DoD is the nation's largest employer. Another 1.1 million serve in the National Guard and Reserve forces. More than 2 million military retirees and their family members receive benefits.

Perhaps you are working for the DoD or interested in working for the DoD. Here is a forum to share your experience with the DoD.
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zech  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, July 19, 2011 4:22:24 AM(UTC)
zech

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Can you tell me what rights employees that are carried in a overhire position have when it comes to a RIF.  Are they in the same competitive level as an employee that is hired against a authorization?
frankgonzalez  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, July 19, 2011 4:49:19 AM(UTC)
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Yes.
glenfiddich  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:43:35 AM(UTC)
glenfiddich

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I was told that an overhire position was generally a temp pos. to fill a need for personel, not to be a perm pos held by an overhire.
 We are letting go of all of our temps, terms, and overhires and we were told that an overhire position can be held by a permanant and then bump back into his old position,thus displacing a perm hired in a TAD pos. If this is true don't we need to be in a RIF/REORGANIZATION status?
  I cannot find any rules covering this subject and have never heard of an overhire untill 2 weeks ago, and the persons that could be affected were not notified of the impending layoff!
  (I think I need a real good union steward!) Personally i am not affected by all this, and prided myself in being a good steward years ago. but this stinks of management doing whatever they want.
 
geo8909  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, August 23, 2011 11:37:57 AM(UTC)
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Overhire is not a legal designation for an employee.  An overhire can be:

Temp - serves at the will of the agency.  Can be terminated at any time for any reason that is not discriminatory. When you begin a temp position you sign a statement acknowleding understanding of this.   Temps have no RIF rights.
 
Term employee have RIF rights but only among other term jobs/employees. If an agency has to let all their terms go then there would be a RIF process run but no placement of employees (they'd be separated) because there'd be no term positions into which to place them, since they were all just eliminated.  Term employees would not compete for a permanent authorized position.   If its the end of your term anyway and you're let go and not extended, there are no RIF rights. 
 
This is a simplified explanation.  RIF is so complicated.  I have to look everything up every time and never understand it all.   
simchief  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:28:20 PM(UTC)
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This might help answer some of your questions:
 
I'll be shoveling along: <br />Digger O'Dell
glenfiddich  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, August 23, 2011 10:11:06 PM(UTC)
glenfiddich

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I agree with all of that, but my concern is in the small area I work in a WL-06 competed for and got a WG-IO perm. position and now he has found out that the pos. is an overhire pos. and that the pos. will end at the end of the month in Sept.
  Now, one of the WG-06 workers put in for and got the vacant WL-O6 POS.. AND THINKS THAT HE WILL NOT BE DISPLACED. He is a vet, but is a ret. vet from the Army getting a retirement check every month. For rif purposes he is considered a non vet.
 M y question is CAN THE WG-10 BUMP BACK INTO HIS OLD POS. AND DISPLACE THE WL-06 AND THE WL-06 INVOLUNTARLY BUMP A LOWER WG-06 WITH LESS SENIORTY OUT IF WE ARE NOT IN A RIF STATUS? (All very confusing since i  have never witnessed anything like this working on Navy bases) Somebody has to have had a similiar senario somewhere to help me figure out what the heck is going on, and our union steward is so correct in her responsibilites tha she sides with managment in almost every respect. She almost thinks that labor is always trying to put one over on management. but this situation needs some attention NOW! (By the way I am sorry for rambling so much but this base is always trying to get away with as much as they can, It's the GOOD OL'E BOY SYNDROME IN FULL SWING)
 As for me, I have been working for the Gov't at one base or another for 39 years in Jan. and am trying to get my 42 years in before the rules change to mess up my ret. I wanted to be a steward again, but this base really has some problems that has some stiff competion from the old boys in manag. I worked at Mare Island Naval Shipyard and when they closed I worked at Concord Naval Weapons Station, and when they closed and went army, I went to work at the Yakima Training  Center in Wa.
  Time to go to work 06:17 thanks for the opertunity to explain our situation, any and all comments welcome!, Vince
geo8909  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 1:23:17 AM(UTC)
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I hate RIF situations because of so many people sitting around talking about someone bumping someone else.  I can bump you....that type of thing.    The one thing that you can predict about a RIF is that they are unpredictable. 
Fed GS  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 10:10:22 AM(UTC)
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Normally an overhire position is created when mgt determines there is a job/project that is short/onetime and funding is limited. The position is filled with a temp or term employee. Or the position is created with funding for the position at a future date (next FY). Mgt then can fill it with a permanent hire/employee. If the overhire position is no longer funded, the temp employee is let go and a term employee can be RIF'd and impact other term employees. If a permanent employee is on the overhire position then if they cannot be reassigned to a vacant equivalent position, there is a RIF.   No one can predict or speculate who will go into what position and who will no longer be employeed until all the moving parts of the RIF process are aligned.
glenfiddich  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, August 24, 2011 9:13:42 PM(UTC)
glenfiddich

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  Ok, I think I understand a little better now, but I don't think the base is in a rif status as of this moment and the employees supposedly have been notified that the positions go away on 30 Sept.
but no one else has been notified that thier positions will be affected  I'LL HAVE TO DIG A LITTLE DEEPER! 
  (By the way, if we are not in a rif status and these actions still take place, I'm afraid to ask)
 
  I have been involved in several rifs in my career and I have never seen a base as bad as this one for not following the rules, and our stewards (two on the whole base) are not very aggressive with management.                                        Thanks Fed, Vince in Wa.
 
                                                                                                                                                       
 
glenfiddich2011-08-25 05:29:24
ezurick  
#10 Posted : Monday, August 29, 2011 7:54:44 PM(UTC)
ezurick

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I am not sure you are all correct about "overhire".  Management determines and establishes positions within their directorates and each are a registered position.  Look on your latest SF50 and you see a number in your position title.  That is the registered position.  A directorate establishes only so many based on budget and mission, etc.  When someone is hired, they are assigned a position number...  however, in my command, we have some employees that hold a position, but is not assigned a number... they are an overhire which HQ commands are allowed.  Our HQ commands share the same tenant base as one of our subordinate activities.  We have some employees working in our subordinate activity but they are actually an overhire in the HQ.  It's a slippery little thing management can do and has been doing for a long time.

The temp and term positions have other reasons, but could be part of the overhire.  I am not sure because I am not aware that we have many of those here in our HQ command.
Fed GS  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, August 30, 2011 1:04:10 AM(UTC)
Fed GS

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the number you are refering to is the position discription (PD) number which is assigned when the PD is classified. It is the duties and responsibilities assigned to the position. THe position can be filled as a temp or term or permanent, it all depends on the funding/budget. I
sakijo  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:05:57 AM(UTC)
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You can have all the positions you want established.  What counts is the Billet (body) authorization.  Anyone hired beyond the authorized body count is an overhire.  And this is not necessarily based on the Command total.  Where I work, there are authorized body counts for each Department.  If you go over your authorized body count, you have overhires even though there may be other Departments that have unfilled body spaces.
ezurick  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:54:40 AM(UTC)
ezurick

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Fed GS wrote:
the number you are refering to is the position discription (PD) number which is assigned when the PD is classified. It is the duties and responsibilities assigned to the position. THe position can be filled as a temp or term or permanent, it all depends on the funding/budget. I
 
Do you post then read?  Or do you read at all?
 
It depends on the budget (which is funding) and the organization's mission.  Afterall, it would be nice for any DoD org to hire 18k accountants.  But how could they justify that when DFAS is set by law as our accountants.  So every org is limited to so many 510 positions.  Another example is a security org can't hire engineers since it is not in their mission... etc.  Each position is established and registered through your HR labor folks called classification specialists.  Contact them and ask them what that position number means to you as an employee.  means more that your PD.
 
Fed GS  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, August 31, 2011 11:13:10 AM(UTC)
Fed GS

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My position discription number is from the AF Standard Core Personnel (SCPD) Library. When my organization determined there was a need for the duties and responsibilites to be performed in the organization, my supervisor submitted the request thru the installation to have the duties and responsibilites identified in the SCPD to be perform. There was not a funded authorization on the Unit Manning Document (UMD), but using the installations lapse rate, the position was estabished as an overhire to be filled permanently. The request went thru manpower and finance, and then went to HR and the SCPD was signed by my supervisor and the classification specialist. The class specialist built the position in the system. My SF 50 shows the FROM BOX the PD that I was assigned and the TO BOX and the SCPD I am assigned. The SF50 shows the title, series and grade of the SCPD. No where on the SF50 does it show I am on an overhire position. Nor has any of my AF SF50's show if I was assigned to a funded authorization. There is a sequence number with the SCPD number which is generated by the system when the position was built (CPCN). The organization has requested a funded authorization to tie the SCPD I am assgined, so when there is a funded authorization, the position build will change from overhire to a MPCN. Normally an engineer would not be hired in a security organization as it is not a good business practice. Manpower, Finance an HR can only advise mgt and senior leaders on the organization and the type of positions to be filled.
ezurick  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, August 31, 2011 7:58:13 PM(UTC)
ezurick

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I give up with you...   You posted all that worthless dribble for nothing and resolved nothing.  Again, did you read my posts?  And you post like you THINK you are some kind of authority.  *News Flash*  YOU ARE NOT!
 
I am done with this thread...
Fed GS  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, August 31, 2011 11:29:21 PM(UTC)
Fed GS

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Sorry that was over your head. I provided the information from HR as to what my PD number means to me. And the extra provided is from the AF website.
too many hats  
#17 Posted : Thursday, September 01, 2011 12:11:34 AM(UTC)
too many hats

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Fed GS, all your info was spot-on.  Old Z man does not like being wrong, maybe he should stop flapping his lips so much.  Overhire simply describes the Resource Management folks authorizing the pay for a position which is not a TDA authorization.  They scrape up funds from underhires (when positions go vacant) and leave without pay and let management know that funds exist to pay for the position.  Once the RM folks and management agree, the HR folks simply execute, they don't care whether the position is overhire or not.  Can be filled with temp, term, or career, based on managment decisions.  Overhires can exist in any organization at any level.  We have had some last more than one FY.  We have had some that went from overhire to normally funded when the TDA was changed to add the position.
renante  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, September 06, 2011 10:42:35 PM(UTC)
renante

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That is the registered position.  A directorate establishes only so many based on budget and mission, etc.  When someone is hired, they are assigned a position number...  however, in my command, we have some employees that hold a position, but is not assigned a number...

ezurick  
#19 Posted : Sunday, September 11, 2011 8:32:46 PM(UTC)
ezurick

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renante wrote:
That is the registered position.  A directorate establishes only so many based on budget and mission, etc.  When someone is hired, they are assigned a position number...  however, in my command, we have some employees that hold a position, but is not assigned a number...
 
 
That's exactly what I explained and posted...  but a few others want to continue to argue and claim it is just a PD number.  Blah!
 
As for toomanyhats comments.... [be quiet] if you have nothing productive to say.  You can ignore my posts if you don't like anything I post... but NEVER jump in a thread and get personal like that to me.. otherwise, send me a PM and we'll exchange personal information... and see who is flappin lips!  You started this... and your move punk!

Admin2011-10-31 06:47:16
Tryno  
#20 Posted : Monday, September 12, 2011 6:11:15 AM(UTC)
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whew someone get up on the wrong side of bed?
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