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kraizy  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, September 20, 2011 5:20:14 AM(UTC)
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I'm a PTF clerk, and I'm noticing more and more PSE clerks being hired.  Are all ptfs' eventually going to lose our job to the lower paid pses?  Not too sure what to think about this Thumbs Down
nanuts  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:05:31 AM(UTC)
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"During the course of a service week, the Employer 
will make every effort to insure that qualified and 
available part-time flexible employees are utilized 
at the straight-time rate prior to assigning such 
work to PSEs."

That's from pg. 11, Article 7, Section B, Paragraph 2.  

If I recall correctly, elsewhere it states that if hours were to drop, that PSE's should be the first to be let go.  Found it... on page 40.


L16PTF  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:17:46 AM(UTC)
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I still need help on this one. A level 16 post office shares a ptf with a level 20 office ( Form 50 is at the level 20).  Level 16 pm is hiring a pse. I don't believe the pse can work the window because of the 20% rule. I read it that they can only to function one work.
The main reason they need a pse is because the level 20 office is using the ptf more, so the level 16 pm is working 10 hour days. I don't see this as getting the pm out of the bind she is in.
Southernclerk  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, September 20, 2011 8:49:19 AM(UTC)
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We have 15 and 16 PMs fighting to keep the use of PTFs and up above is insisting they must hire a PSE.
 
This is not an answer to help you resolve and is just a strong potential of what may happen down the road.
Beyond the 3700 Post offices they are talking about closing, they have another 4000 on the next list.
If they consolidate the smaller offices, retire or lose the PMs out of the mix (the decision to have Postal retail stations that don't have a PM in office) . . . then scenerio could be that if office closes, they have no difficulty letting go of a temporary employee . . . that is beyond the Postmaster.
Of course that is if they consolidate.
 
Aside PSEs are being window trained in our area but only for large offices.
And I agree, what use is a PSE to a small office if they cannot truly relieve the PM.
binthair  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, September 20, 2011 9:30:13 AM(UTC)
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Not true, So Clk... pse's can relieve the postmaster and do the window work, if needed, such as in an office with no other clerks.  The downside is as of this writing, they cannot get paid the higher level.

 

L16PTF  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, September 20, 2011 12:21:17 PM(UTC)
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Really, binthair? I must be reading it wrong. I thought they had to comply with the 20% rule.
sweets2323  
#7 Posted : Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:42:52 AM(UTC)
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doesnt PTF get full benefits and level 2 from the union. PSE only get level 1 not to much presentation.

Crazy to see PTF loose there jobs to PSE , I understand the TE and Casuals because, no benefits were involved, but there fulltimers that changed to PTF for numerous of reasons like relocation etc. and to see a PTF loose there job that was once a Reg is a real wow factor... or just anyu PTF is wow factor they get full benefits TSP and all..

I dont think they will loose there job.

TexasClk  
#8 Posted : Thursday, September 22, 2011 4:23:52 AM(UTC)
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In our area all Level 15s & 16s are hiring strictly PSEs - no PTFs.  I don't know of a single 15 or 16 that has a clerk. And they're only paying the PSEs Level 4, not Level 6, even though they're doing clerk work. TexasClk2011-09-22 12:30:19
californiaclerk  
#9 Posted : Thursday, September 22, 2011 10:23:21 AM(UTC)
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Yeah don't hear anybody talking about hiring ptf.   It's all pse  can't wait to get a pse.   It's like they don't want a pft anymore they have a few more rights.  All management can say is can't wait to get rid of the pft and hire some pse's.   I feel there going to treated nery bad by management no schedules, splits.    Were still waiting for a schedule to be posted maybe it will be posted tomarrow.   If is's before management leaves it'll be up before noon.   New contract has done nothing for us in our office but leave us wondering if we'll have a job.  Why won't they post the schedule???     
sweets2323  
#10 Posted : Thursday, September 22, 2011 7:22:24 PM(UTC)
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PSE in Miami are level 6. so what will happen to the regulars that changed to PTF because of a change of craft or because they moved from one state to the next, or they moved from what building to the next and they had to become a PTF from being a regular.. are they feeling the pressure. even though they were once regular.. wowzi!
steveyanowsky  
#11 Posted : Friday, September 23, 2011 2:05:16 AM(UTC)
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I would say No to this.

PSE's are temporary employees who may be extended past a year but PTF's are career employees.

They are in 2 separate categories

Humbert  
#12 Posted : Friday, September 23, 2011 4:05:50 AM(UTC)
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You can force the PTF to leave a small office by reducing their weekly schedule and making them transfer out, and then hire a PSE to work Saturday relief.

Happened to me through DUO. Like this:
 
I worked 4 hours a day each weekday and every other Saturday morning(roughly 25 hours a week). They DUOd my office, relocating the carriers and reducing it to a L13 from a L18. Then they came in and said there were no available clerk hours, except Saturday. The PM was suddenly allowed to work all the window hours, since there suddenly appeared this "new rule" that the only time that was counted as budgeted window hours was the actual time that the PM was physically using the POS terminal.
 
In other words, if the lobby is empty, the PM is not considered to be working the window, even if the PM is the only one in the building. This way, they can justify saying that there is 1 or 2 hours of window work available in an 8-hour workday, and since the PM is allowed to work 15 hours per week of clerkwork--no clerks necessary!
 
This is  being called "earned hours" and is NOWHERE to be found in our new contract, and is conveniently not being applied to larger offices. And, sadly, is being mostly ignored by the union.
 
So yes, in effect, they are replacing PTFs in smaller offices with PSEs.
 
californiaclerk  
#13 Posted : Friday, September 23, 2011 10:24:13 AM(UTC)
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I believe it will happen in the larger offices also.   With the new ntft only allowed to work 30 hours a week.   PSE will be hired to pick up the slack, vacations etc.   The work that management is doing now  on the clerk side to justify the 5 hours a day schedules will be PSE time.I see r\the PSE working 40 hours and the NTFT 30 and the FT clerks retired as soon as they reach retirement age.

 
I really hope this is not the furture but it could possibly be.
Southernclerk  
#14 Posted : Friday, September 23, 2011 7:58:45 PM(UTC)
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PSE cannot displace a PTF.  And so your scenerio of a NTFT not getting 40 is true if their hours are mandated to be 30, 32, 35 (under 40) . . . and their difference of 40 going to a PSE is not the case.
A PTF in another office CAN work a L21 office or above can get 40 hours BEFORE a PSE gets 40 hours.  Seemed to be some confusion in eliminated PTFs in L21 and above offices and not allowing a PTF to come in to work from another office.
 
A career clerk (PTF) gets 40 hours before a PSE will get 40.
Reiterated by the Union and recently by the USPS via email also.
 
This is to keep the flexibility in the workforce within the career employees.  So it is more likely a PTF could get 40 hours by hubbing to other offices and get more hours then a NTFT but a PSE is not.
L16PTF  
#15 Posted : Friday, September 23, 2011 8:02:59 PM(UTC)
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Level 21s around here quit using ptfs for help. They seem to think they can't borrow ptfs under the new contract. They're hiring pses or doing without.
Southernclerk  
#16 Posted : Saturday, September 24, 2011 5:56:10 AM(UTC)
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I know its a shame.  Have to admit, from reading contract it sounds like they did want a PTF in a L21 office, but that is not the case apparently.  Both APWU and Company both agree a PTF can be used in a L21, just that a PTF cannot have a L21 as their home office.

Give it time, the bugs (many bugs) have to worked out.

merrymerry6  
#17 Posted : Saturday, September 24, 2011 9:01:21 AM(UTC)
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californiaclerk wrote:

I believe it will happen in the larger offices also.   With the new ntft only allowed to work 30 hours a week.   PSE will be hired to pick up the slack, vacations etc.   The work that management is doing now  on the clerk side to justify the 5 hours a day schedules will be PSE time.I see r\the PSE working 40 hours and the NTFT 30 and the FT clerks retired as soon as they reach retirement age.

 
I really hope this is not the furture but it could possibly be.

Why is the NTFY only allowed to work 30 hours per week? NTFTs can be scheduled up to 44 hours per week! Somebody is really screwing them over!

They should be grieving this! They are career employees and if PSEs (non-careers) are taking hours they could be getting, they should win their grievances. If a PSE is working and a NTFT has to go home with less than 8 hours, that should be grieved.

merrymerry62011-09-24 17:07:58
mrbreeze  
#18 Posted : Saturday, September 24, 2011 9:49:06 AM(UTC)
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The contract stated 30-44 hours...and our clerks and other nearby stations, the NTFT are getting 32, 33,35 hours. Postmaster told me thats what he was told by district..and thats the rule he is following.   I went to work this morning...and guess what .....2 new PSE' started. One in the morning..one in afternoon. They are doing same job I was doing. They just got window trained...and they took a terminal out last week.

 So , we have now 9 trained window clerks..with three terminals. 2 new PSE's started. 3 NTFT's are working avg. 33 hours. I just dont get it :O
 
duders24  
#19 Posted : Sunday, September 25, 2011 2:36:41 AM(UTC)
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I thought i read only level 11 offices can pay the pse's level 4 pay in the new contract? Isn't level 15 and 16 if the pse's work the window they are supposed to get level 6 pay? does anyone know or heard anything about this?

kraizy  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, October 05, 2011 12:48:14 AM(UTC)
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Well I know in my office I won't be replaced.  But what is concerning me is that when my coworker and I don't get 40 hours in our office, we have no where else to get hours because everyone seems to have PSE's..  If we're career employees, how come we're not being protected under the new contract?  I voted no for this contract and everyone told me I was crazy!  Now they are starting to see it for what it is.
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