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Department of Defense


The Department of Defense (DoD) is charged with coordinating and supervising all agencies and functions of the government relating directly to national security and the United States armed forces. The mission of the Department of Defense is to provide the military forces needed to deter war and to protect the security of our country.

The Department of Defense is America's oldest and largest government agency -tracing its roots back to pre-Revolutionary times. Today, the Department is not only in charge of the military, but it also employs a civilian force of thousands. With over 1.4 million men and women on active duty, and 718,000 civilian personnel, DoD is the nation's largest employer. Another 1.1 million serve in the National Guard and Reserve forces. More than 2 million military retirees and their family members receive benefits.

Perhaps you are working for the DoD or interested in working for the DoD. Here is a forum to share your experience with the DoD.
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Forrest Carver  
#1 Posted : Thursday, December 15, 2011 6:49:09 AM(UTC)
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Just a side question.
 
First, I'm just glad to have been given return rights, even if it means when I come back to my current job that I have to take a pay cut. So, that said, on to my question:
 
Out of curiosity, if I have return rights to GS-11 job, go overseas on a tour and while there make GS-12, at the end of the tour if I use my return rights to come home, I would come back to a GS-11 job. If my GS-12 pay is beyond step 10 of GS-11, do they just set my pay equal to Step 10, or do I get to keep the GS-12 level pay as "retained pay"?

Just curious if anyone knows how return rights and retained pay work together, if they do at all.
 
Thanks all! Appreciate all the great info and help on this forum!
Fed1969  
#2 Posted : Friday, December 16, 2011 3:13:04 AM(UTC)

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My understanding is return rights gives you your old job back at the old pay rate.  This allows one to go overseas and know they have a job waiting when they return.  If your old job had you in a career ladder to a GS-12, I think you would come back as a GS-12, otherwise it would be a GS-11.  I don' think you have retained pay from the overseas position.  

The experience, my help you get a promotion in your old location if a vacancy occurs.
Fed GS  
#3 Posted : Friday, December 16, 2011 3:31:42 AM(UTC)

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If you have return rights to a lower grade, your pay upon returning will be set as close to your current salary as possible, without going over the step 10. Also, in requesting your return rights, the local CPS can also look for any vacant positions for which you are qualified at your current overseas grade. This is a win for all as the person who filled your position when you left can remain in that position.
truotsuko  
#4 Posted : Friday, December 16, 2011 12:00:50 PM(UTC)

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Look into save pay, that should answer your question...

CivSer67  
#5 Posted : Monday, May 14, 2018 2:58:02 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: fcarver Go to Quoted Post
Just a side question.



First, I'm just glad to have been given return rights, even if it means when I come back to my current job that I have to take a pay cut. So, that said, on to my question:

Out of curiosity, if I have return rights toGS-11 job, go overseas on a tour and while there make GS-12, at the end of the tour if I use my return rights to come home, I would come back to a GS-11 job. If my GS-12 pay is beyond step 10 of GS-11, do they just set my pay equal to Step 10, or do I get to keep the GS-12 level pay as "retained pay"?
Just curious if anyone knows how return rights and retained pay work together, if they do at all.

Thanks all! Appreciate all the great info and help on this forum!


You are aware that return rights do not guarantee you your old position right?, it may even force you to another geographical location within a specified distance. If you come overseas as an 11, apply for and get hired as a 12 a year later and serve as a 12 into an extension, you'll be returned as a 12 as well. I cannot find the reference for this, but those in my office have had that happen to them.
0018 Hopeful  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2018 3:53:52 AM(UTC)
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I am not sure what agency you work for.

I have been told (my return rights are DON), that even if I am a GS-15 it has no bearing on what I go back as.

When I left my return rights job I was told by DON HR that you will return at whatever step you made between the time you left and when you came back. And this is completely regardless of what gs-paygrade you achieved while you are overseas.

GS-11 step 2, plus 5 years is GS-11 step 4 most likely.

My local Navy region may not correctly be applying the rule, if SAVE pay is a real thing.

The agency I currently work for (not the Navy) claims that employees have SAVE pay when they return.

EEngiNerd  
#7 Posted : Thursday, June 07, 2018 12:23:29 PM(UTC)
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I've recently returned CONUS from OCONUS (Europe) and no, you do not get 'save pay' if you have return rights. If you were promoted once you were OCONUS (say you were a GS11 stateside and took a GS12 OCONUS and were promoted to a GS13 while you were serving your tour) then you might get 'save pay' and you can use the PPP vs return rights.

If you don't get promoted and you don't either exercise your return rights back to you old CONUS job/grade, or find a new job CONUS, then you will be processed out of Gov service.



HR Bubba  
#8 Posted : Friday, June 08, 2018 6:15:44 AM(UTC)

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This answer is not a one size fits all. The ability for an agency to grant retained pay for this type of movement falls under the Code of Federal Regulations: §536.302 Optional pay retention. Whether an agency elects to authorize optional pay retention is up to the agency, but a quick google search shows that at least for DON & Air Force they have authorized it; I suspect this is the same for all of DoD and I assume that DODD 1400.25 (Vol 536?) would be the reference that discusses it. I won't go into the mechanics of how to set pay under pay retention rules, but OPM has several pay setting examples for pay retention.

As for the following statement: "If you come overseas as an 11, apply for and get hired as a 12 a year later and serve as a 12 into an extension, you'll be returned as a 12 as well", this is not an accurate statement. People who do an overseas rotation with return rights have return rights to their position of record (or a like position e.g., grade, pay, status). At management's discretion, an employee MAY be placed at the higher grade (if a position exists and is available), but management is under no obligation to do so.

CivSer67  
#9 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2018 10:15:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HR Bubba Go to Quoted Post
This answer is not a one size fits all. The ability for an agency to grant retained pay for this type of movement falls under the Code of Federal Regulations: §536.302 Optional pay retention. Whether an agency elects to authorize optional pay retention is up to the agency, but a quick google search shows that at least for DON & Air Force they have authorized it; I suspect this is the same for all of DoD and I assume that DODD 1400.25 (Vol 536?) would be the reference that discusses it. I won't go into the mechanics of how to set pay under pay retention rules, but OPM has several pay setting examples for pay retention.

As for the following statement: "If you come overseas as an 11, apply for and get hired as a 12 a year later and serve as a 12 into an extension, you'll be returned as a 12 as well", this is not an accurate statement. People who do an overseas rotation with return rights have return rights to their position of record (or a like position e.g., grade, pay, status). At management's discretion, an employee MAY be placed at the higher grade (if a position exists and is available), but management is under no obligation to do so.



Sorry, you are wrong there. Mgmt, does not have to hold the position based on a member electing to serve overseas. it can be a perm hire or a term position based on what Mgmt wants to do. I personally have never held any position and have briefed every single one of my employees that elected to serve overseas as such. Return rights guarantees nothing more than a position back to the location they left, not the specific position they left. Also, they can be forces to move from the location as well. Here is an example. say a member was an Air Reserve Tech who opt'd for a position overseas which was an EE position (this means no military affiliation) He/she is forced to either retire or opt out of the reserves, so there position is now lost or say filled again with another body. When the members tour is up and they elect their return rights back to their position (say GS 9) and it is filled, what then? they can't unretired the person.
HR Bubba  
#10 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2018 2:26:55 AM(UTC)

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Hence my first sentence "This answer is not a one size fits all." Your example of a miltech certainly presents a unique situation, but my answer was more general in nature. Often with subjects on this board there is not always a 2+2 answer; specific details matter and can alter the answer provided. This is why I don't encourage people to take answers for granted just because they "know someone who this happened to."
CivSer67  
#11 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2018 3:06:01 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HR Bubba Go to Quoted Post
Hence my first sentence "This answer is not a one size fits all." Your example of a miltech certainly presents a unique situation, but my answer was more general in nature. Often with subjects on this board there is not always a 2+2 answer; specific details matter and can alter the answer provided. This is why I don't encourage people to take answers for granted just because they "know someone who this happened to."


But Mgmt. can do this with any position. there is nothing forcing them to hire term. vs. perm.
HR Bubba  
#12 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2018 7:26:14 AM(UTC)

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"there is nothing forcing them to hire term. vs. perm." I never said there was?
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