Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Federal Contractors


Are you one of the millions who work for Uncle Sam but is not employeed by him? If so, then you are part of the federal contrators' world. This forum is created to allow contrators to share experiences and give insight to others.

FederalSoup is a FREE forum site dedicated to serving the needs of federal contractors, so please keep this forum on topic and focused. This will help make this community valuable. Thanks for your cooperation.

To read today's top news stories on federal employee pay, benefits, retirement, job rights and other workplace issues visit FederalDaily.com.
2 Pages12>
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Tiredofwork  
#1 Posted : Monday, January 23, 2012 1:35:23 AM(UTC)
Tiredofwork

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/19/2012(UTC)
Posts: 244

Some fed supervisors can be hostile toward contractors. Been there done that. If your company has had this contract for a while, your company manager is probably used to this guy; ha, I'd probably be more annoyed at your manager for placing you there knowing the supervisor. I wouldn't worry about it, just do your job to the best of your ability and request to be placed somewhere else. 
$600ToiletSeat  
#2 Posted : Monday, January 23, 2012 1:49:35 AM(UTC)
$600ToiletSeat

Rank: Advisor

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 143

There are contractor haters everywhere.

It was getting better where I am, but lately contractors are losing perks working at my facilty (contractor kids getting kicked out of the facility day care due to budget cuts).

However, at least on my contract, the client can't dictate who is hired/fired/chosen for a particular assignment. I have heard of people being on "must hire" lists when contracts change, but in those cases, those are probably the people they'd want to hire anyway.

Unless you get caught doing something you're not supposed to be doing, just lay low. It sounds like your boss knows what this guy is about.

Good luck.$600ToiletSeat2012-01-23 10:47:06
simchief  
#3 Posted : Monday, January 23, 2012 2:10:19 AM(UTC)
simchief

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/5/2006(UTC)
Posts: 643

If I had this situation, I would recommend your designated contracting officer clarify your contract Statement of Work (SOW), with this individual, and this GS-xx attend a contracting officer's representative course. There is a thin edge to what contractors are required to do.

Guarantee GS folk do not want to give any appearance of a personally services type arrangement.

 

I'll be shoveling along: <br />Digger O'Dell
$600ToiletSeat  
#4 Posted : Monday, January 23, 2012 3:21:59 AM(UTC)
$600ToiletSeat

Rank: Advisor

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 143

I thought some more on this.

You talked to your supervisor -- he apparently is used to this kind of garbage from this guy.

We have one Air Force client who is notorious for being extremely hard on us, his in-house support contractors. We had some real issues with turnover in the group that works with him daily because this jerk is just so nasty (before the economy tanked -- slightly better since).

I shield newbies in our group from him and then explain him when they do have to work with him. But people still get upset when this jerk acts up at meeting (he literally GROWLED at me once) or rips one of their reports (we had one report go back and forth 27 times because he kept changing his mind). He usually mellows out on someone after two years or so, but getting real requirements out of him at the beginning of a project is still almost impossible.

But it turns out, he's nasty to everyone, including his Air Force coworkers. He's outlasted 20+ years of supervisors and it doesn't appear anyone is going to do anything about him. (A few have tried, but they usually jump at the first opportunity to get out of here.)

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you have any grounds for legal action at this point.

So, you can stay and develop a callus (mine's several inches thick after 20 years) or look for something where you don't have to deal with civil service. However, in the "private sector," you probably have even less protection from jerk clients. If they're worth enough revenue for the company--and you're not irreplaceable--you'll be out.

Good luck!$600ToiletSeat2012-01-23 11:30:58
Sosai X  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:47:34 AM(UTC)
Sosai X

Rank: Advisor

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/7/2012(UTC)
Posts: 117

Being a DoD contractor can be like being in a rowboat in the open ocean.  Sometimes everything is calm and peaceful, and rowing is a pleasure.  Other times you find yourself in the middle of a hurricane, tossed and battered by the waves.  It's all you can to just to row to try and save yourself.  I was a DoD contractor for 13.5 years, and I saw all sorts of good and bad managers, incompetent contracting companies and their associated officials.    Keep rowing as best you can.  Eventually you'll find a safe harbor.  For me it was being hired as a GS-2210-11 in the same agency where I was a contractor for those 13.5 years.  So I am quite sympathetic to your cause.   
Sosai X  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:48:52 AM(UTC)
Sosai X

Rank: Advisor

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/7/2012(UTC)
Posts: 117

Problem is as a contractor you aren't eligible for the protections given to a civil service employee.  That's the dark side of the game.  Sometimes you can be taken advantage of, and downright abused, as I am sure you know all too well.  You might contact someone at the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs to see if there is anything they can do.  Their website is http://www.dol.gov/ofccp/ .  

rosjos44  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2012 12:13:06 PM(UTC)
rosjos44

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 8

I'm sorry to hear all your troubles and I hope everything works out well. I did take notice you mentioned DISA STIGS and GoldDisk. Funny thing is I work with the DISA team that created Gold Disk, STIGS, and VMS. Great products! 
$600ToiletSeat  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2012 12:52:55 PM(UTC)
$600ToiletSeat

Rank: Advisor

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 143

Good luck.
wizard  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2012 2:26:43 PM(UTC)
wizard

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/9/2007(UTC)
Posts: 229

contact an eeo counselor immediately!
$600ToiletSeat  
#10 Posted : Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:30:10 AM(UTC)
$600ToiletSeat

Rank: Advisor

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 143

It sounds like you have experienced a phenomena known as "poop rolling downhill."

What I have observed, after 20 years as a contractor on the same federal facility, is that if anything bad happens, certain civil service are gifted in their ability to become teflon. Although they may be directly involved, may have actually made/or intentionally did not make a decision, they very effectively transfer the blame for a screw up to someone lower in the pecking order. And, we all know who is lowest in the pecking order: contractors.

One of my most gifted colleagues recently left our contract for the private sector after a stellar 14 years here. The final straw was being left swinging in the wind by our customer after getting the blame for a compliance violation that he had actually warned them about.

They ignored him because someone higher in their food chain said to leave the process going. When the regulators figured it out, the civil servants all curled up like armadillos or pill bugs and he took the brunt.

Our management knew what was going on. But the total lack of support from the customer who authored many, many letters of appreciation/commendation and included him in team awards for his work crushed him.

Another thought: expletives DON'T EVER help, regardless of how angry you are.

I wish you luck.
hustonj  
#11 Posted : Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:22:42 AM(UTC)
hustonj

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/17/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,179

Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 8 post(s)
dcb1 wrote:
Last week the guy who is second in command at the facility (GS-14 I think) I work at called my company manager and said "I was not a team player." 
 
<snip>
 
I don't hang out or BS with people at work.
 
You obviously fail to understand that THIS could be the reason he considers you not a team player.  Part of being a team is social interaction.
 
I'm not saying the guy is right or wrong.  I am saying there is never only one side to a story.
rosjos44  
#12 Posted : Monday, April 23, 2012 11:40:28 AM(UTC)
rosjos44

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 8


hustonj wrote:
dcb1 wrote:
Last week the guy who is second in command at the facility (GS-14 I think) I work at called my company manager and said "I was not a team player." 
 
<snip>
 
I don't hang out or BS with people at work.
 
You obviously fail to understand that THIS could be the reason he considers you not a team player.  Part of being a team is social interaction.
 
I'm not saying the guy is right or wrong.  I am saying there is never only one side to a story.

Hanging "out" with the team does not mean or qualify the meaning of team player. Not working with the team on projects / tasks and taking them on by yourself means not a team player. Of course if you do not fit the environment (socially) then people can make you an out cast and call that as not within the "Group". When this happens it usually means your not wanted. 
Philly19803  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, June 13, 2012 9:08:02 PM(UTC)
Philly19803

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 252

DCB1...I don't want to sound too critical, but like someone already mentioned in this thread, there are always two sides to the story.  From reading all your posts in this thread it sounds like you only want to do things your way and if you don't get your way, you get upset and start taking all kinds of extreme measures.  I don't know how old you are but you will find all different types of managers with different styles no matter where you work.  If your boss wants you to say "yes sir" and "no sir" to him, you do it.  If you don't want to do this, then find another job.  Like I said I realize there are two sides the story, but reading your posts leads me to believe the main problem was your inability to adapt to one of your bosses. 
truotsuko  
#14 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 12:13:59 AM(UTC)
truotsuko

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/6/2008(UTC)
Posts: 350

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Having never been a contractor I cannot speak too indepth about that; what I will say however is that there is a reason why most of the time contractors get paid more than Federal workers. I do not agree that a good worker should be a butt kisser, which is the reason I am in Civil Service, I come in do my job and go home, if I socialize I keep it to a minimum because that is not what I am paid for.
On the other hand I have seen a lot of contrators get mistreated not only by GS bosses, but also by other contract bosses.
If you still like working for DoD I suggest you apply elsewhere and have that agency re investigate your clearance, if the truth is on your side (meaning nothing other than personality conflicts caused you to lose your clearance) then there is a high probability that you will get it back...
Knight  
#15 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 2:45:43 AM(UTC)
Knight

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/2/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,886
Man

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 8 post(s)
I've tried to phrase this nicely but if it still comes across harsh .. so be it. I have contractors in my offices and I have seen some good and some bad out of them. A few thoughts about this thread.
 
1) The Government hired your company to fulfill a contract, (I call them the contract holder). Someone on the base/site is the Contract Oversight POC (or whatever term you use). When a contract is won then people get assigned. If I am the oversee-er and I have an issue with a contract employee I get with the contract holder. (We had a guy who was stealing candy from the snack bar. He got reassigned, later he got fired. Not my issue.  I want the contract to be fulfilled. The holder has to deal with finding me quality personnel)
 
2) Having an issue with the GOV supervisor has nothing to do with clearance, unless he has more power then me and my peers. Your clearance is done by the Security folk and unless I can prove you did something wrong they will not pull your clearance just because. What kind of notification did you get? It should state a reason and a way to rebut the action.
 
3) Back to the contract. You work for the contract holder and they work for the GOV. If you have issues in a certain location they could reassign you somewhere else, on that contract or another, but that is their responsibility and not the GOV. And because of that you have no right or ability to sue or grieve with the GOV. I get along with most of my people but I have seen where other managers will tell the contract holder to trade some people and never give a reason.
 
Finally, this what I have seen or encountered. It may not be right, it may not be proper. I am not an expert or authority on the subject. My POV does not reflect any official policy or stance. If it offended anyone, I apologize. I have no other way to say it but straight with no suger.
fcarver  
#16 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 6:06:19 AM(UTC)
fcarver

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/1/2011(UTC)
Posts: 513

This also depends on the type of contract. In many cases, most at my agency, the government has no authority over the contractor employees (who is hired, fired, etc). In most cases now, due to the type of contract, we don't even get input into who is assigned to us or not. The ONLY thing we can rate is whether or not deliverables were turned over to the government, and the quality of the deliverables.
 
So, he really could not have ordered you off the work site, or off the contract, if it's the same type of contract as ours (performance-based, utilizes a Performance Work Statment, or PSOW).
 
Even when I was a contractor for the army, a GS tried to tell a coworker he needed to cut his hair. Guess what? You can't do that!
 
In that case and others, the contractor (the company, particularly the PM for that contract) issued a letter of complaint to the Contract Officer, and the GS employee in question was disciplined and required to attend training. We had a case where GS had ordered someone off the contract, and that person was brought back on.

I agree with Knight, this should have had NO impact on your clearance.
$600ToiletSeat  
#17 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 8:11:58 AM(UTC)
$600ToiletSeat

Rank: Advisor

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 143

The government folks above know what they're talking about...

That's how things have worked on my contracts.

I notice that you deleted your ginormous journal entry from April yesterday, probably good because it made you look like a crazy person. To be honest, I don't think this government supervisor person had a whole lot to do with your situation. Initially, you said your boss knew this guy's number. Your reaction to the client's "slander"--losing your temper, and all the ensuing drama-- probably had a lot more to do with it.

You have to be pretty thick-skinned to be a contractor. I've worked with some classic jerks--both government and contractor. You adapt to survive.

On my contract if you lose your clearance you will get "laid off" because your clearance is a condition of your employment. I saw several super qualified/valuable coworkers have to leave at the beginning of this latest contract because they were unable to get a clearance for whatever reason (noncitizen/legal-financial troubles in the past/etc.). ALL of them left drama free. A couple fixed their issue (citizenship). One of them is even civil service now.

I recommend you apply for positions away from government contracting. Losing your clearance and getting fired makes you kryptonite. Another contractor will not hire you for a government contract that requires a clearance. (You're lucky if you were "laid off" -- you won't have to ever say you were "fired.")

Anger management classes might be a good thing as well.

I wish you luck.
eva l  
#18 Posted : Friday, June 22, 2012 12:46:47 PM(UTC)
eva l

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/22/2011(UTC)
Posts: 176

Hi, I am a federal employee and it is a joke to believe that we have government protections.  Ask any federal employee who has filed a grievance, gone through the EEO process, MSPB, court and they will tell you that most of the time it was not worth it, the attorney bills can break the bank.  The agency employees lie under oath or don't remember seeing or hearing anything and they will succeed at discrediting you despite written evidence.  The EEOC only finds discrimination in 3% of the cases.  It is the federal management team, from the first line supervisor and up the chain, who can be vindictive and outright cruel, so no, if the agency is out to get you, federal employee or contractor, they will succeed.  Sorry about your contract and your unemployment, I know it is no consolation but you will someday be thankful to be gone from such a toxic place   Best wishes and good luck from a "troublemaker"
1zingo  
#19 Posted : Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:41:11 AM(UTC)
1zingo

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/22/2011(UTC)
Posts: 18

You'd be wasting your time suing this guy. A successful action for
slander requires evidence of actual malice. If it's his his opinion that you're not a
team player, he doesn't have to be right . He just has to have some justification for what he's saying.  So, as long as his comments fall within the scope of his supervisory authority, you're out of luck.

1zingo  
#20 Posted : Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:52:01 AM(UTC)
1zingo

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/22/2011(UTC)
Posts: 18


Your due process argument is a loser: "The Supreme Court has acknowledged the inherently discretionary nature of security clearance decisions and concluded "it should be obvious
that no one has a 'right' to a security clerarance." Department of Navy v. Egan, supra,
484 U.S. at 527-28. Given the inherently discretionary nature of
security clearance
decisions, no applicant has any reasonable expectation of having a
vested interest in or right to a security clearance. In addition, the
federal courts have held
there is no property right or interest in a security clearance or a job requiring a security clearance. Jones v. Navy, 978 F.2d 1223, 1225 (Fed. Cir. 1992)(no property right to security clearance); Dorfmont v. Brown, 913 F.2d 1399, 1403-04 (9th Cir. 1990)(no property right to security clearance or job requiring security clearance), cert. denied, 499 U.S. 905 (1991); Doe v. Cheney, 885 F.2d 898, 909 (D.C. Cir. 1989)(no property interest in access to Sensitive Compartmented Information); Chesna v. U.S. Department of Defense, 850 F.Supp. 110, 118-19 (D. Conn. 1994)(no property right to security clearance or job requiring security clearance); Williams v. Reilly, 743 F.Supp. 168, 172 (S.D.N.Y. 1990)(no property right in a security clearance).

1zingo2012-10-25 13:01:20
Rss Feed  Atom Feed
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.


This page was generated in 1.754 seconds.