Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Air Reserve Technicians

Air reserve technicians, commonly referred to as ARTs, are a nucleus of managers, planners and trainers who have knowledge and expertise to smooth Air Force Reserve Command (AFRC) units' transition from a peacetime to a wartime environment. They provide management continuity, equipment maintenance and training support to help keep their units combat ready.

Air reserve technicians carry dual status, working as full-time civil service employees for the Air Force and as military members in the same AFRC units where they work as civilians and performing the same job. A civil servant or public servant is a civilian career public sector employee working for a government department or agency. In their civilian role, air reserve technicians provide full-time support throughout the month for their units. In the AFRC, air reserve technicians participate with other reservists on weekends and annual active-duty tours.

3 Pages123>
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Milgl  
#1 Posted : Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:08:54 AM(UTC)
Milgl

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 450

A Decision was released according to our union and the ART's lost! Ouch Looks like it will eventually be uniforms for allCry
Milgl  
#2 Posted : Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:25:17 AM(UTC)
Milgl

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 450

Milgl wrote:
A Decision was released according to our union and the ART's lost! Ouch Looks like it will eventually be uniforms for allCry
Federal judge that is, as soon as i get the letter, i'll try to post it on here
Milgl  
#3 Posted : Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:34:49 AM(UTC)
Milgl

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 450

Hello ARTS:

 

It is with disappointment that I write to inform you that Judge Sullivan - after three years - has ruled on the Agency's motion to dismiss and the Unions' opposition and motion for summary judgment.  In a nutshell, Judge Sullivan granted the Secretary's motion to dismiss and denied the Unions'

motion for summary judgment.  Not surprisingly based on Judge Sullivan's statements at oral argument, Judge Sullivan determined that the Unions could and should have brought this matter through the grievance-arbitration process.

 

Judge Sullivan is unconcerned that the grievance-arbitration process - since there is no national unit - would result in a piecemeal remedy that would cost thousands of dollars per locale.  Instead, he writes that the courts have held that under the current system, "this comprehensive employment scheme preempts judicial review ... even when that scheme provides no judicial relief-that is, 'what you get under the CSRA is what you get.'"

(quoting Fornaro v. James, 416 F.3d 63, 67 (D.C. Cir. 2005))).

 

As many of you discussed with me after the oral arguments, if you have a timely grievance to contest the underlying legality of the AFI requiring the wearing of military uniform while in civilian status, please file it and notify the Office of General Counsel (please 'cc me if you are writing directly to Joe Henderson, Deputy General Counsel).  A timely grievance could be filed if, for example, an employee is disciplined for not properly wearing the military uniform while in civilian status or for violating rules of military courtesy while wearing the military uniform while in civilian status.  Please note, this Office is not recommending that any employee purposely violate the AFI for the purpose of creating a grievance. 

 

It is our understanding that some bases have been disciplining violations of the military uniform while in civilian status through the military side - this too may give rise to a union grievance unfair labor practice claim, specifically, that the Agency is trying to circumvent the union from its ability to represent its bargaining unit.  If such a situation arises, please notify the Office of General Counsel (please 'cc me if you are writing directly to Joe Henderson, Deputy General Counsel) to discuss the potential filing of a grievance.

 

Mr. Fidell and I are discussing whether an appeal of this would be fruitful.

Please stay tuned and let me know your thoughts.

 

Gony

 

Gony F. Goldberg, AGC

Office of General Counsel

AFGE, AFL-CIO

80 F Street, NW

Washington, DC 20001

202-639-6424

202-412-9625 (cell)

202-639-6441 (fax)

B47  
#4 Posted : Saturday, February 04, 2012 3:35:47 AM(UTC)
B47

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/2/2011(UTC)
Posts: 233

Like I nave been saying all along about this subject of ART's in civilian status versus the military side of it, the 3rd and 4th paragraphs of Mr. Goldberg's letter, sum it all up.

That is - An ART is simply a person working om military aircraft/equipment on a military installation overseen by AD military personnel following and being subject to AD military rules and regs and the military will always prevail.

Nothing new - I was an ART from 1977 to 1980 and this has always been a unwritten rule of employment. I believe it has gotten worse over time.
Col.  
#5 Posted : Saturday, February 11, 2012 5:49:53 PM(UTC)
Col.

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/25/2010(UTC)
Posts: 22

Is it real? Is it all over? I haven't heard anything from my locan and I can't find anything on the internet about it.
cajunkid25  
#6 Posted : Saturday, February 11, 2012 9:24:04 PM(UTC)
cajunkid25

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/25/2008(UTC)
Posts: 20

Here is the order from the judge

 

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA ______________________________ ) AMERICAN FEDERATION OF ) GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES, ) et al., ) Plaintiffs, ) ) ) Civil Action No. 08–692 (EGS) v. ) ) SECRETARY OF THE AIR FORCE, ) ) Defendant. ) ______________________________)

judgment is DENIED; and it is

See

ORDER

For the reasons stated in the accompanying Memorandum

Opinion issued this same day, it is hereby

ORDERED that defendant’s motion to dismiss is GRANTED; and

FURTHER ORDERED that plaintiffs’ motion for summary

FURTHER ORDERED that this Order and Judgment shall

constitute a FINAL JUDGMENT in this case. This is a final,

Fed. R. App. P. 4(a).

SIGNED: Emmet G. Sullivan United States District Court Judge January 27, 2012

 

wrench  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:28:41 PM(UTC)
wrench

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/28/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1

So do I have this right? This decision effects all ARTs across the US? I'm from Lackland and I love wearing what ever I want to work. I guess we should be thankful we still have jobs (so far). So if I receive paperwork or discipline for not properly wearing the uniform or rendering courtesies while on civilian status, I could file a grievance?
Wahski  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 11:44:19 PM(UTC)
Wahski

Rank: Groupie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/14/2011(UTC)
Posts: 59

Looks like I got out of the program just in time.
B47  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, February 29, 2012 12:27:35 AM(UTC)
B47

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/2/2011(UTC)
Posts: 233

wrench - isn't your question here just what this whole issue of making ART's wear the uniform during their civiliam status is all about?

It has been discussed for a long time now and if you read the brief from your union, you will see just that. Spend your time fighting another cause.
tigman46  
#10 Posted : Sunday, March 25, 2012 8:01:10 PM(UTC)
tigman46

Rank: Groupie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/13/2011(UTC)
Posts: 77

has anyone else heard from there Unions about this??? here at my base we have not heard a word.....
Milgl  
#11 Posted : Monday, March 26, 2012 1:27:17 AM(UTC)
Milgl

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 450

There is no new news on this...more than likely...if you're already in it, you'll stay in it. If you're not wearing it now, you will be soon once your unions contract comes up for review. They won't have a leg to stand on!  This sucks, but whatelse can you do?
MC5Wes  
#12 Posted : Monday, March 26, 2012 2:41:47 AM(UTC)
MC5Wes

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/29/2010(UTC)
Posts: 495

Vote With Your Feet
B47  
#13 Posted : Monday, March 26, 2012 3:14:07 AM(UTC)
B47

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/2/2011(UTC)
Posts: 233

tigman - read or reread Milgl 02-02-12 message that was posted here. Your union lost this battle.
civilian63  
#14 Posted : Monday, March 26, 2012 8:47:31 AM(UTC)
civilian63

Rank: Advisor

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 178

Yeh, just another fun loving Blues Monday. They must be so proud of themselves.
Milgl  
#15 Posted : Monday, March 26, 2012 7:29:43 PM(UTC)
Milgl

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 450

MC5Wes wrote:
Vote With Your Feet
And what exactly will this accomplish...do you think you are not replaceable?
MC5Wes  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:32:04 AM(UTC)
MC5Wes

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/29/2010(UTC)
Posts: 495

We lost the court case. You can accept it. Or look for something else. Im looking.
 
Im sure the AFRC will have no problem finding someone with 31 years of aircraft maintenance experience to replace me. They are all over at McDonalds. Thats where we found our last two ARTS.
Milgl  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:43:33 PM(UTC)
Milgl

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 450

experience no longer matters...all that is required is a heartbeat today. I have tried to hire qualified/experienced techs for a while now, but they are coming out at the bottom of the lists if at all. Ship builders with Vet Prefs are more important than avionic experience.
fng84  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:07:15 PM(UTC)
fng84

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/15/2012(UTC)
Posts: 23

The ART program almost seems doomed.  People at my base seem to fall into 2 categories.  Those with less than 5 years until retirement and just trying to hold on until then.  The other are the younger ARTs who have been around less than 5 years and are all not planning on sticking around more than a fews years while they finish school or find something better.
Milgl  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, March 28, 2012 7:17:59 PM(UTC)
Milgl

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 450

I disagree...
It is running just as well prior to the decision on uniforms were made....sometimes, change is a good thing!!
MC5Wes  
#20 Posted : Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:52:22 AM(UTC)
MC5Wes

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/29/2010(UTC)
Posts: 495

The program isn’t doomed. The Air Force will just put the best face on the program that they can.

I am at my fourth Guard / Reserve base unit. I started out with the Air Guard. And back then someone had to die for there to be an opening. No one ever left.

My second unit was at an all Reserve base. And in the 7 years I was there we had 3 openings. One was for medical, One retirement and one for drugs. No one ever quit.

My next unit was a Reserve base with a small unit of Active Duty attached. This is where I was when the uniform issue kicked in. And this unit had to start a sign on bonus program to get guys to work there. All of the traditional reservists saw how the ARTs were treated. And said the 75K a year wasn’t worth it.

Not only did they have problems hiring ARTs. The screwed over the Active Duty guys as well. Instead of paying ARTs overtime. Guess who they are already paying to work the weekends? And guess who did every weekend. After working a 3 day weekend. Did they cut back the Active Duty guys back during the week? Nope.

I tried my best to let supervision know they were cutting their own throats. That every Active Duty guy that got screwed over. Would go out of his way the rest of his career talking about how bad the Reserve is.

My current unit is at an Active Duty base. With a small unit of Reservists and ARTs. And we have problems all the time. We all wear the uniform. But a quitting time when the ARTs walk away from a broken aircraft. And the Active Duty guys are still the working 12s. Or when all the Reservists come in for UTA and do CBTs all day. How do you think the Active Duty guys feel?

This is only going to get worse. With more Associate units coming on line. There needs to be a distinct line between the guys working. And not try to make everyone the same.

What you will see eventually is more units like the 116th ACW. Where they worked

the Active Duty so hard they started committing suicides left and right.
 
After Congress was done investigating. They had to unblend the unit.

 

http://www.macon.com/2011/10/01/1726203/116th-acw-officially-splits.html

MC5Wes2012-03-29 10:59:31
Rss Feed  Atom Feed
Users browsing this topic
Guest
3 Pages123>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.


This page was generated in 1.996 seconds.