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lotusleaves  
#1 Posted : Monday, March 12, 2012 9:43:22 AM(UTC)
lotusleaves

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Is ADR mediation better than traditional EEO investigation?

 
grieveit  
#2 Posted : Monday, March 12, 2012 9:45:09 AM(UTC)
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Lets see civil servants win 2% of their EEO cases I don't have numbers on ADR
lotusleaves  
#3 Posted : Monday, March 12, 2012 9:53:56 AM(UTC)
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What if management decides not to come for mediation? Could someone throw some light how this process works? Can it be taken up the management if one supervisor decides not to mediate? lotusleaves2012-03-12 19:14:46
rabbitdog99  
#4 Posted : Monday, March 12, 2012 12:08:54 PM(UTC)
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So, in the initial
informal part of the process you may either get counseling where the agency counselor
acts as a middle-person to try to resolve things; or ADR where you get to meet with the agency along with
a third neutral party that assists the disputants in reaching a resolution.  Management has to show up, the agency arranges the meeting and pays for the mediator.  If you are comfortable with facing these people and one of their superiors (who will have resolving authority), go for the ADR; you will probably have a little more control over things.  It probably won't matter and either will probably be worthless because no resolution will be reached.  After one of
these attempts at resolution, the formal complaint can be filed and an investigation will be conducted by the agency.  Good Luck. 



rabbitdog992012-03-12 20:30:54
rabbitdog99  
#5 Posted : Monday, March 12, 2012 12:28:14 PM(UTC)
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If you don't have a
lawyer, you need to be on eeoc.gov, your agency web site, and anyplace else you can find via google educating yourself about the process and laws that apply.


lotusleaves  
#6 Posted : Monday, March 12, 2012 1:02:57 PM(UTC)
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Thanks Rabbitdog. Now here comes my question- who from management attends the ADR, the person whose name goes on the EEOC form ( responsible management official) or the supervisors of this official as they have authority to resolve the matter. The supervisor directly above the official is the main person who has caused the adverse action but has cleverly stayed behind the scenes. However the supervisors above this person see the matter quite differently. So it becomes an important question who from the agency be there at ADR.
rabbitdog99  
#7 Posted : Monday, March 12, 2012 1:45:28 PM(UTC)
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lotusleaves wrote:
Thanks Rabbitdog. Now here comes my question- who from management attends the ADR, the person whose name goes on the EEOC form ( responsible management official) or the supervisors of this official as they have authority to resolve the matter. The supervisor directly above the official is the main person who has caused the adverse action but has cleverly stayed behind the scenes. However the supervisors above this person see the matter quite differently. So it becomes an important question who from the agency be there at ADR.
 

I am going to have to say I don't know.  I'm not sure how far above
the people involved the resolving official has to be or how they are selected.  There should be a EEO Specialist assigned to process your complaint.  I'd suggest you ask him about who the resolving official would be and explain any concerns about who might not make a good one.  If one is assigned that you believe might be bias for some reason, you might be able to object and request an alternate.  The specialist assigned to process your case will have all the details on how ADR in our particular agency works.   In you complainant, make sure you stick everyone's name that might be involved.



RAgent  
#8 Posted : Monday, March 12, 2012 9:13:17 PM(UTC)
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I wanted to do mediation, but the accused (the person who who committed the atrociities, falsified my files,etc..) was the one they contacted for the mediation, so of course he refused.  He had mislabeled me as probationary in order to deny me all of my due process rights (I was an 18 1/2 year career tenured employee who returned to the same job within 3 years - it's now been confirmed that I was non-probationary when denied all due process rights).  So the accused (and the person who illegally treated me as probationary) got to deny me EEO mediation as well.  I was an 18 1/2 year employee with nothing but excellent evaluations, terminated at the very end of that 2nd (false) probation without cause (found out later that the real cause was to get the hiring manager's daughter and some other cronies hired). My NTEU grievance had been blocked, so I thought I could go to EEO (especially where I had witnesses who heard the hiring manager making discriminatory comments against the older agents - this is the guy who was trying to get his daughter hired - she (a former library worker) replaced 2 CPA/MBA's with close to 20 years experience - they were thrown out on the street in the middle of an unemployment crisis, and they had left good jobs to go to IRS).

If a neutral party from IRS had been selected to mediate, I believe this would have saved my job and health.  It makes no sense that the victim gets to deal only with the accused at EEO and MSPB, and gets no neutral party.   Also, there should be an expert involved in determining that one is not probationary to prevent denial of due process to employees - this is a crime, and property rights are being illegally stolen. Also, a victim should be allowed to go to EEO when MSPB won't hear their case and when their NTEU greivance is blocked by management.  An employee who had paid union dues for 18 1/2 years and received nothing but excellent evaluations should be entitled to a grievance.  

I really hope there are big cuts in the federal government.  MSPB is a fraud, and EEO can't even enforce due process.



RAgent2012-03-14 15:18:29
lotusleaves  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 10:36:01 AM(UTC)
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If the responsible management officer delays the mediation or refuses to come for mediation, what are the consequences of this deliberate delay on the management as well as on the employee who has asked for mediation. In our case, the responsible official is not getting back to the mediator with possible mediation dates. How long the mediation step has to wait for the management to come for mediation before the formal complaint is started.
rabbitdog99  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:20:36 PM(UTC)
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lotusleaves wrote:
If the responsible management officer delays the mediation or refuses to come for mediation, what are the consequences of this deliberate delay on the management as well as on the employee who has asked for mediation. In our case, the responsible official is not getting back to the mediator with possible mediation dates. How long the mediation step has to wait for the management to come for mediation before the formal complaint is started.
 

Where the aggrieved person chooses to participate in
an alternative dispute resolution procedure . . . the pre-complaint processing period shall be 90
days.


 


If the matter has not been resolved the aggrieved
person shall be informed in writing, by the Counselor, of the right to file a discrimination
complaint. The notice shall inform the complainant of the right to file a
discrimination complaint within 15 days of receipt of the notice, of the
appropriate official with whom to file a complaint and of the complainant's
duty to assure that the agency is informed immediately if the complainant retains counsel or a representative.


 


29 CFR 1614.105(f)


RAgent  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:39:53 PM(UTC)
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Keep in mind they will try to delay to the max, since this will cause the most suffering to the victim, and since the longer they delay, evidence and witnesses may disappear and even die.  What should have been solved in a few minutes, the IRS dragged on for years - it's a big game they will play with your life.  

I was a career- tenured employee - it has now been confirmed by the best lawyers in DC (experts on the issue, Passman and Kaplan - I sent them my case and paid them for their unbiased opinion, when my case was blocked) that I was NOT probationary when denied my union grievance, denied EEO mediation, and denied every opportunity to present my case.  At EEO, I stated that I was not probationary, yet they blindly accepted IRS' misclassification of me - so IRS won by their own error.  The accused (who had falsified my files completely, openly making discriminatory remarks, bringing in their own relatives at the same time - gross nepotism at its worst) - won by their own error.  They refused to mediate, and I was forced to the worst option (MSPB) - where the judge lied to me and told me settlement (for less than nothing) was my only option (in reality, the remedy for what they did was reinstatement with full back pay since they stole my career tenure without due process, a property right).  Again at the settlement hearing, I was told they could not hear my case (all due to IRS' misclassification of me as probationary).  So they won by their own error - I was never able to present my case, and I was an employee with full due process rights.  

So don't count on EEO to uphold the law - they are better than MSPB, but not much better.   Taxpayers shouldn't be supporting either of these agencies, much less the nepotism of IRS.  It's shocking that these people have jobs, given how little they do.  At IRS, they fire so many great workers, yet these incompetent EEO and MSPB people continue in their jobs, and they don't even do the minimal (protecting due process rights).

You need a great lawyer, but don't ask me how to find one - when your entire career (almost 20 years and nothing but excellent evaluations) is taken in one moment by a rogue manager (previously removed for the same offenses, possibly on drugs) without due process, it's not easy to think, never mind find a good lawyer, and I mistakenly hired a local lawyer (should have gone with the DC lawyer).  

So finding a really good lawyer is most important, since EEO and MSPB will not uphold the law - in fact, they won't even check into the facts - all of the facts of my case were easily proven falsified - there were even falsified backdated documents - and nothing was looked at, these agencies didn't even question it. 

So if the agency refuses to mediate, EEO mediation just causes more pain to the victim - more delays, with no due process (trust me, I developed a deadly cancer through the process of being denied due process at every stage, and it's a miracle I'm still living after what they put me through).  As I say, you need a really good lawyer.  Good Luck!




RAgent2012-03-21 08:14:05
lotusleaves  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, March 21, 2012 12:24:00 PM(UTC)
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what role do Program Analysts from OPm play in the ADR mediation?  Are they involved in the resolution process in any way?

SpankyFrost  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, March 21, 2012 10:32:57 PM(UTC)
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lotusleaves wrote:

what role do Program Analysts from OPm play in the ADR mediation?  Are they involved in the resolution process in any way?

 
 
Please stop asking question only your EEO specialist can answer!  Go see your EEO counsler that filed your complaint.  TALK to them!  And lastly, your managment does not have to show up.  If there is an agreement in the ADR, there will be a contract signed between you and the management assigned attorney (who is representing your command, not just management).  Again, go ask these questions to your assigned EEO rep!
SpankyFrost2012-03-22 06:39:10
RAgent  
#14 Posted : Friday, March 23, 2012 3:15:40 AM(UTC)
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I guess the simplest answer is, hell, yes - mediation costs close to nothing, I believe, while going to EEO will take your life savings, according to a lawyer I consulted - not a good option if you have just had your job and due process rights illegally taken from you.  However, if you are not white, EEO is an option since it's paid for by the government.  He in fact told me they never could have gotten away with what they did to me had I been non- white.  And mediation is only an option if the agency is willing to do it - if it's IRS, don't count on that.
RAgent  
#15 Posted : Friday, March 23, 2012 3:16:33 AM(UTC)
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I guess the simplest answer is, hell, yes - mediation costs close to nothing, I believe, while going to EEO will take your life savings, according to a lawyer I consulted - not a good option if you have just had your job and due process rights illegally taken from you.  However, if you are not white, EEO is an option since it's paid for by the government.  He in fact told me they never could have gotten away with what they did to me had I been non- white.  And mediation is only an option if the agency is willing to do it - if it's IRS, don't count on that.
lotusleaves  
#16 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2012 5:22:31 AM(UTC)
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Is it a regular feature of ADR to call a second meeting if discussion doesn't  finish/resolve in the first meeting? Should the employee go for second mediation ? 

lotusleaves2012-04-14 13:28:18
rabbitdog99  
#17 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2012 8:13:29 AM(UTC)
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lotusleaves wrote:

Is it a regular feature of ADR to call a second meeting if discussion doesn't  finish/resolve in the first meeting? Should the employee go for second mediation ? 


I don't know if it's regular because different agencies may have different ADR processes.  But if you feel that it might be a benefit to you, go for it.  If you can get things resolved at this stage, great.  Just make
sure you are happy with whatever they might offer you, if they do offer you anything.  The reality is that if
everyone is open and truthful, complaints should be able to be resolved at this stage.  Unfortunately the EEO process is an adversarial process and people become defensive quickly.


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