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ChiveyEll1  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 9:21:53 AM(UTC)
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Is there any way a full-time FERS Civil Service employee (not in DOD) can be charged annual leave by a direct supervisor, or office director, without having officially requesting such leave via a signed leave slip?  I checked with one of our HR Employee Relations Specialists and he said no, there is now way this can be done.  Just asking you folks to see if you are aware of any instance of this happening.  Thanks. 
pissfir  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 9:35:46 AM(UTC)
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The only time that I turn in a leave slip is at the end of the year when burning up my 'use or lose' hours, so, I guess the answer is, yes it can be done.

Fed1969  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:11:03 AM(UTC)
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If someone is not at work, and calls in and asks for annual leave and the supervisor approves it, this is an example of what I consider appropriate charge of annual leave without a leave slip.

If someone is not at work for an unknown reason, the supervisor has to decide what type of leave to charge the person when the timecard is due.  Annual leave is a kind choice as compared to AWOL or LWOP.



ChiveyEll1  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 12:13:58 PM(UTC)
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Not a use/lose case.  Not a case where the employee calls in asking for leave.  QUESTION:  Can a supervisor just charge annual leave to an employee without the said employee having previously requested that annual leave?  The employee was approved, in writing, for telecommute status during this period.  Sorry, I didn't mention the telecommute thing in my first posting.  Telecommute status, it's is writing, and the employee was previously approved for a 'situational telecommute' even before this.  The telecommute status is all above board and legal like.  Can the supervisor/upper management reverse their decision and charge annual leave vs. telecommute ?  Thanks. 
the rock99  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:19:19 PM(UTC)
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you need to provide more information regardiing the circumstances, for example did they tell you to come into work and you decided that you were going to work from home (or wherever)?
ChiveyEll1  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:53:56 PM(UTC)
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Okay, here's the scenario I provided to someone else:  I am retiring at the end of next week.  I was granted telecommute status for this month (March) in part to continue work on a project assigned a couple of months ago (final due date is June 30, long after I am retired).  Also, I already had an approved telecommute agreement on file with HR allowing for 'situational telecommute'.  Again, I was assigned to continue working on a project which is not due till this coming June 30, this will be handed off to someone else after I retire next week.  Can a political appointee office director (not my direct supervisor) switch my telecommute time and charge me annual leave if the project work to date is not to her satisfaction? My HR Employee Relations Specialist says no, she cannot charge me annual leave.  Just want to make sure on this.  Thanks

nodog  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 9:38:04 PM(UTC)
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I'm puzzled by something here, if the HR Employee Relations Specialist has already clarified the regulations (which sound right to me) why is it even being questioned and why hasn't it been corrected? If this "political appointee office director" is involved and responsible for the project, I think I'd make sure there were plenty of "holes" in the work I do that can come back directly on her. If you are retiring NEXT WEEK and she is stupid enough to mess with you then I'd gladly set her up for a fall. I'm normally NOT a vendicitive person but she sounds like a "glory grabber" which, in my experience is the type that bring little to nothing to the table and ride of taking credit for other peoples work. But that's just me. I guess I may be getting a little fed up with the crap.
     As far as charging you leave, it would be easy enough to proove you were in a pay/work status if you were in email/online/phone contact with the office throughout the day. If you show any correspondance with the office and have approval to telecommute then you can go after her for trying have you work in a non-pay status. This is normally frowned upon by the OPM.
nodog2012-03-21 05:50:55
ChiveyEll1  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 10:33:38 PM(UTC)
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Our HR dept doesn't always get things right, so I just wanted some confirmation.  And yes, what HR told me does seem correct.  This political appointee is as you describe, and worse.  The project itself is bs, and everyone knows it, I don't plan on doing anything more with it than I already have.  Already turned in one submission a while back.  I have daily emails with the office documenting my telecommute status.  Even the political appointees above this one don't think much of her, and that's an understatement.  Just wanted some feedback from folks here on the forum, that's all. I've never had a problem with someone like this before, others there have it much worse with this loser jackass.
Fed1969  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 10:43:26 PM(UTC)
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I trust your discussed this with your supervisor. 

If you were on approved teleworking and actually working you should not be charged leave.  You explain what HR told you, but what was your supervisors explanation?


Knight  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 10:50:59 PM(UTC)
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Good thing you are retiring. This is a mess. No one can charge you with annual leave without your agreement however ... they can put you down as AWOL or LWOP until you agree with annual leave. Being this close to retirement you do not want your record messed with that might change your time of service but you also do not want to lose leave for stupid stuff.
 
It is odd that you have a telecommute agreement in force when, here at our agency, the supervisor is the one that allows such work to be done. If I wanted you in, I would cancel the agreement, and you would need to come in.
 
Good luck, enjoy your retirement.
ChiveyEll1  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:05:50 PM(UTC)
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Yes, my direct supervisor supports this telecommute and I have it in writing (email).  I have daily emails (logging on in the morning, logging off in the afternoon, plus other daily emails on various work-related topics).  Your comment about putting me down as AWOL or LWOP is a new twist.  If I have supporting emails verifying my telecommute status I would think it might not be doable to charge me with LWOP or AWOL.  I'm just trying to stay at least one step ahead of this nut case political till the end of next week.
Tic3  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:13:38 PM(UTC)
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In general, the answer is no.  A supervisor cannot just arbitrarily charge you annual leave for an absence.  However, they CAN charge LWOP or AWOL.

There are too many unknown factors to comment on what is and is not appropriate.

For example, it is my understanding that a telework agreement is between the supervisor and the employee.  NOT between HR and the employee.

Your supervisor has the authority to cancel the telework agreement and direct you to come in and work from the office or to direct you to come in to work on any specified day.

If your supervisor directed you to come in and you refused, he/she has the right to charge you with AWOL or LWOP.

Without knowing more details, it sounds to me like this is exactly what happened, but instead of charging AWOL or LWOP, your supervisor charged annual leave.

Your quote from above:

Quote:
The project itself is bs, and everyone knows it, I don't plan on doing anything more with it than I already have.


also makes it sound like you are abusing the telework agreement to just not come in to work and get paid for it without producing the product you were assigned to work on.




ChiveyEll1  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:35:05 PM(UTC)
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I haven't been charged with anything yet (annual, LWOP or AWOL) as I am on well documented telecommute status March 5 - 30.  Just fyi, the telework agreement is on an electronic file maintained by HR in some way, shape or form.  My direct supervisor does not have it unless she kept the email(s) from the telework folks.   She approved it on line.  Anyway, if my supervisor asks me to come in to the office, I would willingly do so, no problem there.  She thinks this situation with the political appointee is beyond ridiculous.  And get this, the political appointee travels to South America this coming Friday, and returns on my actual retirement date (March 31).  Appreciate all the feedback,...the LWOP and AWOL was a new somewhat unnerving twist.
ChiveyEll1  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:46:21 PM(UTC)
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Also, I continue to work on regular Branch work, so I have my hands full with what I would normally be doing in the office.  This extra assignment, not due till June 30, was just a knee jerk reaction on the political's part, and should have waited till we had more clarification on what would actually be needed. There's more, but I won't bore you.
Knight  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, March 21, 2012 5:59:01 AM(UTC)
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Tic3, it looks to me that a manager further up the chain is the one doing the crazy stuff. But then anyone in the chain of command can revoke the telework agreement but they have to do that first and not change a person leave just because they thought their work was subpar.
 
ChiveyEl1, are you a union member, get them involved.
 
Also, who is minding the store while she is gone? Get them to take you off the tasker and put it on someone else's plate.
Fed1969  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, March 21, 2012 6:16:36 AM(UTC)
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Has anyone up the chain told you verbally, in writing, or by a messenger to stop the teleworking?
ChiveyEll1  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, March 21, 2012 8:32:59 AM(UTC)
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Things are completely cool/okay with my immediate supervisor. No problem there whatsoever, we get along just fine/good working relationship.  The problems are, again, with this whack job political appointee that heads the entire office of about 80 staff that is driving everyone crazy.  In retrospect, I think posters here think that I somehow just decided to not go into work and was charged annual leave/AWOL/LWOP which is definitely not the case.  
the rock99  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, March 21, 2012 7:13:13 PM(UTC)
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these are yes or no questions
 
1. Were you told to report into your office by a manager with authority over you or your supervisor?
 
2. If the answer to that is yes, did you fail to report for work at your office?
 
If the answer to both of these questions is yes, you were AWOL and should have been charged LWOP.  They are within their rights to cancel a telework agreement at pretty much anytime they want to.  Should they have put you in for annual leave without asking, no, but they probably figured you would rather use leave then miss a days pay.
the rock992012-03-22 03:19:23
nodog  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, March 21, 2012 8:27:05 PM(UTC)
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ChiveyEll1, I wouldn't worry about a thing and let everything this nut case says be water on a ducks back. Sounds like your supervisor has a grip on things and is paying you for regular work. I've worked with many SES's in my career and have never seen any of them with time keeping authority or for that matter supervisory authority. Senior Executive Service is equivalent of an Admiral or General, you wouldn't see one of them give direct instruction or performing supervisory duties as they have bigger fish to fry. With just a week left I think I'd be concentrating on closing out everything and emptying out my desk. I'll be vacating the premises about nine months behind you and you can rest assure my last week will be occupied with crossing the final "T"s and dotting the last "I"s. I'll be fortunate as most everyone I work with will be on leave for the Christmas to New Years period. I just went through a command change/merger and have lost power and kept out of the decision making process. What use to be in my cognizance is now under control of some people that have no clue what they're dealing with. After a few months of letting it eat at me and fighting to attempt to keep things on the right track, I resolved myself to the fact that I no longer had the responsibility I had before. Since resolving myself that it wasn't on my shoulders, I've watched several train wrecks and each time presented email backing up my claims that I had recommended doing things completely different. So far the blame has fallen on those that did make the un-informed decisions so I'm still on the good side of the people that matter. I've learned to voice my opinion ONLY when asked and to respond to EVERY email with facts to confirm my advice and recommendations where opposed to what was being done. That way I have proof that I did not issue bad advice and my nerves don't get rattled.

      Point is, don't let them get to you. Change the things you can. Accept the things you can't. Put everything in writing with a date stamp and be sure to keep a copy. Then sit back watch the crash and laugh knowing that you'll be out of the wreckage soon. I look forward to waking up everyday on my own schedule and playing with my toys all day until the street lights come on. OH but the wisdom that comes with age and experience

nodog2012-03-22 04:34:22
ChiveyEll1  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, March 21, 2012 9:37:30 PM(UTC)
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to the rock99 - No to both questions.   
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