Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Federal Career Planning and Development

Are you looking to get promoted?
Maybe a change in your federal career?
Need tips on resume writing to land a federal job?
Or how to increase your salary or get a pay raise?

Join this active discussion with others climbing the same challenging career ladder.

Consider ordering some helpful resources or read today's top news stories on federal employee pay, benefits, retirement, job rights and other workplace issues by visiting FederalDaily.com.

2 Pages12>
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
carebr2212  
#1 Posted : Sunday, April 08, 2012 9:06:06 PM(UTC)
carebr2212

Rank: Rookie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 36

I have written on here several times before, but am feeling utterly hopeless.  I need a straight answer from someone. 

I am a GS 5 in the 0600 medical series.  At the time I was hired, I had a bachelor's degree with an emphasis in behavioral science and american history/political science.   only along with almost 20 years of medical experience.  I was hired as a YB01 in 2009, but when they converted us back to GS, without even coming to see me (we are a GSU 2 hrs away from the closest Civilian Personnel Office), the made me a GS 04 in the 0300 series.  After several appeals, they redid my PD, and converted me to a GS 05 back on 11 Sept 11.  To confirm, I have not been a GS 5 for 52 weeks.

For over two years, at our very small base, a GS 9 Work Life Specialist position has been open.  I have been denied every time applying with 9 different reasons--sometimes TIG, sometimes education, sometimes not enough work experience.  I finished my Masters this past December in International Relations, so I applied again.  Once again, they deny me for TIG. 

Sometimes the CPO office 2 hrs away tells me I am qualified since I am moving from one series to another.  Sometimes I am told because I haven't been in a GS 5 for more then 52 weeks, I can move to a GS 9 in a different series.  Sometimes, I am told no matter what, I will be denied for TIG.  To add insult to injury, there ARE NO GS7 OR GS 8 positions on our base at all, so while my husband is stationed here (I am a military spouse) I will NEVER make time in grade. 

Do I have any basis to appeal the decision for TIG?  Do I have any other options other then to quit for 52 wks to reset myself?  I have literally won Civilian of the Year at our location two years in a row, plus, beaten everyone at the FW 2 hrs away as well.  Is this the best reward they can give us? HELP!

Thank you in advance for your consideration. 

Fed GS  
#2 Posted : Sunday, April 08, 2012 9:53:00 PM(UTC)
Fed GS

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/20/2011(UTC)
Posts: 308

You can talk with the selecting supervisor of the position, ask if they will make the position developmental. Make an appt with the selecting supervisor and take your resume. As your stated you are at a small base, let the office know your are interested. Some small bases are willing to make developmental positions in order to fill the position and not go thru advertising for the full performance level and being unable to fill it as no one applies or no one is qualified at the full performance level.
carebr2212  
#3 Posted : Sunday, April 08, 2012 9:58:44 PM(UTC)
carebr2212

Rank: Rookie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 36

spacecowboy  
#4 Posted : Sunday, April 08, 2012 11:07:38 PM(UTC)
spacecowboy

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 308

"Masters this past December in International Relations". This degree does not have anything to do with being a Work Life Specialist. Why don't you apply for jobs, that will be appropriate for this degree? Whatever jobs those might be. What was your goal with this Masters degree? It seems to me with your medical background, going with a Masters in Social Work, would have been a better plan.
Knight  
#5 Posted : Sunday, April 08, 2012 11:24:27 PM(UTC)
Knight

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/2/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,873

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 6 time(s) in 6 post(s)
How is the job advertised? If it is internal then you have to have TIG. If it is external then you can apply "from the outside" using your experiences and education from other sources and not the GS TIG ones.
 
There are a few threads here in FedSoup discussing this process.
carebr2212  
#6 Posted : Sunday, April 08, 2012 11:36:34 PM(UTC)
carebr2212

Rank: Rookie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 36



Per my previous post, my undergrad is in behavioral health--you need 18 credits in sociology or related field to be a Work Life Specialist.  Also, I am a military spouse, so I am restricted to jobs that are open at the base I am at--I don't have the freedom to pick and choose or I would have to leave my deployed husband overseas and come back to the states.  It is clear that this is probably my only option.  Quitting for 52 wks to reset myself or going back to the states on my own dime and hoping my husband gets orders to that location or retires in the process. 

As a military spouse overseas, we have limited education options.  I had to pick a good school that would work with my education restrictions by being in Germany, and one that wasn't a degree mill.  I chose the University of Oklahoma because that is the only school on my tiny base that offered a Masters.  And even then, I had two choices in degrees, so I chose International Relations. 

It is a job restricted to the local commuting area, and TIG applies.   I
called my CPO office again who told me to quit and then hope the position is open in a year. GREAT

I don't think people understand
the challenges of military spouse life--I really don't want to be a
work life specialist, I want the GS 9 part of it to set myself up for
when I return to the states when my husband is no longer in the
military.  I don't want to be a medical support assistant either, just
took the job under NSPS to make money until we PCS back.  This is what
we do as military spouses while we follow our active duty folks around. 
I am proud of his service but frustrated that we are restricted as
spouses to the same rules everyone else is.  As I said, I will NEVER
make time in grade here because those positions do not exist at my small, tiny base.
carebr22122012-04-09 07:48:19
Knight  
#7 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 12:34:32 AM(UTC)
Knight

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/2/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,873

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 6 time(s) in 6 post(s)
Most of us on here understand your situation. Many of us are military, veterans, or spouses of same. You are not unique with your problem. I know spouses with various level of degrees that are working as commisary baggers to help the family situation. My spouse did not work for 2 years at one of our assignments. I have a friend right now overseas as a contractor since the GOV told him to PCS back home at the 5 year mark and he really wanted to stay. I have friends that are doing what we call "split-operations." One spouse is in one place and the other elsewhere getting (or looking) for a job. It happens.
 
But that is just how other folk have done things. In the end you and your spouse have do what is best for your family. Good luck.
Fed GS  
#8 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 12:56:51 AM(UTC)
Fed GS

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/20/2011(UTC)
Posts: 308

As a military spouse if there are limited applicants for the position or no qualified applicants for the position - the supervisor can restructure the job. At some bases - jobs are being restructured to developmental so that applicants located at that base facing possible RIF can compete for a vacancy. As the Airman and Family Resident Center where majoriy of bases have the Work Life Specialist - understand the Spouse Program. Talk to them.
carebr2212  
#9 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 1:14:54 AM(UTC)
carebr2212

Rank: Rookie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 36

I have approached the manager on several different occasions and she is either unwilling or unable to do it.  With our CPO office two hours away, we are not on their top priority list.  They were short-manned down there and just recently filled the open job that is our liaison.  So maybe she has and they won't allow her to?  Or maybe she doesn't want to?  I don't know---it is just too bad.  If and when it comes time to do my exit interview, I will be very specific though as to why I am leaving. 

I appreciate the replies.  If anyone has any other ideas, my ears are open.

spacecowboy  
#10 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 11:32:07 PM(UTC)
spacecowboy

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 308

My opinion on this...the DOD keeps hiring "spouses" in jobs, that they are not qualified for, and it does not benefit service members. For example, DOD transition counselors, who don't have knowledge of disabilities, or employment for people with disabilities, and can't provide comprehensive case management.
 
Maybe this manager is actually taking a critical look at this issue, and trying to find a qualified person for the job, rather than handing the job to someone because they are are married to a service member. Kudos, for a change....
carebr2212  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, April 10, 2012 12:44:37 AM(UTC)
carebr2212

Rank: Rookie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 36


Space cowboy--

While I respect your opinion, I think you may have made an error when reading my posts/replies.

 I am qualified for the position--not only do I have the education requirements, but I have been acting in a volunteer position as a key spouse on the base doing alot of what is required for the position and not getting paid for it.  This on top of holding a job which I am overqualified for and being asked to sit in and assist for GS positions ABOVE mine when they are out on leave, etc.  If I am winning Civilian of the Year awards for my base and fighter wings, I must be doing something right. 

As I said, I respect your opinion, but look at it this way.  I have an advanced degree with 10 years of volunteer service in my dream career field and cannot get a job in that field because I keep getting blocked by veterans.  Even though I might be more qualified then they are in both experience and education, my name doesn't get through.  I have respect for the service provided, and since my husband has served twenty one years, I look forward to him being provided that same benefit.  But at what point is the correct and most qualified person going to be selected for the job, and all this TIG and other preferences going to be sacked?  Why am I wrong to go after a job that I qualify for but that you seem to think I am stealing from a veteran?  If things don't change our government will continue to fail as compared to the private sector. 

If locally they were critically looking at the issue, then I would already be in the position instead of the possibility of paying someone to PCS from the states (probably a veteran), pay their PCS costs,  housing, etc., when I am already here on orders with my husband from the states.  Instead two of the four positions they did have open did go to veterans which they are paying to live here.  I would not require that, and since I qualify it just doesn't make sense.  Fraud, waste, and abuse anyone?

I dont' know that there is a solution.  What I do know is that TIG seems silly when there is no way anyone here will ever meet TIG since the positions don't exist to meet the requirement.

Again, thank you all for your responses. 




carebr22122012-04-10 08:54:08
Tryno  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:10:41 AM(UTC)
Tryno

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,094

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)


"I don't think people understand the challenges of military spouse life--I really don't want to be a work life specialist, I want the GS 9 part of it to set myself up for when I return to the states when my husband is no longer in the military. I don't want to be a medical support assistant either, just took the job under NSPS to make money until we PCS back. This is what we do as military spouses while we follow our active duty folks around. I am proud of his service but frustrated that we are restricted as spouses to the same rules everyone else is. As I said, I will NEVER make time in grade here because those positions do not exist at my small, tiny base."

I wish I had a magic wand to give you the job you want but I don't.  Let me ask something, do the people doing the hiring know that you are really not interested in being a work life specialist? If so that maybe a part of your problem. I don't about anyone else but if I was in a position to hire, I really won't want to hire someone who was interested in the job but just interested in the pay. 

Second thing is this, I take exception to statements like this "This is what we do as military spouses while we follow our active duty folks around."  A lot spouses of private industry employees do the same thing and have the same types of problems.  Problems like never staying in one place long enough to build seniority or retirement benefits, having to change jobs when the spouse gets promoted or changes companies.  Spouses of Federal employees also face these types of problems, they are not restricted to military spouses. 

I think most of you know that I'm not intending to knock a veteran or a military spouse, just pointing out that crying (sorry that's a bad word but I can't think of how to say it) about something like this really doesn't do anyone any good.  That type of statement causes some civilians to lose a small amount of respect for all military and military spouses.  Shouldn't be that way but it is. 

Again good luck on the job front, wish both you and your spouse the best, and pray that he stays safe.   

 


 

stana  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, April 10, 2012 1:53:54 PM(UTC)
stana

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/15/2011(UTC)
Posts: 161



I am so tired of seeing these spousal preference applicants cry about not being able to get a federal job.  You have a hiring preference, get over it.  The majority of spousal preference hires ONLY get hired because they have the preference, not due to their qualifications.  The only thing more frusturating than seeing a vet be given a job due to a hiring preference is seeing a spousal preference being given a federal job.   
Eternal-Itch  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:21:48 AM(UTC)
Eternal-Itch

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/1/2009(UTC)
Posts: 449

stana wrote:
I am so tired of seeing these spousal preference applicants cry about not being able to get a federal job.  You have a hiring preference, get over it.  The majority of spousal preference hires ONLY get hired because they have the preference, not due to their qualifications.  The only thing more frusturating than seeing a vet be given a job due to a hiring preference is seeing a spousal preference being given a federal job.   
Actually, the only thing more "frusturating" (same graduating class as coderunner?) is listening to morons like you always blaming someone else for their inabilities to find a federal job. Maybe its time for you to just STFU and accept the fact your "skills" are completely unmarketable.
Fed GS  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:03:09 AM(UTC)
Fed GS

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/20/2011(UTC)
Posts: 308

Most individuals look at federal jobs as a career choice. Spouse look at getting a job, experience in areas that will keep them in federal employment when they go back to the states. Hiring someone and paying their PCS costs, is investing in the future.
carebr2212  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 1:58:24 PM(UTC)
carebr2212

Rank: Rookie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 36

I do appreciate everyone's posts on here--even the critical ones--because honestly, I think it helps me be a better person and of course it helps me better understand others.  So again, good and bad, thanks everyone.

I just want to mention that I did have a career--I worked for a health insurance company from 1998-2005 and was one of the youngest managers they ever chose for promotion.  I started from the bottom and worked my way up, and was on the fast track to becoming a true leader when my husband received his orders.  We left in 2005 and haven't been back and won't until 2013 or 2014. 

The facts are this:  there is no more promotion potential on my base.  Even though I am qualified, positions just don't exist here for me to advance to, and that is a sad fact.  I want to be challenged and I qualify for jobs that have been open for over a year here.  Whether or not you want to criticize me for wanting the position is fine, but understand that I am qualified, and the only thing holding me back is time in grade...and that is sad.  But also know this--for every job they are "investing in the future" with, they are taking away from the people who are stationed here with their spouses, and that is just too bad.  That doesn't seem fair either.  What is the proper balance? 

You can call it crying if you want, by the way, but if you sat in a job for three years with no promotion potential in which you were overqualified for, you might complain to.  The whole, "you should be happy you have a job" argument doesn't go far with me, since I also want to be happy too. 

Again, thanks everyone--great posts!!

flat  
#17 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2012 4:46:10 AM(UTC)
flat

Rank: Groupie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/15/2002(UTC)
Posts: 84

I did not go back an look at the entire post, but regarding those positions which have been open for over a year, have they only been advertised internally which would require TIG.  If they announced as an "outside" position and with your education and qualifications, you could probably be selected based upon experience.  I do not know if that can be done in an overseas environment, but maybe that is a question that can be asked of the selecting official as another method of filling a position for which no one has been qualified for over a year.
bmj2  
#18 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2012 7:18:55 AM(UTC)
bmj2

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/21/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,298

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)


I guess I'll try to talk to all these points.  First for some perspective.  I am a veteran.  My wife was a military spouse so I know very much your POV.  I have also been a hiring official and have hired quite a few spouses.  And, just because you are a spouse on a base with limited opportunities, sorry, you aren't the only one in that position.  There are a lot of us, vets and non vets who also would love to move up but there aren't any positions available. 

Here's part of the situation, you may not have anything to do with it, but it's been created for you by spouses who came before.  As a supervisor it is very frustrating to hire someone who doesn't really want to be there and who plans to leave as soon as possible.  Training takes time before a person is productive.  Yet most spouses move well before they reach that skill level.  Unfortunatly some have also created a bad taste by using the spouse connection to get hired and then using the wives club buddy system to get switched to where they want to be.  It is no fun spending three months on the HR system to hire someone who is only there a single pay period and then starting over.  It is just less work to leave the position vacant than fill/train/lose/fill repeat cycle.

What this means is most spouses will only get hired for low level, low skill jobs that they can quickly learn and that won't leave the office in the lurch.  Think about what you would tell that supervisor that hiring you is a good decision rather than a waste of time.  Sell your ability to make a big difference, not the burden you will be.  Otherwise crying on here won't help.

Tryno  
#19 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2012 7:19:17 AM(UTC)
Tryno

Rank: Senior Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,094

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)


"but if you sat in a job for three years with no promotion potential in which you were overqualified for, you might complain to"  Sorry been there done that and so have a lot of other people.  I'm sorry you are in that type of situation, it's not fun.  The thing is you need to realize that you are NOT the only one in that position.  Maybe I'm misreading your posts but to me you seem to be feeling like you are the only one suffering through things like this.  Your husband is doing a great thing by serving the country we all love.  You are also, all military spouses make sacrifices to be with their spouse.  You and all military spouses should be thanked but don't think that only military spouses make sacrifices.  Again wishing you the very best of luck in finding the job you want. 
carebr2212  
#20 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2012 2:32:32 PM(UTC)
carebr2212

Rank: Rookie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 36

As I said, thanks everyone for the responses--it is appreciated.  I just think it is better to get other perspectives, and everyone who replied certainly helped me gain that, even if they felt they were being harsh.





carebr22122012-04-14 22:37:45
Rss Feed  Atom Feed
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.


This page was generated in 0.833 seconds.