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Department of Defense


The Department of Defense (DoD) is charged with coordinating and supervising all agencies and functions of the government relating directly to national security and the United States armed forces. The mission of the Department of Defense is to provide the military forces needed to deter war and to protect the security of our country.

The Department of Defense is America's oldest and largest government agency -tracing its roots back to pre-Revolutionary times. Today, the Department is not only in charge of the military, but it also employs a civilian force of thousands. With over 1.4 million men and women on active duty, and 718,000 civilian personnel, DoD is the nation's largest employer. Another 1.1 million serve in the National Guard and Reserve forces. More than 2 million military retirees and their family members receive benefits.

Perhaps you are working for the DoD or interested in working for the DoD. Here is a forum to share your experience with the DoD.
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Trey  
#1 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 9:09:24 AM(UTC)
Trey

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Hello DoD forum,

Can anyone explain how an NH-02 position is different from a WG or GS position?

Thanks in advance. 
"Be the change you want to see in the world."<br />-Mahatma Gandhi <br /><br />
Jethro Bodine  
#2 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 9:17:49 AM(UTC)
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NH-02 is supervisory.



Jethro Bodine  
#3 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 9:19:28 AM(UTC)
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GS is usually entry level. Wage Grade follows.
Jethro Bodine2012-04-09 17:26:50
Trey  
#4 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 8:30:17 PM(UTC)
Trey

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Is there a government website that explains the NH payscale?
"Be the change you want to see in the world."<br />-Mahatma Gandhi <br /><br />
Daiceman  
#5 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 10:14:38 PM(UTC)
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Jethro Bodine wrote:

GS is usually entry level. Wage Grade follows.



Quite the opposite infact. Wage Grade jobs are for blue collar work (painting, maintnence), while General Schedule jobs are white collar work (hr, clerical, engineering).

Typically WG employees dont work exactally 40 hours a week, oftentimes they're the only people working overtime. Compaired to a GS employee who typically isnt allowed overtime and works "exactally" 40 hours.

Trey: the NH payscale is just a payband for acq coded personel. Basically one of the ways the gov't tried rewarding performance by giving managers flexibility increasing pay. Most places are phasing out non GS pay schedules though. If that happens the person is converted to an equivilant pay in the GS systemDaiceman2012-04-10 06:25:16
Trey  
#6 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 10:29:17 PM(UTC)
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Daiceman wrote:
Jethro Bodine wrote:

GS is usually entry level. Wage Grade follows.



Quite the opposite infact. Wage Grade jobs are for blue collar work (painting, maintnence), while General Schedule jobs are white collar work (hr, clerical, engineering).

Typically WG employees dont work exactally 40 hours a week, oftentimes they're the only people working overtime. Compaired to a GS employee who typically isnt allowed overtime and works "exactally" 40 hours.

Trey: the NH payscale is just a payband for acq coded personel. Basically one of the ways the gov't tried rewarding performance by giving managers flexibility increasing pay. Most places are phasing out non GS pay schedules though. If that happens the person is converted to an equivilant pay in the GS system
 

Daiceman,

 

Thanks for answering the question. I'm familiar with GS and WG, but had never heard of the acqdemo payscales untill I was finally capable of finding information on the web. You said most agencies are doing away with non GS pay scales correct? I'm considering a position that is NH-II with the Air Force, and if I accepted the position there would be a big chance that I would be converted to GS. At least that is what I'm wanting.

 

Again, thanks for answering.

Trey2012-04-10 06:38:02
"Be the change you want to see in the world."<br />-Mahatma Gandhi <br /><br />
Daiceman  
#7 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 11:38:54 PM(UTC)
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There is a good chance you would be converted eventually, but you have to remember this is the government. Different agencies have different directives and changes to those take years, if not longer to implement.

Theres not, much of a downside to taking a nh position. For all intents you can apply for any positions a GS person could, there could just be some extra work making sure you and the other angency calculate the conversion the same way.
fcarver  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, April 10, 2012 4:16:00 AM(UTC)
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NH-2 isn't necessarily supervisory. In most cases it isn't.

As far as pay, NH-2 caps out at GS-11. It's either GS-7 or GS-9 at the bottom, GS-11 Step 10 at the top.
 
You're still a federal employee, so no downside there. You can apply to any "status" candidate job you're qualified for.
 
In some ways it's better than GS, because you get a raise (or have the potential to get a raise) every year. You don't get stuck waiting 2-3 years between raises like you do as a GS at the higher steps.
 
Downside was already mentioned: If you apply to GS jobs, many HR specialists aren't used to seeing ACQDEMO paybands, so it can be alot of work to convince them what grade you're "equivalent" to, if you meet Time in Grade (TIG) etc.

Other than that, it's a pretty good system.
eye  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:19:30 AM(UTC)
eye

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Question?  How do I translate NC-03 into GS pay scale?  Contacted by the Naval Reseach Lab in DC for IS position.
TRW  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:48:17 PM(UTC)
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Only NSPS is going away.  There are plenty of other pay-for-performance pay systems that exist and will remain viable; acquisition demo pay being the one I am in and obviously most framiliar with.
SpankyFrost  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:08:24 PM(UTC)
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Jethro Bodine wrote:
NH-02 is supervisory.

 
 
Please STOP posting bogus information.  If you are unsure of the question, ask the OP for clarification.  Since you don't know and answered twice with bogus info, just stop posting.
 
As for the OP question, as others stated, the NSPS has been cancelled and most employees were converted back to GS.  However, in that NDAA 2009 it allowed certain categories/series to convert to their own special system.  I am aware of the intelligence and the acquisition for example.  They were allowed to create their own pay-for-performance system and that is what you are seeing.  There isn't just one website to find out what the grade equivelant is to the GS... so you may have to dig and research, or just ask the POC in the announcement.
 
Or you can type this into google.com "NH-05 equivelant to GS" you will get lots of hits, but the top hit tells you that that NH-05 is equivelant to the GS-05 thru 11.  They are not always one for one since their rules are different for increase, promotions and awards.  The best way to compare them is by salary.  Look at the salary range on the annoucement and compare that to a GS salary range.  That is what I go by when I see these mox-nox graded positions.
 
SpankyFrost2012-04-11 07:16:40
fcarver  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 5:47:02 AM(UTC)
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Also, yes, NSPS has gone away. AQDEMO was supposed to go away at the end of FY12, but it was extended in the NDAA (10 or 11, can't remember which) and extended through the end of FY17.

It is possible it'll be extended past that, but as is AQDEMO is good for the next 4-5 years. If it's not, it's likely that we will also transition back to GS. Who knows though, stuff changes every day when it comes to these personnel plans.
Trey  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2012 7:21:21 AM(UTC)
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So with AqDemo pay increases are not automatic like they are with the GS pay scale? Pay increases are at the supervisors discretion solely, or are there are factors that come into play? Also, is there the possibility that an employee under AqDemo could receive a pay raise yearly? 

Thank you.
"Be the change you want to see in the world."<br />-Mahatma Gandhi <br /><br />
fcarver  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2012 7:29:52 AM(UTC)
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Trey,

Yes, AQDEMO works like NSPS did. Every year you have performance appraisals. Normally, your performance assessment is tied to a pay increase (combination of a pay raise and/or bonus). So, yes, this happens every year. The amount of raise/bonus depends on your agency/command's budget for pay increases (normally called pay pools) each year. 

So, like you said, unlike GS, in AQDEMO pay raises are NOT automatic, not just based on time (like automatic Steps). Normally most employees will get a bonus, unless you are a poor performer, but it is not guaranteed/automatic.

Also, increases are not necessarily "at the supervisor's discretion" like you said, they are tied to performance. However, once you identify high performers, the there is some room for the supervisor to recommend how much of an increase you get.

Does that help at all?
Trey  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2012 7:40:49 AM(UTC)
Trey

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fcarver wrote:
Trey,

Yes, AQDEMO works like NSPS did. Every year you have performance appraisals. Normally, your performance assessment is tied to a pay increase (combination of a pay raise and/or bonus). So, yes, this happens every year. The amount of raise/bonus depends on your agency/command's budget for pay increases (normally called pay pools) each year. 

So, like you said, unlike GS, in AQDEMO pay raises are NOT automatic, not just based on time (like automatic Steps). Normally most employees will get a bonus, unless you are a poor performer, but it is not guaranteed/automatic.

Also, increases are not necessarily "at the supervisor's discretion" like you said, they are tied to performance. However, once you identify high performers, the there is some room for the supervisor to recommend how much of an increase you get.

Does that help at all?
Yes, for the most part that answers my questions, thank you. I'm familiar with the GS pay scale, but I'm considering a position that is on AqDemo. You said, "increases are not necessarily at the supervisor's discretion, they are tied to performance." So who rates an employees performance? Is it the supervisor? Are you currently on AqDemo? For some reason I can foresee there being certain abuses under this pay scale. Again, thanks for you information. 
"Be the change you want to see in the world."<br />-Mahatma Gandhi <br /><br />
fcarver  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, April 18, 2012 7:53:17 AM(UTC)
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Do you have performance appraisals under GS? We did under NSPS, and when NSPS ended some of my agency went back to GS and some went to AQDEMO. I actually went back to GS, and am now about to go over to AQDEMO :0). Lots of changes.

Anyway, you do your self-appraisal, your chance to brag on everything you did. You use "key words" to write your self-appraisal in such a way as to show that you "excelled". 

Anyway, then your supervisor assesses your appraisal. They make the recommendation on your "score". Under NSPS that was 0-5, on my current GS appraisal system it's also 0-5. AQDEMO is a bit different, but same concept.

Next, your "Higher level reviewer", typically your supervisor's supervisor, has to read your self-appraisal and your supervisor's appraisal of you, and approve the recommended "score".

Your "score" then is tied to your increase. Under NSPS, your score was directly tied to your increase. So, anyone rated a 3 got X% increase, everyone who got a 4 got a Y% increase. Etc, etc.
Under AQDEMO, again, it's different. You're agency (or the new organization you're looking at getting into) will offer AQDEMO training during inprocessing, so I don't want to get stuck in the mud here on details. 

Bottom line, you appraise your performance, your supervisor appraises your performance (many times using your self-appraisal as input, so do a good job), and your higher level reviewer approves the final "score". Then, a "performance based increase" is recommended based on score. The increase is a % of your BASE PAY (not including locality), and the total increase is split between a raise to base pay and a lump sum bonus.
SpankyFrost  
#17 Posted : Sunday, April 29, 2012 9:24:40 PM(UTC)
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Trey wrote:
...... For some reason I can foresee there being certain abuses under this pay scale. Again, thanks for you information. 
 
.lol  Yes exactly why Congress had it repealed in 2009...  BUT!  with the power that are in the Pentagon, they had lots of exceptions.  Gates and his band of hooligans were pretty slick in indentifying certain organizational missions.  Intelligence and Acquisition are two I am familiar... they convinced Congress that their operation and mission didn't justfy returning to GS and they pleaded for an alternative.  They got it!
 
Another thing really bad about the pay-pool system is that it is set by a budget.  Unlike us GS, if Congress and the POTUS allow us a raise.. it is global and is then added to the operating budget.  Whereas, these activities under the alternative programs are restricted to their set budget limit.  That may not mean much to you as an employee... except when it comes to exceptional and superior performance.  If everyone is superior to their objectives (which shouldn't be too darn difficult), then the supervisor can recommend that... BUT! it doesn't stop there.  All reviews have to go through a pay-pool.  And they have the secret power to adjust that supervisor's recommendation.  Sometimes it can be no one's fault except there just isn't enough funds in the pool.  I am sure it is rare this could happen, but the main point is that the pay-pool meets in secret and makes decisions in secret.  After they are done, THEN you will find out how you done and what you will get.
 
When we were in the NSPS (which is similar)... many people made out very well.  In fact quite a few made out like fat-rats... I know one guy that was a finance/accounting intern just a few years back... and now is sitting in a converted GS-15 Comptroller position...  There were no time-in-grade restrictions.  Many folks exceeded their GS step level when converted back.
bozo  
#18 Posted : Sunday, April 29, 2012 11:05:28 PM(UTC)
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Good luck...A lot of folks hated pay-for-performance type systems, but I think they're the best thing since sliced bread--if there is adequate oversight and regulation. I was in a NSPS position for 5 years with the Air Force and loved it! As you can see there are still plenty of alternative pay systems to the General Schedule, including the ACQDemo positions. I think you'll enjoy it..just remember to write EVERYTHING down..you'll need to refer to that information twice a year in most cases.
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