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jeff mullin  
#1 Posted : Thursday, August 2, 2012 11:30:13 PM(UTC)
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I have just been offered a job as a GS 9 step 4 ($56,777) my current position is a WG 10 step 5 ($56,725) my question is there any rules about the amount of pay I should receive in a promotion? The promotion is at the same agency. This raise is only 0.025 cents an hour more.

GSBS  
#2 Posted : Friday, August 3, 2012 1:11:08 AM(UTC)
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Perhaps this can help? I too have had similar questions if both positions pay the same at top pay, while the GS position would take 20 years and the WG position takes 5 years,  isn't the WG the higher paying pay scheme? Plus all shift work and extra pay (aside from OT) figures into your retirement with a WB slot. Most GS workers do not see any premium pay included in their High 3. I have been told no Federal positions can be classified as both a WG and GS because they are done by two different types of workers, which is not always trueSleepy http://www.opm.gov/oca/pay/html/PayExFWS.asp  GSBS2012-08-03 09:24:47
martyb  
#3 Posted : Friday, August 3, 2012 1:49:37 AM(UTC)

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First, it does not take 20 years to reach top step in GS, it takes 18 years from step 1 to step 10.  Second, it does not take 5 yrs to reach top step in WG, it takes 6 years to reach step 5.   There is a much bigger pay spread in the GS series than in the WG series.
 
That settled, there is no real way to compare any WG position & pay with a GS position and pay.  They are two different animals.  WG is generally blue collar/technicians, mechanics, laborers etc., and GS is generally white collar.  If it's really a promotion, then yes, there are some rules that would apply.  If it's a situation where you are a WG worker and applied for a GS job in a different type of job (would almost have to be) then you are doing that voluntarily, and as long as your new GS pay will be any amount above your old WG pay, that's pretty much all they have to do. 
 
Been there, done that.  I was a little luckier though...I did get $1300 going from WG-11 to GS-11, but only because my WG annual pay raise came just at the righ time to be included, otherwise I wouldnt' have gotten an increase.
martyb2012-08-03 09:58:40
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Knight  
#4 Posted : Friday, August 3, 2012 2:30:55 AM(UTC)

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Sadly that is how it goes. From OPM: http://www.opm.gov/oca/pay/HTML/Grade_PayRetention_EX.asp#10
 

Quote:
10. Pay Retention–Placement of a Federal Wage System (FWS) employee in a GS position (no geographic conversion)

In 2005, a WL–08, step 3, employee with an official worksite in Washington, DC ($22.71 per hour) is placed by management action in a GS–9 non–special rate position that is also located in Washington, DC.  The employee is not entitled to grade retention.

Step A:  Convert the WL hourly rate of pay to an annual rate of pay by multiplying the hourly rate by 2,087.  This annual rate is the employee‘s existing payable rate of basic pay in applying step B.
$22.71 &#times 2,087 = $47,396.

Step B:  Compare the existing payable rate identified in step A to the maximum rate of the highest applicable rate range for the grade of the employee‘s new position of record (after the event causing the pay retention entitlement).  Since the employee‘s existing payable rate is less than the maximum rate of the DC locality rate range, the employee is entitled to the lowest rate in that range that equals or exceeds his or her existing payable rate of basic pay.  After the employee‘s pay is set within the rate range, pay retention ceases to apply.  (See 5 CFR 536.304(b).)

Annual rate identified in step A = $47,396
Maximum rate of the new highest applicable rate range = $56,371 (GS–9, step 10, DC locality rate)
$47,396<$56,371
Lowest step on the GS–9 DC locality rate range that equals or exceeds $47,396 = step 4
The employee is entitled to the GS9, step 4, DC locality rate = $47,700

They go to the next highest step. GS does not do hourly except to help convert you. So your new base is the step that is just above your yearly amount of $56,725. Which in your case is $56,777

Knight2012-08-03 10:36:30
GSBS  
#5 Posted : Friday, August 3, 2012 5:15:04 AM(UTC)
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martyb wrote:
First, it does not take 20 years to reach top step in GS, it takes 18 years from step 1 to step 10.  Second, it does not take 5 yrs to reach top step in WG, it takes 6 years to reach step 5.   There is a much bigger pay spread in the GS series than in the WG series.
 
Yes I knew that but there are many factors involved.  My agency held a step increase over your head like you just won a prize. I believe it was you who tried to shove that that collar color crap thing at me before, and Happy with the WG band thing. I found out 125 occupations can share either classification and most of the answers provided here were virtually meaningless at least in my case. Applied for a WG position, got the position, same pay same title, except it was classified  GS and I would need to wait 18 years for the top step and pay. How is this fair?
martyb  
#6 Posted : Friday, August 3, 2012 7:24:33 AM(UTC)

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GSBS wrote:
martyb wrote:
First, it does not take 20 years to reach top step in GS, it takes 18 years from step 1 to step 10.  Second, it does not take 5 yrs to reach top step in WG, it takes 6 years to reach step 5.   There is a much bigger pay spread in the GS series than in the WG series.
 
I believe it was you who tried to shove that that collar color crap thing at me before, and Happy with the WG band thing.
 
No, honestly that wasn't me.  I'm not even sure what that means.  In 35 yrs I've finally figured out the govt. can do pretty much what they want, regardless of the written "rules".
 
update:  Oh, if you mean that WG is blue collar & GS is typically white collar, well that's true.  I didn't say either is better than the other, just that they're typically regarded in that way.  I didn't make that up.  That's the way it's interpreted. I was WG MUCH longer than I've been GS.   I'm not sure what you mean that I shoved anything at you, though.



martyb2012-08-03 15:33:45
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Knight  
#7 Posted : Friday, August 3, 2012 7:38:49 AM(UTC)

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In theory you could be moving up and always gpoing back to step 1. I went 9/11/12 and am still on step 3 of the GS 12. Years before i reach step 10. By then I plan to be a 13 or a 14. Or maybe I will just sit here and enjoy.
 
ANd yes the WG is supposed to be blue collar workers and the GS is white collar workers. These are archaic terms but still in use.
 

Quote:
 Most Federal civilian white-collar employees worked in the United States with the in professional, administrative, and support-type jobs, and commonly referred to as white-collar occupations...

Quote:
  blue-collar employees
were located in trades and labor occupations...
martyb  
#8 Posted : Friday, August 3, 2012 8:00:17 AM(UTC)

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That's me, Knight....Archaic!   lol
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Knight  
#9 Posted : Friday, August 3, 2012 9:33:12 AM(UTC)

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I even know where the two terms come from. If anyone cares to read some history.
 
GSBS  
#10 Posted : Friday, August 3, 2012 11:06:23 AM(UTC)
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Knight wrote:
I even know where the two terms come from. If anyone cares to read some history.
 
Wow all the collar colors! Who knew? Marty said the government can do what they basically want to do, so true.  My position offered no upward mobility to another grade, and both the WG announcement I applied under & the GS announcement were worded identically with the same starting and ending wages.  Didn't help that a newer technician was hired as an 11/10, and another was on Safe (Save?) pay from that same WG position I applied for. It's almost bait and switch, almost! GSBS2012-08-04 09:00:29
Knight  
#11 Posted : Friday, August 3, 2012 8:58:12 PM(UTC)

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To me the collar color and even the need for a tie are obsolete. But then according to the article I am a no collar worker (IT).
 
And some of the trades make more money then the "professionals." I value a good electrician or plumber over another corporate drone.
Scott Dickins&#111;n  
#12 Posted : Monday, August 6, 2012 2:58:37 AM(UTC)
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Save pay is usually only granted when the job change is not your choice AND you cannot be fit into the salary range based on your current pay. There is no "safe" pay. The same term is also mis-used when talking about save grade. Save grade (grade retention) is where you have been placed in another job through agency direction and it is a lower grade then what you currently are. It gives you some rights in returning to a similiar position when one opens up, but you have to apply and be found qualified. This happened to a friend of mine. She was a GS-9, her position was abolished and she was transferred to a GS-4. She was given save grade and save pay. Save grade was only for 2 years. In that time frame of 2 years she applied for a GS-9 position, was found qualified and was given the position.
nodog  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, August 8, 2012 9:31:08 PM(UTC)

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In reference to the WG - GS issue. I started out in my Civil Service career as a WG and after ten years put in and accepted a GS position. When I accepted the GS job I went from a WG-10 Step-5 to a GS-7 Step-9. With little exception, I was doing the exact same job initially and then advanced to higher responsibility and skills as I went up my Career Ladder. The hiring command took the next higher pay to my WG pay and then moved up two steps which ended up to be a GS-7 Step-9 at the time. I don't know if they were required to do so but they did it that way. If they hadn't I would not have accepted the job because I was making about 800 hours of overtiime a year in the WG job and the GS job had little opportunity for overtime. Because the GS job was on a "Career Ladder, 7/8/9/10/11", it was very benificial to me to be on the top end of the steps and I ended the ladder as a GS-11 Step-6. The command further helped me out by giving me a QSI at the same time that I took my final ladder move and I got a Step-7 as a result. The year following that I put in and recieved a GS-12 position and continued doing the same job at the same desk. What a great deal for me! With the help of NSPS system I managed to go beyond that and am now on "Save Pay" in GS-13 position at a GS-14 (nearly Step-5) pay. What a deal!

    Basic point is many of the WG and GS jobs are actually doing the same function at a given level but most of the GS jobs eventually grow beyond what the WG job is.

    
GSBS  
#14 Posted : Thursday, August 9, 2012 1:10:36 AM(UTC)
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Thank you nodog for your post. I have been told the strangest things on this forum when it came to the difference in pay and duties. I will say if you have two identical announcements (both with the same starting & ending pay) with NO chance of upward movement, one covered under GS, and one covered under WG, you would be at top pay 12 years sooner with the WG position. The difference in money is startling. I was made aware of this fact during my first week in Government from co workers on Save pay, and one who entered as an 11-10 because of previous work experience doing the same job in D.C.
 
 
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