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Draconian  
#1 Posted : Thursday, October 10, 2013 2:19:39 PM(UTC)
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      I saw this on the DoD CAP website & my jaw dropped.   They actually have a version of DragonSpeech that has been specialized to work with their very secure system, which means it'll actually be functional! I am thoroughly impressed.
      I'd say on a scale of 1 to 10, Dept of Navy & Marine Corps rate a 15 on the 'committed to inclusion' & 'gives a damn' scales!!   
~Leave everyplace better than you found it.
Hanif  
#2 Posted : Friday, October 11, 2013 12:26:14 AM(UTC)

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And NMCI provides a usb headset with integrated Audio Circuit so that you don't have to rely on the miserable one within the computers. Only down side is that you'll need to keep your recognition file on an external or your H: drive so it transfers with you to other computers.
Draconian  
#3 Posted : Friday, October 11, 2013 2:12:41 AM(UTC)
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    Thank you, Hanif!! I didn't realize my recognition file could be portable even in secure systems. That is excellently useful information!
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Knight  
#4 Posted : Friday, October 11, 2013 2:37:07 AM(UTC)

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I installed DragonSpeak the other day and had a chuckle over this.

Quote:
The accents you can choose from are: Southern US—Most of Southern United States, including Texas


Didn't know you could train your dragon for understanding the folk from Dixie.

Edit: Fixed spelling error.Knight2013-10-15 05:58:36
Draconian  
#5 Posted : Friday, October 11, 2013 11:32:50 AM(UTC)
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    Think it'll translate for me? :)
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vetmft  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, October 16, 2013 4:19:08 AM(UTC)

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I work for the VA, my Dragon version is old, not compatible with the rest of my computer or browser. Had a horrible time getting my accomodations in the first place, they refused to let me access CAP, gave me a manual timer instead of a PDA, etc. Finally I gave up, at least temporarily. Sounds like the Navy is the place to be~~~
Knight  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, October 16, 2013 4:42:00 AM(UTC)

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odd, my friend at the VBA said that their IT is pushing all reasonable accommodations to CAP these days. She ordered Dragon 11 and a keyboard just before the GOV shutdown. She had to order these through/with HR but she did it at the CAP website.
Draconian  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, October 16, 2013 11:21:28 AM(UTC)
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    I read somewhere that CAP is now the designated Assistive Tech supplier/source for all the DoD, & possibly all federal agencies as well. The article said the change is designed to save costs & increase efficiencies (bulk purchase discounts, specialized staff well versed in available AT, etc).
     I'm hoping this will help AT requests be filled quicker, with better compatibility & results, and increase our available AT options.   
     The wheels of change are often slow, but they do turn :)
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frankgonzalez  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:07:08 PM(UTC)
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All my interaction with CAP (for myself and assisting other employees) have all been positive. And there is are CAP smart phones apps as well to browse and see what is available.
You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
Draconian  
#10 Posted : Thursday, July 16, 2015 5:41:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MBADawn Go to Quoted Post
I saw this on the DoD CAP website & my jaw dropped.They actually have a version of DragonSpeech that has been specialized to work with their very secure system, which means it'll actually be functional! I am thoroughly impressed.
I'd say on a scale of 1 to 10, Dept of Navy & Marine Corps rate a 15 on the 'committed to inclusion' & 'gives a damn' scales!!


Update - Dragon is not functional on this network!

Please don't accept a position thinking Dragon works because of this thread or the 'NMCI certified' claim!

I expected it to work, too. It doesn't.

If I had known then what I know now.... I hope to prevent anyone else from going through this horrible, disheartening ordeal that I've been dragged through for the past year & a half.
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Hanif  
#11 Posted : Friday, July 17, 2015 6:15:31 AM(UTC)

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MBADawn,

I want to make sure you know that you're being jerked around by your command, as NMCI does support Dragon. I'll give you some specific information, but if your CTR/IAM is not supporting you, you should reach out to the NGEN/NMCI contacts.

So prior NMCI contract the CLIN was CLIN_3374FT/4210, software instance 3_DRAGONNATRLSPKING_10_A2K, (For Dragon Naturally Speaking 10). Came at a cost of ~$597, retail box for "Federal Government Use Only", along with a USB powered headset.

Now with the new NGEN contract and new software it's a different process, you need a CLIN 0023, Commercial off the Shelf (COTS) software MAC to be installed, with the asset tag of the machine (Admin ES/C under NET). As of 5/22/2015, Dragon Naturally Speaking 12.5 is the approved software. I'm assuming your on the network so you should be able to access the homeport here (https://www.homeport.navy.mil/services/ngen-nmci-core-build/computer-electronic-accommodation-program/)

If your CTR/IAM is clueless, I'd reach out to the PMW 205 POC listed on that page, or the End User Computing contact.

I've purchased these as the CTR for my users, I've used them myself and I've been on NMCI/NGEN for 6 years with functioning CAP software.
Draconian  
#12 Posted : Friday, July 17, 2015 4:59:16 PM(UTC)
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Seriously? !?! You're the first person to say it works for them

PMW 205 joined the effort to get Dragon functional several months ago.

We've been through 11 computers, 7 microphones (I even brought in my best ones from home for testing purposes for a while), & 4 versions of Dragon - 10.1, 12, 12.5, & now 13.

It's taken over a year & a half to get to the point where they understand the issues. I've logged the heck out of them, by hand, which has hurt like hell, but it's what it took to stop being blown off, or told "well, there must be something wrong with your voice" - as if that were plausible, & was supposedly the cause of the initial 'file XYZ not found' error messages & machine 'blue screens of death'.

Every single version, on every computer has had the same issues. Instead of recognition improving, it gets WORSE over time, it can't remember custom words (not even NMCI, or how to spell my name, no matter HOW many times I train it!), commands execute sporadically if at all, & the correction window flashes for a millisecond before disappearing - without ever letting me correct the word!

These are just a few of the errors. And I'm only on the network when anything is functional/not in use for testing. (Generally means I'm using the touch keyboard to view email & perform whatever logging or other tasks I am able to do before my hands 'lock up'/stop moving.

I need Dragon to be fully functional, but it hasn't been.

Do you use it for navigation? Do you use it outside of work too?

Edited by user Saturday, July 18, 2015 6:26:00 AM(UTC)  | Reason: correction

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Draconian  
#13 Posted : Sunday, July 19, 2015 7:16:39 AM(UTC)
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As keeps being the case - Others are only using Dragon for purely dictation, generally in word processing programs, as the Dragon program's other basic, inherent functions, such as navigational commands, have never been operational in this environment.

There needs to be a warning on the DoD CAP website for the 'NMCI certified Dragon' to the effect of "This program's only supported function is limited usage of dictation, in a limited number of word processing programs, without the 'correct that' or other correction functions being supported. Navigation, 'learning over time', & all other basic program functions are not available/activated, & will not be."

And any attempts to get it functional will result in being told to choose between 'dismissal or reassignment outside of NMCI & your career field' (for 'medical inability to perform duties' without a fully functional Dragon program as a reasonable accommodation) & end your career.

I regret ever accepting this position. I never stood a chance of having an actually functional Dragon program here. No one does.

Edited by user Friday, July 24, 2015 5:43:59 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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SDAnalyst  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:14:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MBADawn Go to Quoted Post

As kerps being the case - Others are only using Dragon for purely dictation, generally in word processing programs, as the Dragon program's other basic, inherent functions, such as navigational commands, have never been operational in this environment.

There needs to be a warning on the DoD CAP website for the 'NMCI certified Dragon' to the effect of "This program's only supported function is limited usage of dictation, in a limited number of word processing programs, without the 'correct that' or other correction functions being supported. Navigation, 'learning over time', & all other basic program functions are not available/activated, & will not be."

And any attempts to get it functional will result in being told to choose between 'dismissal or reassignment outside of NMCI & your career field' (for 'medical inability to perform duties' without a fully functional Dragon program as a reasonable accommodation) & end your career.

I regret ever accepting this position. I never stood a chance of having an actually functional Dragon program here. No one does.

MBA Dawn, you cannot be "dismissed" from Federal Service. They can attempt to issue a Removal action (Notice of Proposed Removal), but with nearly 3 years of service, you have appeal rights. With all your documentation and the fact you were hired with a known Disability, I think they are going to have a hard time justifying why they are removing you now. They cannot arbitrarily reassign you, either. Whoever is telling you this is banking on the fact you are a new Fed and probably don't know your appeal rights. I am not talking about the EEO route, that is a long road and you probably know about that already, based on previous posts. I am talking about Administrative appeals, up to and including MSPB and suit in Federal court.

Sorry you are having so many problems in this job. I would truly be looking for a new job.
thanks 2 users thanked SD Analyst for this useful post.
GWPDA on 7/21/2015(UTC), Draconian on 7/21/2015(UTC)
Draconian  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, July 21, 2015 11:15:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pat in SD Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MBADawn Go to Quoted Post

As kerps being the case - Others are only using Dragon for purely dictation, generally in word processing programs, as the Dragon program's other basic, inherent functions, such as navigational commands, have never been operational in this environment.

There needs to be a warning on the DoD CAP website for the 'NMCI certified Dragon' to the effect of "This program's only supported function is limited usage of dictation, in a limited number of word processing programs, without the 'correct that' or other correction functions being supported. Navigation, 'learning over time', & all other basic program functions are not available/activated, & will not be."

And any attempts to get it functional will result in being told to choose between 'dismissal or reassignment outside of NMCI & your career field' (for 'medical inability to perform duties' without a fully functional Dragon program as a reasonable accommodation) & end your career.

I regret ever accepting this position. I never stood a chance of having an actually functional Dragon program here. No one does.

MBA Dawn, you cannot be "dismissed" from Federal Service. They can attempt to issue a Removal action (Notice of Proposed Removal), but with nearly 3 years of service, you have appeal rights. With all your documentation and the fact you were hired with a known Disability, I think they are going to have a hard time justifying why they are removing you now. They cannot arbitrarily reassign you, either. Whoever is telling you this is banking on the fact you are a new Fed and probably don't know your appeal rights. I am not talking about the EEO route, that is a long road and you probably know about that already, based on previous posts. I am talking about Administrative appeals, up to and including MSPB and suit in Federal court.

Sorry you are having so many problems in this job. I would truly be looking for a new job.


How do I file an administrative appeal? I was told 'accept reassignment or you're fired, as of today, for not doing your job'(without Dragon being functional, I CAN'T, & they know it!).

And this supposed 'reassignment'? They 'can't guarantee we can find anything', & 'if we can't, you'll be dismissed the moment we can't'.- Not IF, mind you.

No one gives a damn what the law says. That's why anyone who needs Dragon functional is terminated or 'reassigned', & THEN terminated.

I can't afford even a consultation with a lawyer. This whole thing is horrible.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:12:37 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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hopie  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, July 22, 2015 1:39:12 PM(UTC)
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MBADawn,

Here is a link to an agency that provides a free consult:

http://www.eeoadvocates.com

I am just going by memory, but didn't you say you were a new employee or have been there less than 3 years? Have you had a prior federal government job to add onto the length of service?

Pat- does she need 3 years of service to file a complaint with MSPB? I heard it is a better route to go than the EEO process.

Edited by user Wednesday, July 22, 2015 1:39:59 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked hopie for this useful post.
Draconian on 7/22/2015(UTC)
Draconian  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, July 22, 2015 5:55:17 PM(UTC)
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Thank you Pat & Hopie.

Every day is a roller coaster, but the downs have been deeper & longer than the tiny spikes upwards for far too long.

I am applying to other positions like crazy, but no one anywhere in the federal government can confirm that Dragon works, commands & all, at a single agency or even at a single activity.

Hundreds of potential incoming Schedule A hires throughout the government, Wounded Warriors returning home & seeking work, & not one agency has the primary dexterity disabilities assistive tech, DragonSpeech, functional?

They've had Dragon functional on the International Space Station since 2005 for goodness sake!

Edited by user Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:07:55 AM(UTC)  | Reason: spelling (Android & FedSoup do not play very well together)

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SDAnalyst  
#18 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2015 10:00:27 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MBADawn Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Pat in SD Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MBADawn Go to Quoted Post

As kerps being the case - Others are only using Dragon for purely dictation, generally in word processing programs, as the Dragon program's other basic, inherent functions, such as navigational commands, have never been operational in this environment.

There needs to be a warning on the DoD CAP website for the 'NMCI certified Dragon' to the effect of "This program's only supported function is limited usage of dictation, in a limited number of word processing programs, without the 'correct that' or other correction functions being supported. Navigation, 'learning over time', & all other basic program functions are not available/activated, & will not be."

And any attempts to get it functional will result in being told to choose between 'dismissal or reassignment outside of NMCI & your career field' (for 'medical inability to perform duties' without a fully functional Dragon program as a reasonable accommodation) & end your career.

I regret ever accepting this position. I never stood a chance of having an actually functional Dragon program here. No one does.

MBA Dawn, you cannot be "dismissed" from Federal Service. They can attempt to issue a Removal action (Notice of Proposed Removal), but with nearly 3 years of service, you have appeal rights. With all your documentation and the fact you were hired with a known Disability, I think they are going to have a hard time justifying why they are removing you now. They cannot arbitrarily reassign you, either. Whoever is telling you this is banking on the fact you are a new Fed and probably don't know your appeal rights. I am not talking about the EEO route, that is a long road and you probably know about that already, based on previous posts. I am talking about Administrative appeals, up to and including MSPB and suit in Federal court.

Sorry you are having so many problems in this job. I would truly be looking for a new job.


How do I file an administrative appeal? I was told 'accept reassignment or you're fired, as of today, for not doing your job'(without Dragon being functional, I CAN'T, & they know it!).

And this supposed 'reassignment'? They 'can't guarantee we can find anything', & 'if we can't, you'll be dismissed the moment we can't'.- Not IF, mind you.

No one gives a damn what the law says. That's why anyone who needs Dragon functional is terminated or 'reassigned', & THEN terminated.

I can't afford even a consultation with a lawyer. This whole thing is horrible.


Very sorry, I didn't see this until now. Next time send me a PM if I don't answer in a day. You need to contact Human Resources for your command and tell them you want to file an Administrative Grievance. I will look for the exact Navy instruction, but you may be able to find it before me. Someone is just telling you that they will fire you because they assume you don't know better.
Edit: Here is a link to the Navy Administrative Grievance System instruction: http://doni.daps.dla.mil...d%20Services/12771.2.pdf

It is: SECNAVINST 12771.2
30 July 2010

Edited by user Thursday, July 30, 2015 10:11:09 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Link to DON Instruction

SDAnalyst  
#19 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2015 10:02:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: hopie Go to Quoted Post
MBADawn,

Here is a link to an agency that provides a free consult:

http://www.eeoadvocates.com

I am just going by memory, but didn't you say you were a new employee or have been there less than 3 years? Have you had a prior federal government job to add onto the length of service?

Pat- does she need 3 years of service to file a complaint with MSPB? I heard it is a better route to go than the EEO process.


She has to have a removal action taken against her or a suspension of more than 14 days to appeal to MSPB. And no, she doesn't need career status. She does need to be off Probation, with career-conditional status.
Draconian  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, September 01, 2015 12:35:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pat in SD Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hopie Go to Quoted Post
MBADawn,

Pat- does she need 3 years of service to file a complaint with MSPB? I heard it is a better route to go than the EEO process.


She has to have a removal action taken against her or a suspension of more than 14 days to appeal to MSPB. And no, she doesn't need career status. She does need to be off Probation, with career-conditional status.



I am career conditional, but my 'involuntary constructive suspension' (aka - being placed on 'administrative leave' & told I'm to be terminated before the end of the fiscal year "if another position" isn't found) has become part of my EEO Discrimination & Retaliation case.

Once chosen, only one avenue can be pursued - either MSPB or EEO (I've learned).

My understanding is that I can pursue my imminent termination via MSPB or EEO, once I have the paperwork in hand.

The kicker for me is that the actionable path that would make Dragon functional in this environment and on this network has been figured out.

Functionality was within reach, achievable, accomplish-able.

I had believed that it would finally happen - that I would have this necessary tool to complete my work with, & so would everyone else who needed it.

The point that stopped all progress was 'who should be responsible for paying' for the necessary troubleshooting support from the manufacturer (or a third party vendor, which is also an option) to finish the job of making it functional, & helping make sure it stays functional.

So close to having the vital tool I'd been led to believe I'd have from day one.

But 'blowing the whistle' that Dragon isn't functional there, & reportedly never has been, results in being targeted for termination. I was warned of this by a few internal people, but didn't, couldn't, believe it was true.

Not reporting the non functionality/non accommodation = being terminated for non performance, due to 'not having requested/reported the nonfunctionality of the accessibility tools with which to complete the work'

Reporting the non functionality/non accommodation because you very, very much WANT to perform your work = being terminated for non performance, reportedly due to 'medical inabilty to perform position duties', with those perpetrating the termination being fully aware that you've never been provided the functional accessibility tools with which to complete the work

This second option comes with the added stress and full knowledge that the termination is being executed by management in retaliation for daring to request functional reasonable accommodations, persistently, & expecting the issues to be corrected & the laws to be complied with.

And the knowledge that this exact same sequence of events has happened who knows how many times before, & is guaranteed to happen again, to yet another professionally capable, qualified person who just happens to be disabled, & who believes the advertised honoring of civil rights laws and various federal agencies' upper managements' 'statements of commitment to inclusion' are true.

Unfortunately, I've learned that logic, & law, are completely ignored. Or stomped on. Viciously & openly. And I've learned that those 'statements of commitment' are unenforced, political sound bites, with zero commitment behind them.

The contractor IT Execs in charge of making and keeping Dragon functional?

They "have no intention" of making Dragon functional on their computers, nor on their network. And never did, apparently.

They have summarily dismissed all requests for Dragon to be functional, & to provide the accessible access that the ADA & Rehab Act (among other laws) supposedly 'guarantee'.

Upon it being pointed out that this is a violation of multiple laws (& citing the specific laws' clauses) -

"Well, you're just one person."


15.2 million - US population with Dexterity Limitations/Limited use of hand(s)
Per the U.S. Census, 2007 (although this figure is considered conservatively low, as "most people don't self identify as disabled")

I wonder how many people before me made these same requests, who thought the federal government, of all employers, would honor & follow the federal laws that render such discriminatory actions unlawful, who sought to have the accessibility tools with which to serve their country, honestly believing the tools would be provided (after all, it's LAW - federal agencies are REQUIRED to provide functional reasonable accommodations....), only to face blatant discrimination, committed openly and repeatedly, unchecked & uncorrected by those with the power to do so, were told "You're just one person", & then were terminated, unlawfully, yes, but still terminated & their lives decimated all the same.

A completely correctable, solvable issue, yet it remains as the impetus of this perpetual cycle of futility, waste, & debasement.
~Leave everyplace better than you found it.
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