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BRAC - Base Realignment and Closure

The effects of a base closure can be huge - causing much stress and questions. This forum can help with the sharing of ideas, suggestions, and answers of those affected (currently or in the past) by BRAC.

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Charley  
#1 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 8:46:37 AM(UTC)
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I am a permanent federal employee with 5 years of federal service. I am a military retiree receiving regular (20 yrs of service) military retirement pay and VA disability payments. Due to force-realignment within my organization (DOD)I am going to receive a “Management reassignment” (moving my position same grade and series)outside my local commuting area to another State. I understand that I can turn down the assignment, but will be involuntarily terminated. I seem to meet all the requirements for “Severance” pay, but not sure what is meant by, “and cannot be eligible for an immediate annuity from a federal civilian retirement system or from the uniformed services.”

Does my being a military retiree disqualify me from being able to receive the severance payment?


Severance Pay
If you are about to be separated from a permanent position involuntarily and through no fault of your own, you will likely be eligible for severance pay. To be eligible, you must not have refused an offer of a position that is (1) in the same commuting area, (2) in the same agency, and (3) no more than two grades below your current grade level. In addition, you must have been employed for at least 12 continuous months, and cannot be eligible for an immediate annuity from a federal civilian retirement system or from the uniformed services. Also, you must not be receiving workers' compensation benefits for wage loss due to an on-the-job injury.
mudpie  
#2 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 10:45:17 PM(UTC)

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Why not just take the PCS to the new location? It's paid. What they are saying is you have a job, its now at San Diego and we will pay to move you. What you are saying is, but I am not going to move, so pay me to leave.

You are volunteering to resign essentially, so IMO no severance is warranted.
Joe Dedman  
#3 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 11:31:13 PM(UTC)
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5 years with the civil service, your severance pay will be practically nothing, I have 22 years and my severance pay is at 47 weeks. I have never used it. so it doesnt equate to one full year or wahtever you think it is. I am thinking you will only get 5 weeks of severance pay.
"Basic severance pay allowance
The basic severance pay allowance consists of-

•One week of pay at the rate of basic pay for the position held by the employee at the time of separation for each full year of creditable service through 10 years;
•Two weeks of pay at the rate of basic pay for the position held by the employee at the time of separation for each full year of creditable service beyond 10 years; and
•Twenty-five percent of the otherwise applicable amount for each full 3 months of creditable service beyond the final full year.
The weekly rate of basic pay for employees with variable work schedules is determined based on the weekly average for the last position held by the employee during the 26 biweekly pay periods immediately preceding separation. The regulations at 5 CFR 550.707(b) provide specific instructions on calculating the weekly rate for various types of variable work schedules, including part-time work and seasonal work. For information on how to calculate the approximate amount of severance pay for employees with non-variable work schedules, please see the "Severance Pay Estimation Worksheets (external link)"
Ignore deddude, he's not really giving legitimate advice.
hustonj  
#4 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 11:57:06 PM(UTC)
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47 weeks for 22 years of service? Given the rules that you posted:

One week per year for 10 years is 10 weeks.
Two weeks per year for 12 years is 24 weeks.

10+24 is 34 weeks.

I think your math is off somewhere . . ..
mudpie  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 26, 2013 3:28:08 AM(UTC)

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Plus an additional 10 percent if you are over age 40, BUT:

Here are the generics on severance:

1. You are separated.
2. You have not refused an offer to be placed into a position within two pay grades of your current position, and
3. You have served at least twelve months continuously.

The original post implies that the OP is turning down a job offer in another state and they are in the same grade after the move. Some agencies may deny the severance claim based on the job rejection. IMO.
Charley  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, November 26, 2013 1:23:36 PM(UTC)
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Yeah...I calculated it at 5 weeks. I was planning on resigning anyway, don't really need a job. But figure I might as well get 5 weeks free paid vacation.
Joe Dedman  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2013 12:21:41 AM(UTC)
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your right its 37 weeks
Ignore deddude, he's not really giving legitimate advice.
mudpie  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 1:41:13 AM(UTC)

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Was your severance approved even though you rejected the job offer?
Charley  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 12:02:50 PM(UTC)
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mudpie wrote:
Was your severance approved even though you rejected the job offer?


Sheesh mudpie....then REASON you receive severance is because you REJECTED offer outside of your normal commuting area. Nothing to "approve" its the law.


The agency must use the 5 CFR Part 752 adverse action regulations when separating an employee who declines a directed reassignment to a position in a different geographic area. Such an employee is eligible for most of the benefits that are available to a displaced employee separated by reduction in force (intra- and interagency hiring priority, severance pay, discontinued service retirement, etc.). An employee who declines reassignment to a position in the same geographic area as the present position is not eligible for any career transition assistance or other benefits.
Pat M  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, December 4, 2013 12:19:19 PM(UTC)
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But the OP said he is currently receiving military retired pay. That makes him Ineligible for Severance pay. At age 62, with 5 years of service, he can apply for a deferred retirement. No, it won't be much, but it will be something. Pat in SD2013-12-04 20:28:24
buckeyeguy2010  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, February 5, 2014 10:08:08 PM(UTC)

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Pat in SD: I think you got it slightly wrong (& incomplete). With his five years of civilian service, he can take deferred retirement (DR) if he is not yet age 62 and he does not want to give up his military retirement (MR) in order to combine HIS military & civilian service for an immediate civilian retirement (CR) and therefore be able (if otherwise qualified) to be able to retain eligibility for FEHBP insurance. If he takes the DR, then he would lose eligibility to continue his FEHBP insurance but could continue to receive his MR, which could continue after he could start receiving his DR also at age 62. At age 65, he could start to receive Medicare. (NOTE: If he already is age 62 (or would be age 62 by the time he actually separates), then he could apply for CR when he actually separates without giving up his MR and could continue his FEHBP eligibility also.) buckeyeguy20102014-02-06 06:19:49
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Pat M  
#12 Posted : Thursday, February 6, 2014 3:19:47 AM(UTC)
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buckeyeguy2010 wrote:
Pat in SD: I think you got it slightly wrong (& incomplete). With his five years of civilian service, he can take deferred retirement (DR) if he is not yet age 62 and he does not want to give up his military retirement (MR) in order to combine HIS military & civilian service for an immediate civilian retirement (CR) and therefore be able (if otherwise qualified) to be able to retain eligibility for FEHBP insurance. If he takes the DR, then he would lose eligibility to continue his FEHBP insurance but could continue to receive his MR, which could continue after he could start receiving his DR also at age 62. At age 65, he could start to receive Medicare. (NOTE: If he already is age 62 (or would be age 62 by the time he actually separates), then he could apply for CR when he actually separates without giving up his MR and could continue his FEHBP eligibility also.)
He never said anything about combining his military time with Fed time. With only 5 years of Federal Service, it would be unwise to do that. At age 62, he can draw his deferred Federal retirement, as well as his Military Retired Pay. He does not have to give either up, as long as he has not "bought back" his Military time. If he has, then yes, he would have to give up the Military Retired Pay in order to receive his combined Military/Fed retirement.

It is true that if he just resigns now, and waits to take his Deferred FERS retirement at age 62, he will not be able to keep his FEGLI or Health Benefits in retirement. But he is retired military, and has TriCare for health benefits and probably still retains his SGLI. Most all the retired military I work with don't even carry FEHB, they just use TriCare.Pat in SD2014-02-06 11:28:41
icanzz  
#13 Posted : Friday, May 2, 2014 6:31:45 AM(UTC)
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Point of interest. I ask HRO directly if I would be receiving severance even though I am a military retiree…HRO told me I would receive severance pay.
Knight  
#14 Posted : Friday, May 2, 2014 7:10:41 AM(UTC)

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Quote:
HRO told me I would receive severance pay.


Quote:
cannot be eligible for an immediate annuity from a federal civilian retirement system or from the uniformed services


HR could be wrong. The second quotes makes me wonder if they are right or not. You might ask Ed Z, he is pretty savvy about things.
thanks 1 user thanked for this useful post.
SD Analyst on 5/2/2014(UTC)
icanzz  
#15 Posted : Friday, May 2, 2014 8:12:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Knight Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
HRO told me I would receive severance pay.


Quote:
cannot be eligible for an immediate annuity from a federal civilian retirement system or from the uniformed services


HR could be wrong.

Could not agree more with statement...but apparently according to HR CPAC...there is a difference between military retirement pay and military annuity. They even did the $$ calculation for me.
Knight  
#16 Posted : Friday, May 2, 2014 9:25:37 AM(UTC)

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Then good luck in your future path. Does this block you from coming back to the GOV? I remember some agreements have those kind of staements, "Cannot work for X for Y years (or ever)"
hustonj  
#17 Posted : Friday, May 2, 2014 10:34:53 AM(UTC)
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Yes, I seem to remember when I was being hired there being a big conversation over whether somebody receivng a military retirement was receiving a military annuity or not.

The answer then was "No, it is not the same thing," so if it wasn't the same thing then, it shouldn't be the same thing now.
icanzz  
#18 Posted : Monday, May 5, 2014 5:32:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Knight Go to Quoted Post
Then good luck in your future path. Does this block you from coming back to the GOV? I remember some agreements have those kind of staements, "Cannot work for X for Y years (or ever)"


Does not STOP you from coming back....but if you come back within 5 years you have to pay severance back to govt.
SDAnalyst  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, May 6, 2014 9:41:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: icanzz Go to Quoted Post
Does not STOP you from coming back....but if you come back within 5 years you have to pay severance back to govt.

That is the case in a VSIP (Voluntary Separation Incentive Pay), which is NOT the same as severance pay. A VSIP is $25,000 in cash for you to leave voluntarily, either by retirement (if eligible) or just by resigning. Your Agency must have received approval from OPM to offer a VSIP. It is generally used to reduce the size of the workforce. If you accept a VSIP, and want to come back to work for the gov't. before 5 years is up, every penny must be repaid prior to your first day of re-employment. http://www.opm.gov/polic...tion-incentive-payments/

Severance Pay is NOT a VSIP, and is NOT required to be repaid. Severance Pay is for employees "involuntarily separated" from employment. The severance pay simply stops (if still being paid). The determination as to whether the employee has "declined a reasonable offer of employment" is up to the Agency. Please see: http://www.opm.gov/polic...ct-sheets/severance-pay/ However, based upon what I read there, anyone "eligible to receive an immediate annuity from the Uniformed Services" is not entitled to Severance Pay. The definition of "involuntarily separated" includes people who resign after being advised they will be terminated after a transfer of function situation.

Resignations and Involuntary Separation

If an employee expects to be involuntarily separated and resigns, the employee is considered to have been involuntarily separated if he or she resigns after receiving a specific written notice that he or she will be involuntarily separated by a particular action effective on a particular date; or a general written notice of reduction in force or transfer of functions which-
•Is issued by a properly authorized agency official;
•Announces that the agency has decided to abolish, or transfer to another commuting area, all positions in the competitive area by a particular date (no more than 1 year after the date of the notice); and
•States that, for all employees in that competitive area, a resignation following receipt of the notice constitutes an involuntary separation for severance pay purposes.

Edited by user Tuesday, May 6, 2014 9:47:21 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Go saints  
#20 Posted : Sunday, May 18, 2014 5:57:04 PM(UTC)
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If you accept a new position no more than two grades lower, are you kept in pay retention or suffer a pay cut?
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