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igotthis24  
#1 Posted : Sunday, January 12, 2014 3:39:48 AM(UTC)
igotthis24

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I am currently applying for GS-09 positions. I am coming across many postings that appear to be for a straight 9 with no ladder, but do list a promotion potential of 11 or 12 & look like this:
SERIES & GRADE:     GS-xxxx-09
PROMOTION POTENTIAL:12

So how would this work if hired vs the ladder? I've been in two ladder positions and as you all know, after 1 year TIG I was eligible for the next grade in the ladder 5-6 and 6-7 and it just took my supervisor's approval & was near automatic as long as I performed at an adequate level. Also, the supervisor was notified automatically of my eligibility for promotion without me even having to mention it. If there is no ladder would you be eligible to go from 9-11 after 1 year and 11-12 after 2 years, with the same standards? Or would this be something much more subjective where the supervisor would have to initiate the promotion with their own discretion and the timing of their choosing? Thanks in advance.

EDIT: here is an example https://www.usajobs.gov/...2300igotthis242014-01-16 13:01:40
igotthis24  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2014 10:59:06 AM(UTC)
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Bump. Anyone?
cosntwine  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2014 11:40:27 AM(UTC)
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Nope you would have to compete for the next promo
russ4h  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2014 8:02:58 PM(UTC)
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I have noticed this on some job postings as well and I'm interested in knowing how it works in job that isn't a ladder position but has "promotion potential of X." My best guess is that ladder positions offer non-competitive promotion to next level and jobs that have promotion potential but no ladder are a competitive thing where there is one position at the next level and management has to pick who gets it.

I was offered a position before that was seemingly a straight GS-6 but under the promotion potential section of the advertisement, it said GS-7. I did ask the HR person at the time how the promotion would work and they indicated that I would be eligible for the promotion after a year but didn't say if it would be automatic like a ladder position. Although from what I read here, ladder positions aren't automatic either.

At my current agency, there was a lady that was in a GS-9 position with promotion potential to a GS-11 and after her year was up, management did not promote her to the 11. She had to apply to GS-11 jobs on her own and switch agencies to get her GS-11 (which is silly because her position is still vacant and everyone else had to take on her work causing deficiencies in overall quality). russ4h2014-01-16 04:47:30
HR Bubba  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2014 8:45:31 PM(UTC)
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I have not seen the vacancy announcement you are referring to, so take this for what it's worth. It sounds like the vacancy announcement just wasn't set up right and that the position you are talking about is in fact a career ladder position. The statements you made regarding career ladder promotions not being automatic is correct.
igotthis24  
#6 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2014 12:22:08 AM(UTC)
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HR Bubba wrote:
I have not seen the vacancy announcement you are referring to, so take this for what it's worth. It sounds like the vacancy announcement just wasn't set up right and that the position you are talking about is in fact a career ladder position. The statements you made regarding career ladder promotions not being automatic is correct.

Here is an example and if these announcements are set up wrong that would be very surprising because I come across them daily. https://www.usajobs.gov/...ob/ViewDetails/358502300
russ4h  
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2014 12:49:48 AM(UTC)
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That is exactly how the posting looked for the job I was offered referenced in my previous post. I did not take the job so I can't say how it would have worked, but I do see postings like this daily as well.
someoldguy  
#8 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2014 1:21:08 AM(UTC)
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I was looking at some jobs that did not have the "ladder" but I knew there were other positions in the same job series at the same agency at higher levels. I was told that all promotions were competitive. I wonder if there will be more of this.

Promotions under a band system are a different matter as well... you could get the job with additional responsibility, but not the promotion. First you competed for the job, and then (after a year or so) you could compete for the promotion.
37years6togo  
#9 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2014 1:25:27 AM(UTC)
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I've had this kind of position including my current position. When you reach the top of the ladder it is up to management to decide if there is work to do at the higher grade and if so to make a job announcement. Once there is an announcement, you and whoever else apply and the normal selection process occurs.

The job I'm in now has the same process. Job is announced as an 11/12. To get a 13 the applicant must have completed certain special tasks to qualify to apply to the 13 level.

Even if you do the special tasks there is no guarantee that local management will have the funds or the interest to make an announcement. When they do make the announcement it is internal but nationwide. There is always the chance that the selectee will be from outside the local area-and no, they don't pay relocation in those instances.

Fortunately (?) for me I'm in a high cost area.
Currently 40 years in and 4 to go. <img src="smileys/smiley23.gif" border="0" align="middle" />
HR Bubba  
#10 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2014 4:18:56 AM(UTC)
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igotthis24 wrote:
HR Bubba wrote:
I have not seen the vacancy announcement you are referring to, so take this for what it's worth. It sounds like the vacancy announcement just wasn't set up right and that the position you are talking about is in fact a career ladder position. The statements you made regarding career ladder promotions not being automatic is correct.

Here is an example and if these announcements are set up wrong that would be very surprising because I come across them daily. https://www.usajobs.gov/...ob/ViewDetails/358502300


I can't speak for how other agencies set up their vacancy announcements, but the way I read this one is that this is a career ladder position (9,11,12,13). The line that says "Series & Grade" indicates that they are filling the vacancy at the 09 level. (If it had said 9/11 or 9/11/12 etc. then management can make the selection at any of those grades). The line that says "promotion potential" should indicate the potential of the currently advertised position, not a different position that you would have to compete for again.
HR Bubba  
#11 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2014 4:52:22 AM(UTC)
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I think he is saying the same thing...he states that the job was an 11/12 job (full performance 12). To me, any mention he makes of a 13 job he is talking about a new/different position. Mgmt cannot advertise a full performance 12 job and then non-competitively promote to the 13.
igotthis24  
#12 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2014 4:53:05 AM(UTC)
igotthis24

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HR Bubba wrote:
igotthis24 wrote:
HR Bubba wrote:
I have not seen the vacancy announcement you are referring to, so take this for what it's worth. It sounds like the vacancy announcement just wasn't set up right and that the position you are talking about is in fact a career ladder position. The statements you made regarding career ladder promotions not being automatic is correct.

Here is an example and if these announcements are set up wrong that would be very surprising because I come across them daily. https://www.usajobs.gov/...ob/ViewDetails/358502300


I can't speak for how other agencies set up their vacancy announcements, but the way I read this one is that this is a career ladder position (9,11,12,13). The line that says "Series & Grade" indicates that they are filling the vacancy at the 09 level. (If it had said 9/11 or 9/11/12 etc. then management can make the selection at any of those grades). The line that says "promotion potential" should indicate the potential of the currently advertised position, not a different position that you would have to compete for again.


This seems accurate and is how I understood things to be.
igotthis24  
#13 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2014 4:53:47 AM(UTC)
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HR Bubba wrote:
I think he is saying the same thing...he states that the job was an 11/12 job (full performance 12). To me, any mention he makes of a 13 job he is talking about a new/different position. Mgmt cannot advertise a full performance 12 job and then non-competitively promote to the 13.


Exactly, I misread his post.
Obliged  
#14 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2014 11:36:21 AM(UTC)
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Sometimes you must read into the announcement. I have seen postings which only state a single grade under "Series & Grade" and "Promotion Potential", but state a "full performance level" somewhere in the body of the job posting. You can also email or call the agency contact within the announcement for further clarification.
AdumaU  
#15 Posted : Friday, January 17, 2014 8:20:44 AM(UTC)
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Waiiiit...I just accepted a job that was a GS12 with a promotion potential for GS14.

Does that mean I totally fukked myself thinking it was an automatic to 14?
AdumaU  
#16 Posted : Friday, January 17, 2014 8:27:47 AM(UTC)
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http://www.archives.gov/careers/jobs/fields.html

Whoops...quick google solves this mystery
igotthis24  
#17 Posted : Friday, January 17, 2014 9:07:21 AM(UTC)
igotthis24

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AdumaU wrote:
http://www.archives.gov/careers/jobs/fields.html

Whoops...quick google solves this mystery


Very helpful, thank you. Although, this is on the archives website. Other agencies may have different policies.
AdumaU  
#18 Posted : Friday, January 17, 2014 9:42:55 AM(UTC)
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I'm pretty sure all positions that say Promotion Potential to some higher level than the posted grade are noncompetitive. That doesn't really make any sense if you would have to. If you would, you'd have to apply for a whole new position internally that would have to be posted.
igotthis24  
#19 Posted : Saturday, January 18, 2014 6:31:57 AM(UTC)
igotthis24

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AdumaU wrote:
I'm pretty sure all positions that say Promotion Potential to some higher level than the posted grade are noncompetitive. That doesn't really make any sense if you would have to. If you would, you'd have to apply for a whole new position internally that would have to be posted.

Right that's been established. Whether or not it works the same as a ladder was the question. According to HR Bubba and the link you posted, it seems that it does follow ladder procedures.igotthis242014-01-18 14:39:40
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