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governmentjobber  
#1 Posted : Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:32:53 AM(UTC)
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i'm wondering what the "general" experience is for promotion to the next grade-level within one's current job?

i have never worked for the government and almost a year ago i came in at a GS-11 and my position has a promotion potential to GS-12. so i will soon meet the time spent in GS-11 to qualify for a GS-12.

- are there funding issues that can hinder the promotion from GS-11 to GS-12?
- does a manger have a dis-incentive, for budget reasons, to withhold promotion (i.e. less money for other things)?
- do people find it to be basically automatic, with the minimum time-in-grade dictating the promotion?
- do managers use grade increase(s) as a tool?

i'm sure there's quite a bit of variance in how managers deal with promotions. i always assumed the managers would want to promote their employees as fast as they can (if the employee is meeting all explicit goals).

i'm trying to figure out how to approach the issue: do i treat it like most of the conventional wisdom concerning raises/promotions, despite it being a public sector job (i.e. transparent requirements for time-in-grade, pay bands, etc)?

i haven't been told anything about the promotion process in the office and i haven't spoken to anyone in the office about it, neither peers nor managers.
nembamike  
#2 Posted : Monday, February 29, 2016 3:07:04 AM(UTC)

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Yes its basically automatic pending your supervisor's approval. There are no funding/budget issues that would prevent this happening that I'm aware of. After a year time-in-grade as a 12 you qualify to apply for 13 jobs.
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governmentjobber on 2/29/2016(UTC)
birdonamission  
#3 Posted : Monday, February 29, 2016 7:50:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nembamike Go to Quoted Post
Yes its basically automatic pending your supervisor's approval.


The OP's question interests me, too. So, when it's one year later, does the supervisor get a notice from HR saying that said employee is eligible for promotion based on the position having promotion potential and it's the one-year anniversary of the employee coming on board; "Do you approve - yes or no?" Or, is this totally left to the supervisor's ability to remember and hopefully is even on his or her radar or is it up to the employee to muster up the courage and temerity to do the awkward "Err, ummm... are you going to promote me because it's about that time" dance?

And on the one year anniversary thing, is that even set in stone or does the supervisor have discretion? My HR Specialist said the supervisor may approve as early as a few pay periods after coming on board.

Thanks...

Edited by user Monday, February 29, 2016 7:53:38 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Minor grammar fix; to be more clear.

someoldguy  
#4 Posted : Monday, February 29, 2016 8:07:57 AM(UTC)
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I was in discussions about a 7/9/11 position. It sounded like the promotion from 7 to 9 was pretty much automatic after one year assuming your performance was satisfactory. However, they were a little less clear about the timeline from 9 to 11. That's where they said you had to be recommended for promotion. That got me to thinking especially when I read some other posts on here about supervisors who were not very clear with the performance standards for promotion.
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nembamike  
#5 Posted : Monday, February 29, 2016 8:37:47 AM(UTC)

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HR will ping the supervisor when its due.
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governmentjobber on 2/29/2016(UTC)
someoldguy  
#6 Posted : Monday, February 29, 2016 9:38:42 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nembamike Go to Quoted Post
HR will ping the supervisor when its due.


But that doesn't mean the supervisor has to approve it... or even that it will make it to the top of their to-do list.
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SDAnalyst  
#7 Posted : Monday, February 29, 2016 10:39:08 AM(UTC)
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A former active duty military guy I used to work with took a GS 7-9-11 job after retirement. He was "assured" promotion was automatic. 4 years later, and he is still a GS-7. The alleged reason is Budget restrictions. I have to say, this is one of the few times I have heard of something like this happening. But it does happen.
djp  
#8 Posted : Monday, February 29, 2016 11:56:18 AM(UTC)

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There is no guarantee of promotion......

factors play a part:

1. Budget limitations
2. structure of the job
3. employee performance---does s/he deserve the promotion now.

On 2---with some jobs they may advertise positions as 11/12 or 11/12/13 which means you can automatically get promoted without having to reapply----but each agency and division is different.

With some there is a structure so you may have say 12 11/12 positions but 3 of those positions are team leads. You aren't getting the 12 slot until you can get the team lead position. Jobs as 11/12/13 could be similar where 11/12 are freely promoted while 13 slots are only reserved for team leads. With other agencies its different where they figure as you get more experience and you learn about the office you work in you will get the promotions.

thanks 1 user thanked for this useful post.
someoldguy on 2/29/2016(UTC)
someoldguy  
#9 Posted : Monday, February 29, 2016 12:32:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: djp Go to Quoted Post
...you may have say 12 11/12 positions but 3 of those positions are team leads.


Is a "team lead" a "supervisory" position?

I only ask because there is a database available from OPM called FedScope and you can look at all the agencies (but it is only broken down by state so for someplace like Virginia or Maryland it might be hard to figure out too much). Each position is marked whether it is "supervisory" or not.
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birdonamission  
#10 Posted : Monday, February 29, 2016 2:34:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: djp Go to Quoted Post
There is no guarantee of promotion......

factors play a part:

1. Budget limitations
2. structure of the job
3. employee performance---does s/he deserve the promotion now.

On 2---with some jobs they may advertise positions as 11/12 or 11/12/13 which means you can automatically get promoted without having to reapply----but each agency and division is different.

With some there is a structure so you may have say 12 11/12 positions but 3 of those positions are team leads. You aren't getting the 12 slot until you can get the team lead position. Jobs as 11/12/13 could be similar where 11/12 are freely promoted while 13 slots are only reserved for team leads. With other agencies its different where they figure as you get more experience and you learn about the office you work in you will get the promotions.



Good stuff. If you don't mind, what about this type of announcement: GS-11/12 with promotion potential to GS-13 and the person is already a GS-12 so was hired laterally to the GS-12 grade.

Is the promotion to GS-13 (promotion potential) treated for all intents and purposes like a ladder promotion, e.g. from GS-11 to GS-12, in this example? What difference in all that you said for "in-ladder" promotions if the promotion is to the promotion potential grade because you came at the top grade in the ladder range?
governmentjobber  
#11 Posted : Monday, February 29, 2016 6:50:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nembamike Go to Quoted Post
Yes its basically automatic pending your supervisor's approval. There are no funding/budget issues that would prevent this happening that I'm aware of. After a year time-in-grade as a 12 you qualify to apply for 13 jobs.


thanks for that information


Originally Posted by: nembamike Go to Quoted Post
HR will ping the supervisor when its due.


great! that's additional information i was going to ask. i suppose it may be awkward to bring it up then. i'm wondering if i should bring it up 1 pay period prior to my 1 year? can they retroactively apply it starting from the 1 year anniversary if the supervisor chooses to? i mean, that's a big chunk of change for 1 or 2 pay periods at a GS12 (from GS11).


Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: nembamike Go to Quoted Post
HR will ping the supervisor when its due.


But that doesn't mean the supervisor has to approve it... or even that it will make it to the top of their to-do list.


thanks for that.

that's the thing i am now trying to gauge within my office. in general, i can't see the grade promotion some kind of carrot/incentive to do better (assuming manager is happy with the performance, whether that is meeting or exceeding them).

it doesn't make sense to me to withhold a promotion when everyone knows that it is available and "free" of cost. i think that would really make me consider getting out of there. if the promotion wasn't available (or the employee was not doing a good job) it makes sense; but to have the promotion and use it as some kind of incentive does not make sense to me, unless someone else can convince me otherwise.

in my personal situation my position maxes out at a GS12, GS13 in my office is a supervisory role (but not managerial, GS14, GS15 for those in my office).
FAct_88  
#12 Posted : Friday, March 4, 2016 10:49:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
Is a "team lead" a "supervisory" position?


Not in my agency. It is more of a role of coordination than anything else, but not officially a supervisor.

FAct_88  
#13 Posted : Friday, March 4, 2016 11:01:00 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: djp Go to Quoted Post
There is no guarantee of promotion......

factors play a part:

1. Budget limitations
2. structure of the job
3. employee performance---does s/he deserve the promotion now.

On 2---with some jobs they may advertise positions as 11/12 or 11/12/13 which means you can automatically get promoted without having to reapply----but each agency and division is different.

With some there is a structure so you may have say 12 11/12 positions but 3 of those positions are team leads. You aren't getting the 12 slot until you can get the team lead position. Jobs as 11/12/13 could be similar where 11/12 are freely promoted while 13 slots are only reserved for team leads. With other agencies its different where they figure as you get more experience and you learn about the office you work in you will get the promotions.



Exactly this. I think so many feds see automatic rise through career ladder that they think it is a guarantee. It isn't. djp hit all the correct point. In my agency, when a career ladder 7/9/11 is opened with the specification that the employee will be hired at the 7, what the agency is saying is: "we know we have a 7 level job that needs to be done now, and we think we might have an 11 level job in the near (or maybe far) future." Nothing more than this. If higher level employees leave, there may be a need at the 9 or 11 level, again assuming the supervisor thinks the ladder employee if capable of doing the higher level work. The it is very easy, in the HR sense, to advance the ladder employee up to the higher level. So this is a plus for a supervisor. The downside is, if you made some poor hiring decisions, and/or poorly planned your future need for higher level work, you have an employee or employees who are expecting promotions for which it is hard to justify the additional expense to the taxpayer.
FedFunEmp  
#14 Posted : Friday, March 4, 2016 5:52:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: FAct_88 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
Is a "team lead" a "supervisory" position?


Not in my agency. It is more of a role of coordination than anything else, but not officially a supervisor.



I think as someone has already said, your time-in-grade is subjective to the agency you work for.

In my agency, if you are hired under a career ladder promotion, let’s say 11/12/13, you were automatically promoted and did not have to compete for the 12/13 promotion if your time-in-grade and skill level supported the promotion. If you exceeded your (12 months) time-in-grade it was because you were not performing at the next grade level. It had nothing to do with budgets.

Additionally, in my agency a “team lead” is responsible for the following:
1. Training you or someone else
2. Working with you on a day to day basis
3. The information that is included in your performance appraisal (because they worked with you on a day to day basis and more than anyone else).

Is someone that does all of the above not considered a supervisory position even if their title is “team lead”? If so, then please tell me what qualifies as a supervisory position? I am not being facetious either. This is a real question. I would really like to get a better understanding. Thank you.
governmentjobber  
#15 Posted : Saturday, March 5, 2016 7:13:57 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: FedFunEmp Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FAct_88 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
Is a "team lead" a "supervisory" position?


Not in my agency. It is more of a role of coordination than anything else, but not officially a supervisor.



I think as someone has already said, your time-in-grade is subjective to the agency you work for.

In my agency, if you are hired under a career ladder promotion, let’s say 11/12/13, you were automatically promoted and did not have to compete for the 12/13 promotion if your time-in-grade and skill level supported the promotion. If you exceeded your (12 months) time-in-grade it was because you were not performing at the next grade level. It had nothing to do with budgets.

Additionally, in my agency a “team lead” is responsible for the following:
1. Training you or someone else
2. Working with you on a day to day basis
3. The information that is included in your performance appraisal (because they worked with you on a day to day basis and more than anyone else).

Is someone that does all of the above not considered a supervisory position even if their title is “team lead”? If so, then please tell me what qualifies as a supervisory position? I am not being facetious either. This is a real question. I would really like to get a better understanding. Thank you.


thanks for the input.

that leads me to another question: are most people told what the performance requirements are for the next grade for a career ladder? in my case, 9/11/12, none of my colleagues know what specifically changes from 9/11/12 other than having more knowledge (so, thus "better" at their position). (i assume managers do not explicitly tell anyone)
FedFunEmp  
#16 Posted : Saturday, March 5, 2016 5:46:25 PM(UTC)
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Anytime!

Now I am hoping someone can help me understand team lead vs. supervisor if the team lead is responsible for following
1. Training you or someone else
2. Working with you on a day to day basis
3. The information that is included in your performance appraisal (because they worked with you on a day to day basis and more than anyone else)

Isn’t that person a supervisor given they are supervising someone? The title seems just like a technicality as their actions are supervisory even without the title…..right?
djp  
#17 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2016 8:13:59 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: FedFunEmp Go to Quoted Post
Anytime!

Now I am hoping someone can help me understand team lead vs. supervisor if the team lead is responsible for following
1. Training you or someone else
2. Working with you on a day to day basis
3. The information that is included in your performance appraisal (because they worked with you on a day to day basis and more than anyone else)

Isn’t that person a supervisor given they are supervising someone? The title seems just like a technicality as their actions are supervisory even without the title…..right?


a team lead will guide you on what you need to do. For example if you work a job that you regularly get taskings to do the team lead will balance out those taskings to the employees in the team or if a tasking goes to a strength of one person assign it to them.

team leads usually have meetings with the supervisor about projects then the team lead communicates this stuff to the members of the team.

the team lead will give feedback to the supervisor regarding how you have been performing.

FAct_88  
#18 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2016 11:30:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: FedFunEmp Go to Quoted Post
Anytime!

Now I am hoping someone can help me understand team lead vs. supervisor if the team lead is responsible for following
1. Training you or someone else
2. Working with you on a day to day basis
3. The information that is included in your performance appraisal (because they worked with you on a day to day basis and more than anyone else)

Isn’t that person a supervisor given they are supervising someone? The title seems just like a technicality as their actions are supervisory even without the title…..right?


Have you worked in Federal Civil Service? If so, you surely must have taken all the required IT security, ethics, EEO etc. etc. training. In those, you should have noticed that responsibilities are usually clearly laid out along the lines of employees, supervisor, upper level management, etc. What you won't usually see here is a "Team Lead" given responsibility. Basically, when the poop hits the fan for an employee, regardless of if it was through no fault of the employee (like an on the job injury) or was the fault of the employee (such as downloading porn) it will be the supervisor who is responsible for dealing with it, not a team leader. There is a certain amount of liability inherent in being a supervisor that is just not there for a team lead.
hustonj  
#19 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2016 12:52:09 PM(UTC)
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Here, let me try:

Only a supervisor can do any paperwork related to a subordinate's career. Supervisors are responsible for assigning work, evaluating task completion, performance reviews, and on and on and on.

Team Leads serve as a surrogate for a supervisor on the issues covering immediate performance of duties. A Team Lead can't approve (or disapprove) leave, for example, but a Team Lead is pretty regularly doing the fine detail portion of assigning work and balancing the workload within a team. The Supervisor, in such cases, doesn't have to concern himself with whether Joe or Tim is going to handle making those charts, just that somebody on Mike's team will get it.
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