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college grad  
#1 Posted : Thursday, July 7, 2016 8:31:10 PM(UTC)
college grad

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I'm looking into research jobs at law enforcement/intelligence agencies that don't require a formal training academy after being hired. I know the FBI and DEA analysts require training academies. Does anyone know about whether the Intelligence / Criminal Research Specialists positions for these agencies have formal training: ATF, Marshals, Secret Service, ICE, CBP.
Mike in VT  
#2 Posted : Friday, July 8, 2016 2:11:40 AM(UTC)

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I believe they all require formal training at a residential training center.
someoldguy  
#3 Posted : Friday, July 8, 2016 4:32:17 AM(UTC)
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I'm curious why somebody would not want to go to formal training... cant go on an extended TDY for some reason?
DISCLAIMER: You read it on an open internet forum :)
college grad  
#4 Posted : Friday, July 8, 2016 2:59:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mike in VT Go to Quoted Post
I believe they all require formal training at a residential training center.


You sure cause I saw a posting for research specialist at the Marshals recently and they didn't mention any training in the posting, also saw nothing about residential training at secret service, ATF or the others on their websites.

Edited by user Friday, July 8, 2016 3:07:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

college grad  
#5 Posted : Friday, July 8, 2016 3:05:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
I'm curious why somebody would not want to go to formal training... cant go on an extended TDY for some reason?


I don't want to go through training not because I can't-- but because I wouldn't need it (due to high levels of relevant experience and education) and it would just be a waste of time honestly. I would not mind getting on-the-job training however.
YoshiBird  
#6 Posted : Friday, July 8, 2016 4:05:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: college grad Go to Quoted Post
You sure cause I saw a posting for research specialist at the Marshals recently and they didn't mention any training in the posting, also saw nothing about residential training at secret service, ATF or the others on their websites.


Make sure you look at the job series code (0132 vs. 1805), as there are some jobs posted as Intelligence, that are more secretarial in nature, and less analytical; therefore not requiring the formal training.

I applied to a DHS Intelligence Research Specialist position, and there is no formal training requirement listed on the announcement. However, the position is also considered Non-Essential, which makes me wonder how involved it really is in the IC.

I honestly don't think there is a way around formal training for actual intelligence positions. It's how agencies create a standard for themselves and their employees, and it's generally a good thing :)
someoldguy  
#7 Posted : Saturday, July 9, 2016 2:14:35 PM(UTC)
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That's awfully big of you to condescend to consider on-the-job training. Reminds me of an arrogant young crud who thought he knew it all... eventually he became some old guy.

If you are fortunate enough to be hired as an intel analyst and get sent to formal training, learn all you can, and take advantage of your newbie status to make newbie mistakes.
DISCLAIMER: You read it on an open internet forum :)
college grad  
#8 Posted : Thursday, July 14, 2016 5:58:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: YoshiBird Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: college grad Go to Quoted Post
You sure cause I saw a posting for research specialist at the Marshals recently and they didn't mention any training in the posting, also saw nothing about residential training at secret service, ATF or the others on their websites.


Make sure you look at the job series code (0132 vs. 1805), as there are some jobs posted as Intelligence, that are more secretarial in nature, and less analytical; therefore not requiring the formal training.

I applied to a DHS Intelligence Research Specialist position, and there is no formal training requirement listed on the announcement. However, the position is also considered Non-Essential, which makes me wonder how involved it really is in the IC.

I honestly don't think there is a way around formal training for actual intelligence positions. It's how agencies create a standard for themselves and their employees, and it's generally a good thing :)


What DHS agency was it?
The Marshals job was titled "Investigative Research Specialist" which I guess is there version of the intelligence research specialist since they aren't IC. Stated no clearance required and didn't mention training. I know there are secretarial jobs and I have no interest in those, you can tell they are secretarial because they won't have the word "Research" or "intelligence" in the title.

college grad  
#9 Posted : Thursday, July 14, 2016 6:15:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
That's awfully big of you to condescend to consider on-the-job training. Reminds me of an arrogant young crud who thought he knew it all... eventually he became some old guy.

If you are fortunate enough to be hired as an intel analyst and get sent to formal training, learn all you can, and take advantage of your newbie status to make newbie mistakes.


My issue with formal training is that it downplays what you've learned in past experiences and education. So what is the point of that if they are still going to teach you everything anyway. I can only see it being useful for people with no relevant background for the job or are fresh out of college otherwise it's just a chore.

Edited by user Thursday, July 14, 2016 6:26:23 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

frankgonzalez  
#10 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 3:12:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: college grad Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
That's awfully big of you to condescend to consider on-the-job training. Reminds me of an arrogant young crud who thought he knew it all... eventually he became some old guy.

If you are fortunate enough to be hired as an intel analyst and get sent to formal training, learn all you can, and take advantage of your newbie status to make newbie mistakes.


My issue with formal training is that it downplays what you've learned in past experiences and education. So what is the point of that if they are still going to teach you everything anyway. I can only see it being useful for people with no relevant background for the job or are fresh out of college otherwise it's just a chore.
Here is my nickel's worth (inflation ya know!). I have 20 years of experience IN the federal government in my field. When I arrived at my current agency, they waited over a year to send me to their specific training. I only needed 1 of the 3 weeks they send people to (and thankfully, they did not make me go to those other weeks). Due to when I went, the week was basically 40 hours I won't get back, except it was in Cocoa Beach, FL, and staying on the beach was not too bad..a little vacation from the office. HOWEVER, if I had gone within the first few months, it would have been outstanding as it would have helped me understand the minor differences between how THIS agency does things vs my previous agencies. The differences were subtle, and over the previous year I learned the hard way (for example...where do you sign on a memo and what color ink do you use? Not such a simple question as it turns out! The where answer is depends on if internal vs external and the color ink is always blue for signatures in the Coast Guard.).

So formal training on how the agency wants things done is useful not matter how many years of experience you have. But...you can be cocky and discover that you can't find a position that presumes you know everything...or you find out after you get into one, you are written up frequently and then let go during probation because you don't know what you are doing. All because you didn't want to go to training from the agency!

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
YoshiBird  
#11 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2016 5:12:00 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: college grad Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: YoshiBird Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: college grad Go to Quoted Post
You sure cause I saw a posting for research specialist at the Marshals recently and they didn't mention any training in the posting, also saw nothing about residential training at secret service, ATF or the others on their websites.


Make sure you look at the job series code (0132 vs. 1805), as there are some jobs posted as Intelligence, that are more secretarial in nature, and less analytical; therefore not requiring the formal training.

I applied to a DHS Intelligence Research Specialist position, and there is no formal training requirement listed on the announcement. However, the position is also considered Non-Essential, which makes me wonder how involved it really is in the IC.

I honestly don't think there is a way around formal training for actual intelligence positions. It's how agencies create a standard for themselves and their employees, and it's generally a good thing :)


What DHS agency was it?
The Marshals job was titled "Investigative Research Specialist" which I guess is there version of the intelligence research specialist since they aren't IC. Stated no clearance required and didn't mention training. I know there are secretarial jobs and I have no interest in those, you can tell they are secretarial because they won't have the word "Research" or "intelligence" in the title.



Citizen and Immigration Services (CIS) / Fraud Detection and National Security (FDNS)
Job announcement does not mention anything about formal training, but it does require a TS.
college grad  
#12 Posted : Saturday, July 16, 2016 1:48:20 PM(UTC)
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Just saw this Research Specialist posting with the Secret Service, it doesn't say it requires any formal training, but seems like it requires more specialized experiences/education than the typical intel job. Makes me think the jobs that require formal training are less skilled because your past training is less important.

https://www.usajobs.gov/...b/ViewDetails/444577100/

Edited by user Saturday, July 16, 2016 2:33:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Strongman 265  
#13 Posted : Monday, December 11, 2017 7:58:27 AM(UTC)
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FWIW, I was able to become an intelligence analyst with no formal training, and no military experience. I had a BA in Political Science at the time and was working a geologist (long story). I started out in the IC doing security escort work which required a TS/SCI w/ CI poly (which the contractor sponsored), and after six months I took a deployment to Iraq (very low paying but I knew it'd be a great way to learn and pay my dues, so to speak), then after a year, I returned CONUS and took a junior intel position. I took on a mentor, worked my butt off, and quickly rose to team lead. From there I took a job in Afghanistan and ended up spending 25 months there, ultimately working my way up to senior analyst.

It can absolutely be done. It's much easier to do it on the contractor side starting as a junior, so long as you can demonstrate analytic ability. Having a degree in Political Science, International Relations, etc... would be a huge help, too.

Where you'll have trouble is when the contract has a government requirement for formal training, which will happen and has cost me some very good opportunities. However, once you're "in" I would suggest taking as many training courses as you can to make yourself both an asset to the mission, and more marketable for the next opportunity. Learn tradecraft, systems, anything you can. Find someone very experienced and see if they'll mentor you. I was fortunate to find two separate mentors who helped shape me into the analyst I am today.

I'm still a contractor but hoping to get into DIA...been in the process a year now. Once there I'll be a junior again, and will start from the bottom, re-learning what I've spent years to learn. However, at the end, I'll have that "formal training" that's always eluded me, and a career in public service which doesn't require me to update my CV every year or worry about the contract being terminated.

Good luck!
thanks 1 user thanked Strongman 265 for this useful post.
rebels8 on 12/13/2017(UTC)
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