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frankgonzalez  
#21 Posted : Thursday, April 06, 2017 10:06:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: socGrad Go to Quoted Post
"Also, she never loses her time in service. It is always counted if she's re-hired."


Does this apply to time towards career status or only time towards leave/retirement?

Also, does management need a paper trail if a person is on probation? I thought people on probation (like me) were "at will" hires during their probationary period...
Towards leave and retirement (unless you move directly from one position to another without a break in service).

As for a paper trail...the answer is yes and no. Technically they don't need one...but if an EEO complaint (or similar) is filed, then the manager needs to justify the termination, and without a paper trail that is difficult to do. Now the amount needed to justify letting someone go during probation is less than you would need to show if they were past probation.

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
thanks 1 user thanked frankgonzalez for this useful post.
RightGuy45 on 4/19/2017(UTC)
raafi  
#22 Posted : Thursday, April 06, 2017 11:56:49 AM(UTC)
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OP here! My friend is arranging a meeting with her boss to go over all this. However, she is not very optimistic about the whole situation but I asked her to give it a try before she resigns. Hopefully, I'll find something out later next week.
FedCivServ  
#23 Posted : Friday, April 07, 2017 12:20:49 PM(UTC)

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Well yes, but it's a lot easier to let someone go during that timeframe. I mean you can't fire someone just because you don't like their looks or whatever so documentation to show why is needed... the USG invests a lot in hiring & training people and so letting someone go should not be a whimsical decision. Having said that, some will go ahead and pull the trigger w/ less documentation during the first year (or I guess now 2) since it gets progressively harder to do it later.
cboro_guy  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, April 18, 2017 11:05:11 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: tstreet Go to Quoted Post
Probationary periods are 2-years if you were hired after Nov 2015...which is a long time.


Competitive service appointees' probationary periods for the purposes of being an employee with MSPB appeal rights are still 1 year unless section 1599e of title 10 (DoD appointees) applies. Preference eligible excepted service appointees still only need 1 year of current continuous service in the same or similar position to have appeal rights. Nonpreference eligible excepted service appointees still require a 2-year probationary period or 2 years of current continuous service in the same or similar position.

RightGuy45  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, April 19, 2017 4:05:53 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: frankgonzalez Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: socGrad Go to Quoted Post
"Also, she never loses her time in service. It is always counted if she's re-hired."


Does this apply to time towards career status or only time towards leave/retirement?

Also, does management need a paper trail if a person is on probation? I thought people on probation (like me) were "at will" hires during their probationary period...
Towards leave and retirement (unless you move directly from one position to another without a break in service).

As for a paper trail...the answer is yes and no. Technically they don't need one...but if an EEO complaint (or similar) is filed, then the manager needs to justify the termination, and without a paper trail that is difficult to do. Now the amount needed to justify letting someone go during probation is less than you would need to show if they were past probation.



Define paper trail....

If an employee is messing up every month, the manager is documenting and having discussions with the employee constantly?

fedquestions7878  
#26 Posted : Wednesday, January 10, 2018 4:44:55 PM(UTC)
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This is a good thread. I can't get into specifics but I am close to the end of my probational period and may just quit. The organization is a wasteland of fraud and abuse. In fact, they know it because they recently cleaned house. However, evidently in the federal government, they don't fire people to get rid of them, they just promote them, which is sickening. They are guilty of contractor fraud, retaliation, personal threats, you name it. It is like nothing I have ever seen before. Before working at this position, I would have thought the same-only a fool couldn't get through probation. Not true, not true at all.

I even filed EEO and Whistleblower, but to be honest, not even sure it is worth it. Just for quality of life.

The federal government is not all it's cracked up to be and when you find a job within the government that is "okay". Stay. Grass is not always greener.

Also found out-they often promote to SES because it's easier to get rid of them (not protected under Title V).

Happy New Year.
thanks 1 user thanked fedquestions7878 for this useful post.
DroneBee on 1/10/2018(UTC)
DroneBee  
#27 Posted : Wednesday, January 10, 2018 10:47:44 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: fedquestions7878 Go to Quoted Post
This is a good thread. I can't get into specifics but I am close to the end of my probational period and may just quit.


Unless you believe that you may be fired (which, in that case, you should get another job before you get the boot), then you should complete one year at your level (I'm not sure how long your probationary period lasts - 1 year or 3 years). Once you have the one year, then apply for a different job. The goal in any case would be to get out before things get even worse (which will occur). Good luck and God Bless.

Frankish  
#28 Posted : Wednesday, January 10, 2018 11:27:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: fedquestions7878 Go to Quoted Post
This is a good thread. I can't get into specifics but I am close to the end of my probational period and may just quit. The organization is a wasteland of fraud and abuse. In fact, they know it because they recently cleaned house. However, evidently in the federal government, they don't fire people to get rid of them, they just promote them, which is sickening. They are guilty of contractor fraud, retaliation, personal threats, you name it. It is like nothing I have ever seen before. Before working at this position, I would have thought the same-only a fool couldn't get through probation. Not true, not true at all.

I even filed EEO and Whistleblower, but to be honest, not even sure it is worth it. Just for quality of life.

The federal government is not all it's cracked up to be and when you find a job within the government that is "okay". Stay. Grass is not always greener.

Also found out-they often promote to SES because it's easier to get rid of them (not protected under Title V).

Happy New Year.


Specifics of sorts would be helpful. The post focused on "them" and not "you". Focus on you and not them. Unclear why the end of the probation period would be incentive to quit. Ideally the employer walks you out the door and in turn you collect unemployment benefits. As noted, a role elsewhere might be the better option.
Goonernoodles  
#29 Posted : Friday, January 12, 2018 5:48:47 AM(UTC)

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I think we must work for the same agency:)

In exact same situation(whistle blew fraud and EEO complaint) but in the middle of interviewing for other Fed jobs and have a week or so. One job I applied to was open to the public but requires a clearance and worried how resigning now would look on a clearance investigation (vs being terminated with a eeoc complaint).

Secret clearance. Any thoughts?
Goonernoodles  
#30 Posted : Friday, January 12, 2018 5:52:03 AM(UTC)

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To clarify, one week shy of completing probation but believe I will be terminated unjustly. Corrruption runs DEEP in the agency.

My husband says I should write a book.
frankgonzalez  
#31 Posted : Friday, January 12, 2018 8:12:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Goonernoodles Go to Quoted Post
To clarify, one week shy of completing probation but believe I will be terminated unjustly. Corrruption runs DEEP in the agency.

My husband says I should write a book.
Let's see...in 1 week you will be past probation. Than all kinds of protections kick in. And next week has only 4 work days in it. So unless they walk you out by Friday, Congrats on completing probation!

Have they told you anything about being removed and why they would do so? If not, why worry?

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
Goonernoodles  
#32 Posted : Friday, January 12, 2018 8:16:41 AM(UTC)

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Filed with EEO, OIG, OSC and whistleblower.gov for fraud (Deming Things here I cannot get into). They want me gone. Just a matter of liability at this point.

Buddy said to call out sick last few days..only if it were that easy lol.
Goonernoodles  
#33 Posted : Sunday, January 14, 2018 5:01:50 PM(UTC)

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Got this week and 2 Days next week. Lawyer says they are stupid to fire me but I have heard they are trying (inside source). Debating giving notice and preserving security clearance investigation or being possibly terminated and fighting it out via EEOC. Stressful.
DroneBee  
#34 Posted : Friday, January 19, 2018 12:13:52 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Goonernoodles Go to Quoted Post
Got this week and 2 Days next week. Lawyer says they are stupid to fire me but I have heard they are trying (inside source). Debating giving notice and preserving security clearance investigation or being possibly terminated and fighting it out via EEOC. Stressful.


So sorry to hear this! Maybe with the possible shut-down things will slow down for you. You can fight via EEOC or MSPB. Good luck.

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