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LoopyLarry  
#1 Posted : Monday, August 21, 2017 8:03:06 PM(UTC)
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My GS13 supervisor has been on administrative leave since Mar 2016(still getting compensated). IG came in with 7 allegations and all of them were substantiated. On top of that he received a DUI. I currently am now rated by a 03/Cpt who works 2000 miles away. I am a GS11 placed in charged by my upper chain of command. I have turned the office around and have made great strides ridding the place of corruption and bad intentions. My evals have been stellar. The place is running like a clock.

My question is, how long can they keep USING me in this position w/o actually promoting me to a 12/13? What if they don't and hire someone else? Can I seek legal actions? Can I get compensated for almost two years covering down on an GS11 and GS13 position?

I'm frustrated and definitely feel used.
ex-military  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, August 23, 2017 8:49:23 AM(UTC)
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In our agency, if you are in an acting position for more than 90 days, they have to pay you at the higher grade. You aren't necessarily entitled to the position permanently, but they should be paying you.
HR Bubba  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:22:43 AM(UTC)

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2 questions:

1) Did they process a personnel action showing the assignment of additional duties?

2) Have you discussed this with your supervisor?
LoopyLarry  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, August 23, 2017 10:10:15 AM(UTC)
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Interesting answers...Thank You

No....I have not seen any personnel actions showing the assignment of additional duties. Who would the initiator be? My supervisor or my HR dept?

I will discuss with my supervisor ASAP....CPT that rated me is now gone. He clears next week. No change of rater at this time. This has really been a ***** show
HR Bubba  
#5 Posted : Thursday, August 24, 2017 3:48:10 AM(UTC)

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Your supervisor is responsible for initiating the personnel action. The answer(s) to your questions may not be as easy as they seem. For instance, although your old supervisor may be on administrative leave he/she still encumbers the supervisor position (legally, it is their job). This leaves management with a few options: 1) remove/reassign the employee and backfill the position permanently; 2) backfill the position temporarily, pending resolution of the situation with the other supervisor. In your case, they cannot promote you from GS-11 to GS-13 due to time in grade restrictions, so that means they would have to establish a bridge GS-12 position. From a classification standpoint, I do not believe it is appropriate to create a developmental/career ladder position (GS-12) based on supervisory duties. I don't want to get too deep into classification as it makes my head hurt, suffice to say this issue may be problematic. My suggestion is to open the lines of communication with your supervisor to see if they are willing to compensate you in some fashion. You may also want to reach out to your local HR Representative (you should probably talk with a Management & Employee Relations (MER) Specialist).
It can be difficult for me to give specific advice to some situations because 1) sometimes they are pretty involved & 2) I am only hearing one side of a story. For instance, you mention that you have been put in charge, but a supervisor is responsible for more than just the assigning work. Have you been assigned the responsibility for such things as: 1) hiring actions, 2) developing job objectives, 3) performance evaluations, 4) hearing/settling employee grievances, etc.; these are just some examples of the administrative functions for which supervisors are responsible.
In your discussion with your supervisor you may want to mention that monetary compensation is only a part of your concern. If you have been performing higher graded duties, but no personnel action was ever processed then you have missed out on any time in grade that you may have earned at the higher grade. As you can see, this issue probably deserves more time (and information) than is reasonable for a message board, so I will end here, but I really encourage you to start the dialogue with your supervisor. Best of luck.
thanks 1 user thanked for this useful post.
LoopyLarry on 8/25/2017(UTC)
Go saints  
#6 Posted : Thursday, August 24, 2017 5:40:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HR Bubba Go to Quoted Post
Your supervisor is responsible for initiating the personnel action. The answer(s) to your questions may not be as easy as they seem. For instance, although your old supervisor may be on administrative leave he/she still encumbers the supervisor position (legally, it is their job). This leaves management with a few options: 1) remove/reassign the employee and backfill the position permanently; 2) backfill the position temporarily, pending resolution of the situation with the other supervisor. In your case, they cannot promote you from GS-11 to GS-13 due to time in grade restrictions, so that means they would have to establish a bridge GS-12 position. From a classification standpoint, I do not believe it is appropriate to create a developmental/career ladder position (GS-12) based on supervisory duties. I don't want to get too deep into classification as it makes my head hurt, suffice to say this issue may be problematic. My suggestion is to open the lines of communication with your supervisor to see if they are willing to compensate you in some fashion. You may also want to reach out to your local HR Representative (you should probably talk with a Management & Employee Relations (MER) Specialist).
It can be difficult for me to give specific advice to some situations because 1) sometimes they are pretty involved & 2) I am only hearing one side of a story. For instance, you mention that you have been put in charge, but a supervisor is responsible for more than just the assigning work. Have you been assigned the responsibility for such things as: 1) hiring actions, 2) developing job objectives, 3) performance evaluations, 4) hearing/settling employee grievances, etc.; these are just some examples of the administrative functions for which supervisors are responsible.
In your discussion with your supervisor you may want to mention that monetary compensation is only a part of your concern. If you have been performing higher graded duties, but no personnel action was ever processed then you have missed out on any time in grade that you may have earned at the higher grade. As you can see, this issue probably deserves more time (and information) than is reasonable for a message board, so I will end here, but I really encourage you to start the dialogue with your supervisor. Best of luck.


I am not an HR person, but I "thought" if a person was detailed to the same position on consecutive 120 days orders which exceeded a total of one year, that the position then became theirs permanently. When my command was using me as a plug-and-play staffer to cover several manning gaps over a 15 month period, that's what I was advised by HR. My detail orders were not to the same position for the entire 15 months (one was for six months, the other for nine months), so neither position became mine permanently.
HR Bubba  
#7 Posted : Thursday, August 24, 2017 7:52:14 AM(UTC)

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I don't know why your HR person would tell you that, it's not true. There is a reason why we wouldn't want to have a detail last that long, but it has nothing to do with the position then becoming the employee's position of record. Rather, it falls more under it potentially being a Prohibited Personnel Practice. In other words, if the detail lasts for a year it then gives that person 1 year of specialized experience at whatever job they were detailed to. If there are other people in the organization then this could be interpreted as giving an unfair advantage to one employee over another. Part of the key here is that an employee does not have to meet qualification standards in order to be put on a detail; unlike if it was an actual reassignment which would require that a person meet qual standards. So, someone could gain a whole new skill set and be eligible to apply to other positions.
ex-military  
#8 Posted : Thursday, August 24, 2017 10:03:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HR Bubba Go to Quoted Post
So, someone could gain a whole new skill set and be eligible to apply to other positions.


Damn! We wouldn't want THAT to happen now, would we? Gain a whole new skill set? The HORRORS!

But, your point about an unfair advantage to gain that particular position on a permanent basis is well taken.
LoopyLarry  
#9 Posted : Thursday, October 05, 2017 8:06:24 PM(UTC)
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Going on 20 months!!!! My supervisor has been on 20 months of paid administrative leave... Has anybody else heard of this much fraud waste and abuse? Think he will return??
FedCivServ  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, October 10, 2017 12:19:21 PM(UTC)

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Yes I have and probably not. Sounds like leadership might be trying to put a case together to fire them. Sometimes it is worth the money to have someone out of the work area til a formal dismissal can be done.
LoopyLarry  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, October 10, 2017 5:42:01 PM(UTC)
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20 months doing exactly the same job description as my GS-13 Supervisor who is still on unpaid leave...The building I manage now has never been in compliance and is running better than ever before. My new supervisor cannot justify anything less than a "1" block on my eval.

I am a GS-11 working for military folks that have no idea how to handle my circumstance. Hell I don't even know what to do. I have no Union to turn to. The girls in HR are scared to death to even look me in the eye because they KNOW I am getting screwed. My supervisor thinks I need to quit whining and since I get OT all should be good. He is a 1SG truck driver that got thrown into the position and has no idea either.

I am ready to seek counsel in the civilian sector.... May even write a book about this crazy experience!

What do you guys think? How would you handle business?
frankgonzalez  
#12 Posted : Monday, October 16, 2017 4:05:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: LoopyLarry Go to Quoted Post
20 months doing exactly the same job description as my GS-13 Supervisor who is still on unpaid leave...The building I manage now has never been in compliance and is running better than ever before. My new supervisor cannot justify anything less than a "1" block on my eval.

I am a GS-11 working for military folks that have no idea how to handle my circumstance. Hell I don't even know what to do. I have no Union to turn to. The girls in HR are scared to death to even look me in the eye because they KNOW I am getting screwed. My supervisor thinks I need to quit whining and since I get OT all should be good. He is a 1SG truck driver that got thrown into the position and has no idea either.

I am ready to seek counsel in the civilian sector.... May even write a book about this crazy experience!

What do you guys think? How would you handle business?
You say you are doing the exact same job: Are you writing appraisals and signing them? Are you doing hiring/firing/adverse actions? Remember, not everything a person does is at the highest grade level.

You should have voted Cthulu...the greatest of all Evils
computerscott2  
#13 Posted : Thursday, October 19, 2017 5:39:47 AM(UTC)
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You could request a desk audit from HR. This could accomplish a few things:
1) They apply the accretion of duties to your position to justify increasing your GS level to a GS-12
2) They can tell your chain of command that you are performing work above your GS level and to either detail you a GS-12 performing some of those duties or ask that those duties be given to someone else.
3) They determine that your job has morphed into a higher grade and make you re-compete for your own job.
It should at least be able to help you see what duties you are supposed to be performing.

Another option is you could suck it up and use the experience for resume fodder.
"Filled in for the Supervisor/Director/Whatever while they were on leave for 14 months. Performed all of the day-to-day duties except supervisory functions., etc..."

I was in a similar situation early in my career. I chose the desk audit option and when it didn't work out in my favor, I asked my boss to let me take on additional responsibilities even though I wasn't getting compensated like the IT specialist were (they were getting special pay and I wasn't even though I did the same duties). This allowed me to break out of my "official" job description and eventually get into an IT position. I had the resume experience to back it up.
I could have chosen, after the desk audit, to just do what my narrowly defined and extremely short job descriptions were and sit on my hands for the rest of the day and just wait around for my position to be RIF'd or do what I did do and gain as much experience as I could so my resume would be stellar. That second option has benefited me more than sitting on my hands would have.
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