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postalvet  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, January 31, 2018 8:02:53 PM(UTC)
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with volume dropping management has to justify machines and hours, everything is run.

been happening for years.
Postal employee (retired) 38 yrs who helps even if some do not believe me! I was a Steward, officer & trouble maker. Just Sayin'
thanks 1 user thanked postalvet for this useful post.
PhaseIVDBCS on 2/1/2018(UTC)
mnmailman  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, January 31, 2018 8:08:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: postalvet Go to Quoted Post
with volume dropping management has to justify machines and hours, everything is run.

been happening for years.


yeah I know

just another bit of

their hypocrisy

<g>
Question authority.
Seadogg  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, January 31, 2018 8:32:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mnmailman Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PhaseIVDBCS Go to Quoted Post
Mnmailman....

As far as the 3c, if it has an address and has been through the DIOSS, if it does not already have a bar code, we have to DPS it. The carrier stuporvisor for one of the stations I used to DPS was notorious for sending back trays of EDDM (Every Door Direct Mail for newbies) to be "upgraded" and ran with the DPS. The trays of cards would have "EDDM" written in big letters across the top edge of the cards. They would even pull out the route separations before sending it back to the plant so we could return it to them with a note from our stuporvisor saying it can't be DPS'd without a physical address on each card for the DIOSS to add a barcode.


understood

but we get bulk mail

that the mailer is supposed

to be sorting for their discount

not our dps

<g>



If it is not ECRWSS, it should be in the dps, imo. The problem is that we give mailers a discount for sorting when we know we are going to sort it again.


Incorrect.

Multiple times each week there is a full coverage in the DPS that should be carried as a 3rd bundle. You can identify these mailings by your route number being printed in above the address. The printer has sequenced this mailing already and received a postage discount. When the plant runs this mail, they are processing mail that should be going straight to the carriers case.

IE: wasting plant processing time.

But, the plant wants to "pad" their numbers.



Do you think it uses more plant processing time than it saves in carrier delivery time? Particularly for walking carriers, where an extra bundle takes substantially longer...
Postalcarrier2018  
#24 Posted : Thursday, February 01, 2018 4:30:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: z165012 Go to Quoted Post
my old station did amazon, if there was amazon in the mail box carriers were supposed to bring it back and leave a postage due slip (peach slip that recently changed to a door sticky note)...my new current station doesn't do amazon...

when I started the carriers were allowed to leave stuff in the box on Sunday/Holiday, but when I left that station they were not allowed to leave anything in the box. I'm sure some of those little bubble mailers that had like a sticker in it or whatever blew away, but that was policy...


I understand collecting postage due is the proper solution to this problem but even though it is not our fault nor the customers fault that the Amazon guy messed up, I don't think the customer would want to pay for postage because the Amazon delivery person delivered it to the wrong house.

Imagine going to the door and explaining that the package was delivered to the wrong house and now you owe this amount of money for me to give it to you? that wouldn't go too well I think.

I'm sure Amazon is already having a lot of complaints about their delivery service.
John Henry  
#25 Posted : Thursday, February 01, 2018 5:15:04 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Seadogg Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: roger.d Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hannah Blector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mnmailman Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PhaseIVDBCS Go to Quoted Post
Mnmailman....

As far as the 3c, if it has an address and has been through the DIOSS, if it does not already have a bar code, we have to DPS it. The carrier stuporvisor for one of the stations I used to DPS was notorious for sending back trays of EDDM (Every Door Direct Mail for newbies) to be "upgraded" and ran with the DPS. The trays of cards would have "EDDM" written in big letters across the top edge of the cards. They would even pull out the route separations before sending it back to the plant so we could return it to them with a note from our stuporvisor saying it can't be DPS'd without a physical address on each card for the DIOSS to add a barcode.


understood

but we get bulk mail

that the mailer is supposed

to be sorting for their discount

not our dps

<g>



If it is not ECRWSS, it should be in the dps, imo. The problem is that we give mailers a discount for sorting when we know we are going to sort it again.


Incorrect.

Multiple times each week there is a full coverage in the DPS that should be carried as a 3rd bundle. You can identify these mailings by your route number being printed in above the address. The printer has sequenced this mailing already and received a postage discount. When the plant runs this mail, they are processing mail that should be going straight to the carriers case.

IE: wasting plant processing time.

But, the plant wants to "pad" their numbers.



Do you think it uses more plant processing time than it saves in carrier delivery time? Particularly for walking carriers, where an extra bundle takes substantially longer...


The thing is a carrier can just look at a bundle and know it is not going to work in thee machine and wonder how come they could not know the same. When they do try, and fail, we lose the time needed to then case what often comes every which way in a 775 tub instead of in the line of travel order that they got the discount for. Do I want it third bundled? No, but then I don't want it in a composite letter and flat bundle either
PhaseIVDBCS  
#26 Posted : Thursday, February 01, 2018 2:01:33 PM(UTC)
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Whether something is DPS'd or gets sent to the flat sorter depends on what type of DBCS is being used. A Phase VI will run chunky mail up to 1/4 inch thick. Others can't so the chunky crap gets sent to the Flat Sorter per mismanagement instructions, which does not keep presorted mail in line of travel.

MisManagement wants all mail ran or attempted to be ran. The DBCS's sort between 33,000 and 35,000 letters an hour, which at the low end is 550 letters a minute. You don't have time to look at what class the mail is or whether it is presorted other than to see if it is EDDM or ECRWSS, which are obvious. These are set aside and shipped straight to the station on the container with the box mail, certifieds, carrier routes and rejects for the hot case.

MisManagement stresses that the machine feeder cannot run out of mail to maintain throughput. The feeder operator has the mail container behind them so they've got to turn, grab a tray, turn around while making sure the face of the mail is to their right by looking at the top of the tray for the stamps, remove and check zip code on the tray label, discard it, then flip the whole tray (faster but takes practice or grab chunks of mail out of the tray of mail and place) onto the jogger ledge, use the left hand to hold the mail upright on the vibrating jogger to align the leading edges of the mail while stacking the empty tray with the right hand, check for individual pieces of chunky mail and unaligned mail, grasp the mail between both hands and slide the mail to the left onto the feeder belt, lift the feeder arm and put it down after the last letter to keep everything upright. A full feeder belt is roughly 3 minutes worth of mail. Got thin cards? Best to insert an inch of cards every few inches of letters. Again, the belt cannot run out of mail. Rinse and repeat until the container is empty and switch it with a full container until all the mail is run for 1st pass.

While the feeder is feeding, the sweeper is sweeping mail straight across into the 1st pass racks so that mail from stacker 204 goes into tray 204. When 1st pass is done and all the mail is swept across, then the racks are moved up to the feeder end of the machine and the 2nd pass racks are moved up to the stackers. The sort plan for 2nd pass is loaded and the mail is fed back into the machine in tray order sequence to put it into carrier walk sequence. If a tray is out of sequence, the machine stops. If the sweeper swept 1st pass mail into the wrong tray, the machine stops. In our plant the supervisor had be called for an out of sequence. Old timers know how to get back into sequence.


Here's a youtube video of a Phase IV DBCS running 2nd pass. Note: The operator does not have the jogger running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy73AaCf0E0

Edited by user Thursday, February 01, 2018 2:03:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Smearski  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, February 13, 2018 8:13:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Postalcarrier2018 Go to Quoted Post
I deliver to a mounted route and I see all kinds of problems...

1. They use the curbside mail box....a lot of times I open the mail box and there is an Amazon package in there, so if I have a package that would normally fit in the box, now it doesn't fit. I have even seen instances where the Amazon package barely fits the mailbox itself and now there is barely any more room for the mail especially on 3rd bundle days.

2. They mis-deliver the packages....sometimes I open the mail box with the flag up, for example, 1 smith street...and there is an Amazon package in there for 18 smith street or some other address...I know we all make mistakes but what is the correct procedure here? What would you do?

3. I've seen this many times too...they are too lazy to deliver the package to the front door so they leave the package on top of the curbside mailbox....one time it was even raining out. Makes matters worse the customer at that house probably thinks we USPS did it...

These problems plus a few others just adds more work and stress to this job and I don't think there is much we can do about it...speak to the guy if we see him? They'll probably just tell us to "f off".....I don't think they are trained or Amazon even bothers to hold them accountable for what they do out there.





I've walked up on Amazon delivery people twice in the act of putting something in our boxes and told them to stop doing that. I handed them the parcel and told them to leave it on the porch. If I see a parcel from Amazon or UPS or whomever, in one of our boxes I take it out and drop it on the ground like it was a piece of garbage. Don't be a wuss, check those chumps.

Edited by user Tuesday, February 13, 2018 8:19:31 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Didn't quote properly

MPE2009  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, February 13, 2018 9:34:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PhaseIVDBCS Go to Quoted Post
Whether something is DPS'd or gets sent to the flat sorter depends on what type of DBCS is being used. A Phase VI will run chunky mail up to 1/4 inch thick. Others can't so the chunky crap gets sent to the Flat Sorter per mismanagement instructions, which does not keep presorted mail in line of travel.

MisManagement wants all mail ran or attempted to be ran. The DBCS's sort between 33,000 and 35,000 letters an hour, which at the low end is 550 letters a minute. You don't have time to look at what class the mail is or whether it is presorted other than to see if it is EDDM or ECRWSS, which are obvious. These are set aside and shipped straight to the station on the container with the box mail, certifieds, carrier routes and rejects for the hot case.

MisManagement stresses that the machine feeder cannot run out of mail to maintain throughput. The feeder operator has the mail container behind them so they've got to turn, grab a tray, turn around while making sure the face of the mail is to their right by looking at the top of the tray for the stamps, remove and check zip code on the tray label, discard it, then flip the whole tray (faster but takes practice or grab chunks of mail out of the tray of mail and place) onto the jogger ledge, use the left hand to hold the mail upright on the vibrating jogger to align the leading edges of the mail while stacking the empty tray with the right hand, check for individual pieces of chunky mail and unaligned mail, grasp the mail between both hands and slide the mail to the left onto the feeder belt, lift the feeder arm and put it down after the last letter to keep everything upright. A full feeder belt is roughly 3 minutes worth of mail. Got thin cards? Best to insert an inch of cards every few inches of letters. Again, the belt cannot run out of mail. Rinse and repeat until the container is empty and switch it with a full container until all the mail is run for 1st pass.

While the feeder is feeding, the sweeper is sweeping mail straight across into the 1st pass racks so that mail from stacker 204 goes into tray 204. When 1st pass is done and all the mail is swept across, then the racks are moved up to the feeder end of the machine and the 2nd pass racks are moved up to the stackers. The sort plan for 2nd pass is loaded and the mail is fed back into the machine in tray order sequence to put it into carrier walk sequence. If a tray is out of sequence, the machine stops. If the sweeper swept 1st pass mail into the wrong tray, the machine stops. In our plant the supervisor had be called for an out of sequence. Old timers know how to get back into sequence.


Here's a youtube video of a Phase IV DBCS running 2nd pass. Note: The operator does not have the jogger running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy73AaCf0E0


The problem is that it does not matter whether or not the mail is in delivery sequence prior to running through a db. Carriers only have two hands and a satchel. There's a limit to the number of 3rd bundles they can carry and work simultaneously. So wth do we give a discount for letters in delivery sequence? We're going to run it through a machine anyway. That discount needs to go away since we handle the mail the exact same way as most other mail. A presort discount for mail that's routed to a zone makes sense but there should be no deeper discount than that.
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mnmailman on 2/13/2018(UTC)
122intheshade  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:11:31 AM(UTC)
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Not to mention, how many times do you get a mass mailing that has been coded wrong, and you get a tray (usually unsorted) with several dozen to hundreds of letters that need to be cased? I'm sure there's no way the PO not only recovers the discount, but charges extra for the added cost.

For years, the City of Phoenix water bills would be coded wrong once or twice a year. A minimum extra 30 minutes to case, never mind the extra delivery time.

I've always wondered what the discount is for mail that's delivered to to the office, sequenced:
1) Alphabetically by street, and;
2) Numerically for EACH STREET

Better than no sort at all, but not much more.

I deliver an area which is all newer homes (and a few businesses) with HOAs. One of the worst months of the year, is when the HOAs send out the dues coupons. The letters are too big for DPS, so some go to FSS (and what a mess THAT is) and the rest come in DPS trays to be sorted and delivered. About 1000 addresses over a couple weeks. The postage on those letters is not more than the normal weight cost.

How much more difficult is it to deliver mags and catalogs wrapped in plastic? They stick together. A lot of times they don't go through FSS but get sent to the office. A lot of times, the address print is so small an eagle needs glasses to read it. Do we charge extra for that?

I constantly make the point. The PO UNDERCHARGES. Multiply that by BILLIONS of pieces a year, and you see what we leave on the table, on the floor, in the street.
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mnmailman  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, February 13, 2018 2:32:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Postalcarrier2018 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: z165012 Go to Quoted Post
my old station did amazon, if there was amazon in the mail box carriers were supposed to bring it back and leave a postage due slip (peach slip that recently changed to a door sticky note)...my new current station doesn't do amazon...

when I started the carriers were allowed to leave stuff in the box on Sunday/Holiday, but when I left that station they were not allowed to leave anything in the box. I'm sure some of those little bubble mailers that had like a sticker in it or whatever blew away, but that was policy...


I understand collecting postage due is the proper solution to this problem but even though it is not our fault nor the customers fault that the Amazon guy messed up, I don't think the customer would want to pay for postage because the Amazon delivery person delivered it to the wrong house.

Imagine going to the door and explaining that the package was delivered to the wrong house and now you owe this amount of money for me to give it to you? that wouldn't go too well I think.

I'm sure Amazon is already having a lot of complaints about their delivery service.


old post I know

but one can easily substitute "usps"

for "Amazon" in the last sentence

<g>
Question authority.
roger.d  
#31 Posted : Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:21:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 122intheshade Go to Quoted Post
Not to mention, how many times do you get a mass mailing that has been coded wrong, and you get a tray (usually unsorted) with several dozen to hundreds of letters that need to be cased? I'm sure there's no way the PO not only recovers the discount, but charges extra for the added cost.

For years, the City of Phoenix water bills would be coded wrong once or twice a year. A minimum extra 30 minutes to case, never mind the extra delivery time.

I've always wondered what the discount is for mail that's delivered to to the office, sequenced:
1) Alphabetically by street, and;
2) Numerically for EACH STREET

Better than no sort at all, but not much more.

I deliver an area which is all newer homes (and a few businesses) with HOAs. One of the worst months of the year, is when the HOAs send out the dues coupons. The letters are too big for DPS, so some go to FSS (and what a mess THAT is) and the rest come in DPS trays to be sorted and delivered. About 1000 addresses over a couple weeks. The postage on those letters is not more than the normal weight cost.

How much more difficult is it to deliver mags and catalogs wrapped in plastic? They stick together. A lot of times they don't go through FSS but get sent to the office. A lot of times, the address print is so small an eagle needs glasses to read it. Do we charge extra for that?

I constantly make the point. The PO UNDERCHARGES. Multiply that by BILLIONS of pieces a year, and you see what we leave on the table, on the floor, in the street.


Include in your loss of revenue unchecked "click and ship" and commercial postage.

I know a carrier (destanation) that noticed a used book store using "flat rate envelope" rate for a "regional a" box. How many times have they cheated the PO.

A few years back someone was shorting us between 2 and 12 ounces on every package they sent. 30-50 a day. I think they were buying cloths from Goodwill or the Salvation Army and reselling them on ebay.
Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to
RodOrRob  
#32 Posted : Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:47:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Postalcarrier2018 Go to Quoted Post

I understand collecting postage due is the proper solution to this problem

Then do it

Originally Posted by: Postalcarrier2018 Go to Quoted Post
but even though it is not our fault nor the customers fault that the Amazon guy messed up, I don't think the customer would want to pay for postage because the Amazon delivery person delivered it to the wrong house.

Not being mean here, but your thoughts or feelings are irrelevant when it comes to another company doing something that is illegal.

Originally Posted by: Postalcarrier2018 Go to Quoted Post
Imagine going to the door and explaining that the package was delivered to the wrong house and now you owe this amount of money for me to give it to you? that wouldn't go too well I think.

Simply say, this is not ours, but it got into our mailstream, so we need to collect postage. They can refuse it or pay it, it's up to them.

Originally Posted by: Postalcarrier2018 Go to Quoted Post
I'm sure Amazon is already having a lot of complaints about their delivery service.

Not our problem. I've heard when it gets back to Amazon, that carrier is written up...3 write-ups, they are terminated.

WorkingTitle3484  
#33 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:16:55 AM(UTC)
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Postalcarrier2018 wrote:

I deliver to a mounted route and I see all kinds of problems...

1. They use the curbside mail box....a lot of times I open the mail box and there is an Amazon package in there, so if I have a package that would normally fit in the box, now it doesn't fit. I have even seen instances where the Amazon package barely fits the mailbox itself and now there is barely any more room for the mail especially on 3rd bundle days.

2. They mis-deliver the packages....sometimes I open the mail box with the flag up, for example, 1 smith street...and there is an Amazon package in there for 18 smith street or some other address...I know we all make mistakes but what is the correct procedure here? What would you do?

3. I've seen this many times too...they are too lazy to deliver the package to the front door so they leave the package on top of the curbside mailbox....one time it was even raining out. Makes matters worse the customer at that house probably thinks we USPS did it...

These problems plus a few others just adds more work and stress to this job and I don't think there is much we can do about it...speak to the guy if we see him? They'll probably just tell us to "f off".....I don't think they are trained or Amazon even bothers to hold them accountable for what they do out there.


Great topic. I asked my station manager. She said to leave it. So I did. There are thousands of eyes out there, on doorbells, in windows, in cars, and sometimes in LLVs, waiting for you to screw up. Do you want to be brought in for a PD-waste of time to explain why you took a SPUR out of the mailbox? Management does not care if a problem does not affect them. They will if a customer complains therefore making your life hell. I do the job the right way...being that I only want to hear "What time are you coming back with this split/piece/pivot?" from management. So far, so good.

Edited by user Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:20:50 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Quote:
Punch in, do the work, punch out, go home. In other words, get paid. Anything else is silly BS.
mnmailman  
#34 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:19:12 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: WorkingTitle3484 Go to Quoted Post
Postalcarrier2018 wrote:

I deliver to a mounted route and I see all kinds of problems...

1. They use the curbside mail box....a lot of times I open the mail box and there is an Amazon package in there, so if I have a package that would normally fit in the box, now it doesn't fit. I have even seen instances where the Amazon package barely fits the mailbox itself and now there is barely any more room for the mail especially on 3rd bundle days.

2. They mis-deliver the packages....sometimes I open the mail box with the flag up, for example, 1 smith street...and there is an Amazon package in there for 18 smith street or some other address...I know we all make mistakes but what is the correct procedure here? What would you do?

3. I've seen this many times too...they are too lazy to deliver the package to the front door so they leave the package on top of the curbside mailbox....one time it was even raining out. Makes matters worse the customer at that house probably thinks we USPS did it...

These problems plus a few others just adds more work and stress to this job and I don't think there is much we can do about it...speak to the guy if we see him? They'll probably just tell us to "f off".....I don't think they are trained or Amazon even bothers to hold them accountable for what they do out there.


Great topic. I asked my station manager. She said to leave it. So I did. There are thousands of eyes out there, on doorbells, in windows, in cars, and sometimes in LLVs, waiting for you to screw up. Do you want to be brought in for a PD-waste of time to explain why you took a SPUR out of the mailbox? Management does not care if a problem does not affect them. They will if a customer complains therefore making your life hell. I do the job the right way...being that I only want to hear "What time are you coming back with this split/piece/pivot?" from management. So far, so good.


yeah

anyone thinking customer complaints

will affect postal mgmt. in any way

is going to be disappointed

<g>
Question authority.
WorkingTitle3484  
#35 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:23:12 AM(UTC)
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mnmailman wrote:



yeah

anyone thinking customer complaints

will affect postal mgmt. in any way

is going to be disappointed

<g>



Good point. The good managers, although rare, do care...especially when there's video evidence. Then, they care a whole lot...during a PDI. They turn into Public Relations Customer Service Superstars (PRCSS...tee hee...gotta add a K somehow...) if there's a tape. However, I agree with you. 95%...nope, all of them don't give a damn if it's not coming from above.

Edited by user Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:39:44 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Quote:
Punch in, do the work, punch out, go home. In other words, get paid. Anything else is silly BS.
NEmailman  
#36 Posted : Thursday, February 15, 2018 6:43:39 PM(UTC)
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I had an Amazon package that was wrongly delivered to one of my customer's mailbox. I did not want to take it out because there are cameras everywhere now and I didn't want to be accused of stealing a package. The package should have been delivered two doors down the street. I left a note in the customer's mailbox whose address was on the package and where he could find his package. I saw him the next day and he thanked me and told me he saw the picture of the delivery location and knew it wasn't his mailbox.
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