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someoldguy  
#61 Posted : Thursday, September 06, 2018 3:29:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: swiftfox Go to Quoted Post
Just an update that I got an FJO, finally. But it's for CI, not Analysis. How would I go about finding out what is in this job description? I have no idea other than a branch and position title and would like to know more. Is it appropriate to ask for the job description?

Congrats, I think you will like CI and in a little while you will forget all about analysis :)

Your first task after completing training will be to open up an investigation on Kaliino :) Or should I say, another investigation, as there are no doubt several already in progress from various angles, not the least of which is a disturbing tendency to want to stalk new hires as they arrive for Touchstone. And there have also been certain allegations about improper personal use of cleaning supplies.

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someoldguy  
#62 Posted : Saturday, September 08, 2018 4:54:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TMHTE Go to Quoted Post
The "CI Officer" FJO refers to referent, CI ops support, CI investigator (not to be confused with criminal investigator, which is DIA police), technician, embedded agent, or CI analyst (this one puts you in the analyst career field but can be obtained by receiving a CJO for CI/Transnational analyst or CI agent).

Some people in the Analyst Career Field who are working CI have the job title "Counterintelligence Officer" but they are definitely not CI agents. They have a "career specialty" of CI/Transnational as TMHTE says.

These folks might have an inside track on getting a seat in CI Agent training, especially if they are stationed at Quantico and get a chance to fill a last minute vacancy.


DISCLAIMER: You read it on an open internet forum :)
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ringslider on 9/8/2018(UTC)
Chevy82  
#63 Posted : Saturday, September 08, 2018 7:25:02 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kaliino Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TMHTE Go to Quoted Post
The "CI Officer" FJO refers to referent, CI ops support, CI investigator (not to be confused with criminal investigator, which is DIA police), technician, embedded agent, or CI analyst (this one puts you in the analyst career field but can be obtained by receiving a CJO for CI/Transnational analyst or CI agent). All work in the DO and have access to CI training, some specific to your function and others for the sake of career development.

The amount of disinformation provided in regards to the Counterintelligence Career Field on this forum is almost unbearable.

There is a clear distinction between a CI Agent and CI Analyst in DIA. Both positions have their own skills and responsibilities.



Counterintelligence Career Field - CI Agent Career Specialty

"Officers in this specialty leverage core CI functions to execute and conduct activities to identify, deceive, exploit, disrupt, or protect against espionage, other intelligence activities, sabotage, or assassinations conducted for or on behalf of foreign powers, organizations, or persons, or their agents, or international terrorist organizations or activities. CI Agent roles include Embedded Agent, Referent, Case Officer, Collection, Credibility Assessment, Technical Surveillance Countermeasures, and Investigator."

There are also significant differences between the various "positions" within the CI Agent Career Specialty. After graduation from the Defense CI Agent Course (DCAC) in Quantico, VA... you can technically plug-n-play a CI Referent into a CI Investigator position, but it would not be a wise decision. The role of a CI Referent is to provide CI support to clandestine HUMINT activities. Translation: They work closely with HUMINT officers in order to detect and identify any CI threats that the clandestine sources may experience during their work with DIA case officers. Embedded Agents are almost identical to CI Referents, except that they focus on providing CI support to overt HUMINT activities and are responsible for providing CI awareness to the rest of DIA's workforce. CI "case officers" are responsible for conducting offensive CI operations (OFCO)... aka pitching foreign intelligence entities (FIE) into becoming double agents. CI Collectors are similar to CI "case officers" except that they focus on establishing a source network capable of reporting on FIE activities, rather than making direct contact with them. For the most part... CI collection is the use of Counterintelligence Force Protection Source Operations (CFSO), conducted in tactical environments (Afghanistan). TSCM Agents provide technical support (finding bugs) to HUMINT activities, in opposition to the support (hiding bugs) provided by the Office of Technical Operations (OTO). CI Investigators provide support to the Insider Threat folks who work in the Security Career Field.



Analysis Career Field - Counterintelligence/Transnational Career Specialty

"Analysts have the most diverse target set. These specialists assess all-source data on a wide-range of foreign activities that cross international borders. Such activities include foreign intelligence threats to US military forces, facilities and activities, as well as foreign illicit transnational networks and activities related to terrorism, insurgency, weapons proliferation, drugs, piracy, and human trafficking."

CI Analysts are first and foremost... analysts. They conduct the same analysis and production activities that any other analyst would perform in any of the other career specialties. The difference is that instead of reading reports on Syria's political leadership or DPRK's nuclear capabilities... CI analysts focus on compiling information in relation to FIE activities. For example, there are multiple countries around the world which have fallen victim to proxy wars... largely due to the involvement of third-party governments. These governments *cough* CHINA *cough* conduct their own collection activities in an attempt to influence the environment in order to establish or strengthen their own interests. Any time that FIE activity is detected... it becomes of value to the CI Analyst. The customer of a CI Analyst... is mostly CI Agents, which is why I suspect so many are under the impression that there is a lot of cross-over.



Moral of this story... make sure you know what the ***** your job is going to be BEFORE you accept a final offer.


Nothing TMHTE or Someoldguy said is false or conflicts with this info. It’s not disinformation or misinformation at all.
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ringslider on 9/8/2018(UTC)
Chevy82  
#64 Posted : Saturday, September 08, 2018 8:30:25 AM(UTC)
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I happen to know for a fact that what you are saying is explicitly false. I’d be happy to correct you in the workplace and prove it.
Strongman 265  
#65 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2018 4:13:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TMHTE Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: swiftfox Go to Quoted Post
Odds are you won't really find out what you'll be doing until you're at Touchstone.



I would suggest reaching out to the hiring manager which bid on you - introduce yourself to them, your branch chief, and team lead, well before Touchstone. If you already work in the IC reach out to them via TSVOIP and get the straight skinny on the position and your duties. I went down on a househunting trip and sent a perm cert so I could meet them in person and meet the team well prior to my EOD. Additionally, ask about reading lists and topics of interest. Be proactive.

And remember, this is the IC - your position description means little. Semper Gumby!

Edited by user Tuesday, September 11, 2018 4:14:25 AM(UTC)  | Reason: I suck at HTML

weekendwarrior57  
#66 Posted : Tuesday, September 25, 2018 1:23:57 PM(UTC)
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In a similar situation here. I accepted the FJO sent to me a couple weeks ago and since then have been trying to find out which division/section/problem set I will be working on. After accepting (informally, no paperwork has been signed outside of CJO), the HR rep informed me of the division I'd be with. Won't post what it is here, but trust me in that it is incredibly boring based on my research. If I had to list all the divisions at DIA from most to least favorable, this one would not have even been on the list.

Bottom line: worth taking? Should I push back to HR rep and ask if there are other openings in the same field/office? Could really use some guidance from random internet strangers right about now.
rebels8  
#67 Posted : Tuesday, September 25, 2018 1:27:40 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: weekendwarrior57 Go to Quoted Post
In a similar situation here. I accepted the FJO sent to me a couple weeks ago and since then have been trying to find out which division/section/problem set I will be working on. After accepting (informally, no paperwork has been signed outside of CJO), the HR rep informed me of the division I'd be with. Won't post what it is here, but trust me in that it is incredibly boring based on my research. If I had to list all the divisions at DIA from most to least favorable, this one would not have even been on the list.

Bottom line: worth taking? Should I push back to HR rep and ask if there are other openings in the same field/office? Could really use some guidance from random internet strangers right about now.


What's your career field?
#MMlivesmatter
weekendwarrior57  
#68 Posted : Tuesday, September 25, 2018 1:39:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rebels8 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: weekendwarrior57 Go to Quoted Post
In a similar situation here. I accepted the FJO sent to me a couple weeks ago and since then have been trying to find out which division/section/problem set I will be working on. After accepting (informally, no paperwork has been signed outside of CJO), the HR rep informed me of the division I'd be with. Won't post what it is here, but trust me in that it is incredibly boring based on my research. If I had to list all the divisions at DIA from most to least favorable, this one would not have even been on the list.

Bottom line: worth taking? Should I push back to HR rep and ask if there are other openings in the same field/office? Could really use some guidance from random internet strangers right about now.


What's your career field?


Analysis
someoldguy  
#69 Posted : Tuesday, September 25, 2018 3:29:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: weekendwarrior57 Go to Quoted Post
Bottom line: worth taking? Should I push back to HR rep and ask if there are other openings in the same field/office? Could really use some guidance from random internet strangers right about now.

Go ahead and take it. You really don't know for sure what you'll end up doing. Your first couple of years you will be wandering in the darkness anyway and you'll be learning the ropes in any job you start with.

There's no guarantee you can pick out anything that will definitely be better.

That is an opinion from an internet stranger. Stranger than most :) Except Kali, I'm pretty sure. And I'm relieved to say I disagree with him on this one. I really hate it when I agree with him, but every once in a while he gets one right.

DISCLAIMER: You read it on an open internet forum :)
madman21  
#70 Posted : Tuesday, September 25, 2018 6:54:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: weekendwarrior57 Go to Quoted Post
Bottom line: worth taking? Should I push back to HR rep and ask if there are other openings in the same field/office? Could really use some guidance from random internet strangers right about now.

Go ahead and take it. You really don't know for sure what you'll end up doing. Your first couple of years you will be wandering in the darkness anyway and you'll be learning the ropes in any job you start with.

There's no guarantee you can pick out anything that will definitely be better.

That is an opinion from an internet stranger. Stranger than most :) Except Kali, I'm pretty sure. And I'm relieved to say I disagree with him on this one. I really hate it when I agree with him, but every once in a while he gets one right.



I actually agree with.....BOTH Kali and OldGuy. If it's something you don't want to do and you have another option, decline. Maybe they'll call you with another offer in the future. Now if you're unemployed, take it. No one says you have to stay, you're employed at will, quit if/when you find something better. OldGuy is right, your first few months (at least) will be spent learning....which is probably just as boring. I was once in a training class and literally almost stabbed myself with my pen just for the adrenaline rush...it was brutal. Now, my particular career field and billet are super cool, and nowhere near boring, so I'm happy I took the gig (not so much the pay cut). Mobility is very much encouraged. Do your job well, make use of the resources afforded to you, and you could be on your way to the gig you want after your 2 years fly by. Last option, take that clearance and go work for a contractor and wonder how long you'll actually work there before you're laid off.
Chevy82  
#71 Posted : Tuesday, September 25, 2018 7:27:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: madman21 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: weekendwarrior57 Go to Quoted Post
Bottom line: worth taking? Should I push back to HR rep and ask if there are other openings in the same field/office? Could really use some guidance from random internet strangers right about now.

Go ahead and take it. You really don't know for sure what you'll end up doing. Your first couple of years you will be wandering in the darkness anyway and you'll be learning the ropes in any job you start with.

There's no guarantee you can pick out anything that will definitely be better.

That is an opinion from an internet stranger. Stranger than most :) Except Kali, I'm pretty sure. And I'm relieved to say I disagree with him on this one. I really hate it when I agree with him, but every once in a while he gets one right.



I actually agree with.....BOTH Kali and OldGuy. If it's something you don't want to do and you have another option, decline. Maybe they'll call you with another offer in the future. Now if you're unemployed, take it. No one says you have to stay, you're employed at will, quit if/when you find something better. OldGuy is right, your first few months (at least) will be spent learning....which is probably just as boring. I was once in a training class and literally almost stabbed myself with my pen just for the adrenaline rush...it was brutal. Now, my particular career field and billet are super cool, and nowhere near boring, so I'm happy I took the gig (not so much the pay cut). Mobility is very much encouraged. Do your job well, make use of the resources afforded to you, and you could be on your way to the gig you want after your 2 years fly by. Last option, take that clearance and go work for a contractor and wonder how long you'll actually work there before you're laid off.


True story.

I’m a contractor now, and lots of people are losing their jobs this month due to a contract change. Fortunately, I am not one of those. I probably wouldn’t want to take an FJO for what I’m doing if I didn’t know what it was. Now that I’m doing it, it’s actually much cooler than I would have thought. DIA is full of opportunities, and most people I have met are good people, lots of experience, and willing to help you with anything you need.

If you’re employed and can afford to wait, go for it. That said, you may wait 8 weeks for another CJO. It might be 8 days. It could be 5 months. You just don’t know. If having a sexy Mission is important to you, fine. Say ***** it. Take your chances.

Let me leave you with this, though. You’re going to get a *****ty job at DIA you don’t like. Some how, some way. It happens in every organization in every job. Unless you’re extremely lucky, eventually you will take a job you don’t like.

So I would suck it up buttercup, and do the job you’re not so thrilled about FIRST. Why?

1- Get in the door and start knocking down the DCIPS probation time.

2- the first 2-3 months will be learning your job, getting computer access and systems knowledge, and your career field specific training. By the time it’s all done and you’re full speed working your job, it’s mostly out of the way.

3- You can start feeling around the opportunities internally to decide what you want your next move to be.

someoldguy  
#72 Posted : Wednesday, September 26, 2018 2:27:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: madman21 Go to Quoted Post
I was once in a training class and literally almost stabbed myself with my pen just for the adrenaline rush...it was brutal.

Were you in that class too? But it wasn't so bad, the class only lasted eight or nine weeks.
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Chevy82  
#73 Posted : Wednesday, September 26, 2018 3:50:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kaliino Go to Quoted Post
Do NOT accept a final job offer if you are NOT interested in the career field, position, or location. Everyone assumes they’ll be able to escape to greener pastures after the completion of their 2-year probation. Do NOT assume anything. Many an officer were slapped down in this year’s ACAP cycle.

Getting hired through the internal marketplace is even less reliable, because more people are allowed to compete for those vacancies. If you’re currently unemployed, waiting on DIA to save you, you already lost. If that’s the case, you need to accept whatever you get first. A guy’s gotta eat after all. With that being said... do NOT set yourself up for failure. You’ll have a difficult time surviving probation if you hate your first job. This is doubly true if the experience is so bad that it turns you off of remaining in DIA entirely.


I think it comes down to circumstances. I agree with K-money though. If you aren't hard up, working a job you hate sucks. But if you can't wait, a bird in the hand, man...NO guarantee the job you want will come later. I know someone here who got hired into a slot in one career field an expressed interest in another career field. 6 months after touchstone he was in that fields training pipeline. No, transition isn't easy.
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