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Chevy82  
#101 Posted : Friday, March 23, 2018 7:42:49 PM(UTC)
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Bottom line is this. You’re not a specialist in anything. There’s one Intelligence Officer series in the federal government. It’s 0132. If you’re 0132, you’re 0132. That’s why you can move. DIA is not special or different from anyone else in that regard. Unless your CJO is for finance, acquisition, HR, ETC, Analysis, MM, CI, HUMINT are all 0132.

Think in that mindset. You’re not changing anything. You’ll always be 0132. You’ll just be a 0132 in a different capacity.
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rebels8 on 3/23/2018(UTC)
DinnerOut  
#102 Posted : Saturday, March 24, 2018 4:28:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Chevy82 Go to Quoted Post
Bottom line is this. You’re not a specialist in anything. There’s one Intelligence Officer series in the federal government. It’s 0132. If you’re 0132, you’re 0132. That’s why you can move. DIA is not special or different from anyone else in that regard. Unless your CJO is for finance, acquisition, HR, ETC, Analysis, MM, CI, HUMINT are all 0132.

Think in that mindset. You’re not changing anything. You’ll always be 0132. You’ll just be a 0132 in a different capacity.


Not correct, the 0132 series is just that, a designation to distinguish pay, retirement and laws you’re covered under. 0132 is designated to a DHS Intelligence Analyst just as it is designated to HUMINT collectors in DIA. Two completely different jobs.

Also, it is different and special from any other intelligence agency. I’ll take CIA as an example again. If you’re hired as an Operations Officer, you will be and remain an Operations Officer. Just because it falls under the DO along with say a Collections Management Officer doesn’t mean that tomorrow when you return from your overseas tour you get put in as a CMO. No, you still remain an OO unless you choose to switch or detail over.

HUMINT at DIA has 3 different tracks(see link), each with its own sub billets except Clandestine. I can understand being hired under one track and put in any of the sub billets. If that’s what you’re saying, great. However, from what I gathered and what you’re saying you can be moved anywhere within HUMINT, which makes no sense at all.

http://www.dia.mil/Caree...reas/Human-Intelligence/

Edited by user Saturday, March 24, 2018 4:31:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

DinnerOut  
#103 Posted : Saturday, March 24, 2018 7:56:07 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TMHTE Go to Quoted Post
Indeed, DIA is a bit more (okay, a lot more) flexible with career paths whereas others aren't. On the DoD side, I know NCIS likes to put people somewhere for decades. Army, there's a lot more movement. DIA, I personally know an analyst who's doing an ACAP to a HUMINT billet.

Maybe it's an ego thing but I don't see the point in making the move over to CIA/DO. I mean, it certainly sounds more prestigious, but here's the reality of doing so:

1.) Horrible commute. Have you been to Langley? Now do that during rush hours, everyday. It's no picnic.

2.) 5 year probationary period. Already put time in the excepted service or served your country in combat zones? Too bad says the agency, you don't rate.

3.) Full scope poly. See #2.

4.) If you did the military/ctr thing, deployed to a lot of places, and already work in DIA/DO, why leave? You already have enough "cool guy/gal" points for a lifetime. No need to throw your career in upheaval to change that 'D' to a 'C.'

So yeah, if you wanna go for it then do it. Some of us like the non-divisive culture where 70% of the agency isn't gunning for only 10% of the jobs.


I agree with the cons you mentioned about CIA, except the commute. I don’t think it should be a deterrence considering if you join DO you would hope to go overseas.

As for CIA as Kaliino mentioned, due to the current budget at DIA and the fact that CIA has the authority for covert operations and lead in intelligence collection, it’s inevitible that DIA will play second fiddle. Hence, why I asked about DCS in the other thread and it was confirmed that it is nowhere on the same level as DO in CIA. So if you truly want to pursue a career in HUMINT, specifically a collector, you Hve to make a choice..

It’s hard to imagine CIA would allow mission creep by DIA. Just like the FBI is the lead counterterrorism and counterintelligence agency within the United States.

The only thing that saves DIA is that it falls under DOD and that it can use this umbrella for overseas intelligence collections on military issues.

I think the issue lie within the fact that after 9/11 the main focus was non-state actors. Moving forward, it’s become clear that the focus is shifting primarily back to state actors.


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rebels8 on 3/24/2018(UTC)
DinnerOut  
#104 Posted : Saturday, March 24, 2018 11:33:02 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TMHTE Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kaliino Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TMHTE Go to Quoted Post
Popularity and authority don't go hand in hand.

Popularity is still a major factor. Why did SEAL Team Six get the mission to kill UBL?

Why wasn't it someone else? How many special operations forces do we have again?

CIA has a lot of pull in this town. They get all the big cases for a reason.

Going back to DinnerOut, he's concerned with the opportunities in DIA.

Well... if you're "second rate", you have less opportunities.

Ask 1st ID how they feel about 82nd ABN or 5th SFG.

Those differences are very important too.


Because the compound happened to be in their AO. Were it in Delta's AO (which was operating there at the time), they might have been the executors, but it wasn't.

CIA gets strategic tasking because it is a strategic agency. The DoD has tactical, operational, and strategic requirements.

An infantry division isn't an airborne unit. One is suited for a different scale of operations than the other one, not just a more or less capable version.

I'm beginning to think your idea of how the government works comes mostly from Hollywood, heirarchical peepee measuring and all. Stories about cooperation and clear divisions of labor just aren't interesting I suppose.


I don’t know about that. I can tell you for fact agencies are very territorial of their “missions”. Mission creep is real and does create tensions. The tensions between the FBI and CIA for example go back to the Hoover days when he was completely opposed to its creation.

The creation of the ODNI was done specifically to reduce intelligence gaps and increase joint activities.

I can only imagine how CIA/DIA turf wars unfold overseas. I don’t think it’s hollywood at all personally. Throw in the ISA in the pot too. I recall reading an article a bit back about how their presence had ruffled some feathers..
Chevy82  
#105 Posted : Saturday, March 24, 2018 5:53:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kaliino Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DinnerOut Go to Quoted Post
As for CIA as Kaliino mentioned, due to the current budget at DIA and the fact that CIA has the authority for covert operations and lead in intelligence collection, it’s inevitible that DIA will play second fiddle. Hence, why I asked about DCS in the other thread and it was confirmed that it is nowhere on the same level as DO in CIA. So if you truly want to pursue a career in HUMINT, specifically a collector, you have to make a choice.

Here's another example to push the message home:

Imagine a house, somewhere in an urban environment, suspected to be occupied by "bad guys", who previously robbed a bank. You're a FBI Special Agent, because let's be honest... FBI has the best movies. Well, you can't just raid the house, because you're the "good guy" and need evidence. Fast forward. Ryan Phillipe is outside conducting surveillance. Keanu Reeves is surfing with the babes. Jason Statham is chasing Jet Li across rooftops. etc. Alright. Evidence acquired. Now it's time to call in the SWAT Team. Which SWAT team? The FBI SWAT Team? The FBI Hostage Rescue Team? The municipal police SWAT Team? It depends on who the "bad guys" are and whether or not you have coordinated with local/state law environment. Well, let's say you didn't coordinate with anyone... "because we're the Bureau, and the Bureau knows all. Cooperation is counter-operational". Now the time has come, the call is made, doors are breached, flash bangs are deployed. After the smoke clears, we learn that the "bad guys" were not the bank robbers we suspected, but instead belong to a South American drug cartel, with homemade explosives in the basement, and illegal immigrants zip-tied in the guest bedroom, and by the way... the house was purchased from an overseas account, linked to the Russian SVR.

Let's break this all down numerically. 1) bank robbery (FBI), 2) drug cartel (DEA), 3) explosives (ATF), 4) immigrants (ICE), Russians (CIA). OK. So... who has the lead? You might be thinking that FBI gets priority because they were the ones who raided the house. Maybe. It depends on how persuasive each organization is in making the case for why they should get it instead. Situations like this are also highly political in nature so if someone plays golf with someone important, then their odds increase. My point to this whole scenario is that overlap is BAD. It complicates matters and causes internal conflict and everlasting grudges among the *****ing community. You don't want FBI and DEA playing tug-a-war with a drug cartel. You want the drug cartel to be dead, gone, and buried. Isn't that suppose to be the point of all this? Isn't that the function of law enforcement? To mitigate the amount of times that it's broken?

Now apply this situation to Intelligence. Intelligence is collected, analyzed, and disseminated, in order to INFORM. Allegedly, we're the ones responsible for making sure that others know what the ***** is going on, who is doing it, how they're doing it, where they're doing it, and more importantly... WHY they're doing it. Unfortunately... "reality is stranger than fiction sometimes". It's politically correct to issue bull***** statements like, "there are misconceptions in the media and public about the DIA–CIA rivalry, the two agencies have a mutually beneficial relationship and division of labor". *SPOILER ALERT* There is a massive DIA-CIA rivalry because some ***** decided that it would be good for both agencies to be responsible for the collection of HUMINT. You don't see NSA fighting with NGA over work. Why not? There are only so many people with the placement and access necessary to answer collection requirements. Every organization has their own agenda. Every individual within those organizations has their own agenda. I encountered this first hand while deployed. I had to constantly kick Army CI, NCIS, AFOSI, SOF, and whoever else in the nuts, in order to maintain control of my sources and personally contribute to the war. Why was it so important that I was the one to handle them? Because I had my own chain-of-command who wanted to say "we produced X amount of reports this quarter", who were more than happy to kick me in the nuts if I failed to meet their arbitrary quota.

The Intelligence Community is a highly-competitive industry. Everyone fights everyone else for assignments, promotions, funding, authority, etc. The corporate world likes to think of themselves as cut-throat... but really, I'd like to see them survive in our world for an extended period of time. Someone should write a book about it. No. People don't read books anymore. Someone should make a big-budget Hollywood production about it instead, and cast Dwayne Johnson as the protagonist and Margot Robbie as the love interest. Then the whole world would see it and maybe, just maybe... someone would decide that the system could benefit from a few more updates.


The corporate world is absolutely cut throat. More so than government. I assure you of that. You don’t know what cut throat is until you meet your boss for coffee and find out you’re getting fired. Or you get the call while you’re on vacation that you’ve been relocated. Or that you’re offered a promotion to a department that is getting unilaterally cut and everyone will be fired without severance.

Versus government? Please. Once you’re a GS, you can take your GS status to another department or agency.

Have you ever worked in corporate America? It’s not a cake walk. It’s not it’s own struggles. Plenty if not very many military folks wouldn’t last long at all because the culture is so different.
Chevy82  
#106 Posted : Saturday, March 24, 2018 7:17:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kaliino Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Chevy82 Go to Quoted Post
The corporate world is absolutely cut throat. More so than government. I assure you of that. You don’t know what cut throat is until you meet your boss for coffee and find out you’re getting fired. Or you get the call while you’re on vacation that you’ve been relocated. Or that you’re offered a promotion to a department that is getting unilaterally cut and everyone will be fired without severance.

Versus government? Please. Once you’re a GS, you can take your GS status to another department or agency.

Have you ever worked in corporate America? It’s not a cake walk. It’s not it’s own struggles. Plenty if not very many military folks wouldn’t last long at all because the culture is so different.

I had a feeling that would get a rise out of him, lol.

"It's fun to be right." - Al Pacino, Devil's Advocate (1997)


Lol it did. Because it’s true. In no government organization will you wake up jobless because someone doesn’t like you. Without a paper trail, the best one can do is ***** with you.

Corporate America you are always at will. You can always be fired. Unless you’re Union.
someoldguy  
#107 Posted : Sunday, March 25, 2018 5:49:52 AM(UTC)
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I don't know... there have been a few scattered reports of people being let go during their probationary period.
DISCLAIMER: You read it on an open internet forum :)
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rebels8 on 3/25/2018(UTC)
Chevy82  
#108 Posted : Sunday, March 25, 2018 5:52:48 AM(UTC)
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Two years is a lot of time to mess something up. Did anyone say why they were let go?
rebels8  
#109 Posted : Sunday, March 25, 2018 5:59:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kaliino Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Chevy82 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: someoldguy Go to Quoted Post
I don't know... there have been a few scattered reports of people being let go during their probationary period.

Two years is a lot of time to mess something up. Did anyone say why they were let go?

I just keep meeting people who decide to quit. Met two more last week, lol.



What's the most common reason or reasons that people you meet decide to quit?
#MMlivesmatter
someoldguy  
#110 Posted : Sunday, March 25, 2018 6:20:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Chevy82 Go to Quoted Post
Two years is a lot of time to mess something up. Did anyone say why they were let go?

I don't know, you hear some details but there could always be more to the story. I thought I read one story on here a few months back and I heard some rumblings about somebody at another location who was let go in their first year.

However we can confirm that there are people who don't make it through their probationary period. I think it is a small number but it does happen.
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rebels8 on 3/25/2018(UTC)
rebels8  
#111 Posted : Sunday, March 25, 2018 7:31:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kaliino Go to Quoted Post


It's also common for both hiring managers and HR to commit false advertising.

UX1192 is not alone in being told that his job would be something that it's not.


And it's not just DIA that does this. It's other parts of DoD as well, including contractors. My current job is a prime example of this, which is the reason that I've accepted another much better job.
#MMlivesmatter
Gujjar  
#112 Posted : Friday, April 06, 2018 1:58:54 PM(UTC)
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I just want to thank everyone who contributed to this topic because I learned a lot. I finally got a call, waiting for my FJO.
Contractor2Fed  
#113 Posted : Thursday, June 21, 2018 2:16:03 AM(UTC)
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Does anyone know what time the L’Enfant shuttle starts running in the morning? How often it is supposed to run? Does it stop at DIAC or somewhere else on base and then you walk? Does it go throughout the day or only during the morning and evening rush hours?

Alternatively, if driving, is there a shuttle from the parking lot to the building or do you walk?
velcroTech  
#114 Posted : Thursday, June 21, 2018 4:49:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Contractor2Fed Go to Quoted Post
Does anyone know what time the L’Enfant shuttle starts running in the morning? How often it is supposed to run? Does it stop at DIAC or somewhere else on base and then you walk? Does it go throughout the day or only during the morning and evening rush hours?

Alternatively, if driving, is there a shuttle from the parking lot to the building or do you walk?


Nice try ISIS.
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Chevy82 on 6/21/2018(UTC)
Contractor2Fed  
#115 Posted : Thursday, June 21, 2018 7:29:10 AM(UTC)
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Lol, hardly. But I am looking at having to buy a car if the shuttle can’t get me there by the 6am start time the hiring manager mentioned...
someoldguy  
#116 Posted : Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:29:29 PM(UTC)
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If you will be starting at 6AM the shuttle might not be such a great option... but the traffic is not as bad at that time of day and you should be able to get a killer parking spot :)
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Contractor2Fed on 6/22/2018(UTC)
UX1192  
#117 Posted : Thursday, June 21, 2018 1:12:29 PM(UTC)
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People always complain about parking but I've never had trouble finding a spot or have had to walk more than 5 minutes and I work from 10-6.
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Contractor2Fed on 6/22/2018(UTC)
Chevy82  
#118 Posted : Thursday, June 21, 2018 2:29:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: UX1192 Go to Quoted Post
People always complain about parking but I've never had trouble finding a spot or have had to walk more than 5 minutes and I work from 10-6.


Based on what I've seen on many of the GS employees, they could use the walk.
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